After reading "Storm Tactics", I want to try to rig up a para anchor the way the Pardey's suggest in order to lie-to it. They say to attach the para-anchor line to the windlass and run it through a snatch block near the bow of the boat. Also attach a pennant line to the sheet winch near the stern and run the para-anchor line through a snatch block which is attached to the pennant line. This will hold the para anchor at about a 45 degre angle to the boat. My questions: (1) For a 36 foot boat (Catalina), what size blocks would be advisable, or put another way, how much weight should each of the blocks be rated for? (2)Does the block through which the para-anchor line runs have to be a snatch block? (They're pretty expensive.) (3)Would this block have to be fixed to the deck or could it just be attached to the cleat up at the bow? (If it has to be fixed to the deck, then this means I'd have to have two- one for each side of the boat.)
block size?
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Not sure but
I have some extra snatch blocks from my ericson 35 I could sell you for much less than new. They were going to go on ebay but I would much rather sell to someone on the list. Let me know by clicking on my name and selecting email owner. Tim R.
I have some extra snatch blocks from my ericson 35 I could sell you for much less than new. They were going to go on ebay but I would much rather sell to someone on the list. Let me know by clicking on my name and selecting email owner. Tim R.
matching blocks to line
Yes, that's my other question - what size line would I need, or in other words, what weight should it be rated at? It seems to me that the block at the bow of the boat would be taking a lot more weight than the snatch block attached to the pennant line. Is this right?
Yes, that's my other question - what size line would I need, or in other words, what weight should it be rated at? It seems to me that the block at the bow of the boat would be taking a lot more weight than the snatch block attached to the pennant line. Is this right?
John
You can expect a force of 13,000 to 14,000 pounds with your boat so 3/4 inch nylon is not unreasonable. All the best, Robert Gainer
You can expect a force of 13,000 to 14,000 pounds with your boat so 3/4 inch nylon is not unreasonable. All the best, Robert Gainer
What size para anchor do you plan on?
You boat must weigh 6-9 tons. Probably the folks that sell the para anchors have a formula that you can use to calculate these values . You won't be happy if you have a line part and you lose the anchor. Nothing too strong ever broke. As I recall from the book Larry used about 600 feet of line. That will fill a drum about 2 feet in diameter and about 20 inches long with 3/4 inch line.
You boat must weigh 6-9 tons. Probably the folks that sell the para anchors have a formula that you can use to calculate these values . You won't be happy if you have a line part and you lose the anchor. Nothing too strong ever broke. As I recall from the book Larry used about 600 feet of line. That will fill a drum about 2 feet in diameter and about 20 inches long with 3/4 inch line.
pennant line
Okay, 3/4 line for the para anchor line it is, and I'll have to get a block of equivalent strenght for the bow. I was thinking, actually, of figuring out a way to fix bolt holes (secured below by a large plate) on either side of the bow so that I could remove the block and attach it on one side or the other as the conditions dictate. How about the pennant line? It seems to me that this will be taking considerably less stress. Would half inch line be sufficient, along with a snatch block rated at 5,000 lbs? John PS. And as always, thanks so much to those who give their expertise here.
Okay, 3/4 line for the para anchor line it is, and I'll have to get a block of equivalent strenght for the bow. I was thinking, actually, of figuring out a way to fix bolt holes (secured below by a large plate) on either side of the bow so that I could remove the block and attach it on one side or the other as the conditions dictate. How about the pennant line? It seems to me that this will be taking considerably less stress. Would half inch line be sufficient, along with a snatch block rated at 5,000 lbs? John PS. And as always, thanks so much to those who give their expertise here.
You should have both lines the same size
You should have both lines the same size. It provides redundancy and makes deploying things easier. Besides if you drop the primary line for any numbers of reasons, ranging from chafe to mistakes, you don’t want to lose the rig because the new primary line is undersized do you. All the best, Robert Gainer
You should have both lines the same size. It provides redundancy and makes deploying things easier. Besides if you drop the primary line for any numbers of reasons, ranging from chafe to mistakes, you don’t want to lose the rig because the new primary line is undersized do you. All the best, Robert Gainer
same size line
No wanting to argue with those who know a lot more than I do, but as to same size lines for para anchor line and pennant line: If the para anchor line parts, then I'll lose the para anchor no matter what. What the Pardey's call a "pennant line" is a short line from the sheet winch to a snatch block. The para anchor line goes through the snatch block, so the pennant line wouldn't hold the para-anchor. AS the Pardey's diagram it, the purpose of this pennant line is to hold the para anchor at about a 45 degree angle from the boat. As I said, it seems to me that this line would have a lot less weight on it. As others on this list probably know better than I do, the weight bearing capacity of the snatch block has a lot to do with the price of these blocks. (Incidentally, 3/4 inch line is recommended on this thread, but I've only seen snatch blocks for up to 5/8 line at West Marine.)
No wanting to argue with those who know a lot more than I do, but as to same size lines for para anchor line and pennant line: If the para anchor line parts, then I'll lose the para anchor no matter what. What the Pardey's call a "pennant line" is a short line from the sheet winch to a snatch block. The para anchor line goes through the snatch block, so the pennant line wouldn't hold the para-anchor. AS the Pardey's diagram it, the purpose of this pennant line is to hold the para anchor at about a 45 degree angle from the boat. As I said, it seems to me that this line would have a lot less weight on it. As others on this list probably know better than I do, the weight bearing capacity of the snatch block has a lot to do with the price of these blocks. (Incidentally, 3/4 inch line is recommended on this thread, but I've only seen snatch blocks for up to 5/8 line at West Marine.)
You may be right
You may be right and I am not familiar with how they rig it. As you describe it the “pennant” would take substantially less strain then the main line. But a spare anchor line is more useful if its 3/4 inch on your boat instead of a lighter line so in the interest of redundancy I would still use 3/4 inch. But that’s just me. A better question is would I rig it the way you describe it? While I have a lot of respect for their skills and experience I would not put a snatch block on such a heavily stressed main line. Chafe is a killer in a situation like this and a failure of the main line might lead to a snatch block snapping back with all the stored energy in the nylon line. Something like that will kill you or put a hole in a port if the block found a target. But we have gone round and round on this before and I think my feelings about drag devices and traditional boats are now well known on this forum. And of course I would not want to be caught out in anything very extreme on your boat so having the system you are considering is a waste at least if my admittedly limited experience is any guide. By the way my reason to avoid extreme weather with your boat has to do with how the boat behaves under extreme condition while managed in a manner I find comfortable. It’s not a statement condemning your boat in particular but instead a statement praising a different style of boat entirely. All the best, Robert Gainer
You may be right and I am not familiar with how they rig it. As you describe it the “pennant” would take substantially less strain then the main line. But a spare anchor line is more useful if its 3/4 inch on your boat instead of a lighter line so in the interest of redundancy I would still use 3/4 inch. But that’s just me. A better question is would I rig it the way you describe it? While I have a lot of respect for their skills and experience I would not put a snatch block on such a heavily stressed main line. Chafe is a killer in a situation like this and a failure of the main line might lead to a snatch block snapping back with all the stored energy in the nylon line. Something like that will kill you or put a hole in a port if the block found a target. But we have gone round and round on this before and I think my feelings about drag devices and traditional boats are now well known on this forum. And of course I would not want to be caught out in anything very extreme on your boat so having the system you are considering is a waste at least if my admittedly limited experience is any guide. By the way my reason to avoid extreme weather with your boat has to do with how the boat behaves under extreme condition while managed in a manner I find comfortable. It’s not a statement condemning your boat in particular but instead a statement praising a different style of boat entirely. All the best, Robert Gainer
Every question...
Every question has an answer, and every answer has another question it leads to. So, to Robert Gainer: I understand that the design of all boats represents certain compromises - "liveability", speed, maneuverability, sea worthiness, etc. My understanding of the C36 is that it is considered a coastal cruiser, but not a blue water cruiser. I assume this is more or less what you're referring to. Is this right? So, in a boat of the 36-42' size, what boats do you (or others with more experience than me) consider more adequate for blue water cruising? My understanding is that a full keel boat tends to be more "sea worthy" but has certain sailing disadvantages. Are there any fin keel boats which you would feel more comfortable in doing such sailing in? How about a Cat 40 or 42 (which I think Catalina considers to be blue water cruisers)? Thanks.
Every question has an answer, and every answer has another question it leads to. So, to Robert Gainer: I understand that the design of all boats represents certain compromises - "liveability", speed, maneuverability, sea worthiness, etc. My understanding of the C36 is that it is considered a coastal cruiser, but not a blue water cruiser. I assume this is more or less what you're referring to. Is this right? So, in a boat of the 36-42' size, what boats do you (or others with more experience than me) consider more adequate for blue water cruising? My understanding is that a full keel boat tends to be more "sea worthy" but has certain sailing disadvantages. Are there any fin keel boats which you would feel more comfortable in doing such sailing in? How about a Cat 40 or 42 (which I think Catalina considers to be blue water cruisers)? Thanks.
Fatty Goodlander article
There was an interesting article in the Nov 2007 "Cruising World" by Cpt. Fatty Goodlander on his experience setting a sea anchor with some interesting lessons learned, and one of them was not to underestimate the force on a sea anchor rode, and the difficulty retrieving it. He specifically mentioned that he should have run it to the cockpit winch, and once it was out, that was tough to change. The first configuration you mention, with the line from the bow, and the snatch block and pennant to the cockpit winch would assist in the situation Cpt Fatty described - sea anchor already deployed from the bow, and in that case a snatch block would be a requirement. The second alternative (main line from the cockpit winch, pennant and block from the bow) would need a snatch block to allow setting this up without first having to go to the bitter end of the line in a storm situation. So a snatch block might be a worthwhile investment if you expect that you may be encountering this sort of condition. Note - this advice is from an inshore cruiser who is not likely to set a storm anchor, so take it for what its worth.
There was an interesting article in the Nov 2007 "Cruising World" by Cpt. Fatty Goodlander on his experience setting a sea anchor with some interesting lessons learned, and one of them was not to underestimate the force on a sea anchor rode, and the difficulty retrieving it. He specifically mentioned that he should have run it to the cockpit winch, and once it was out, that was tough to change. The first configuration you mention, with the line from the bow, and the snatch block and pennant to the cockpit winch would assist in the situation Cpt Fatty described - sea anchor already deployed from the bow, and in that case a snatch block would be a requirement. The second alternative (main line from the cockpit winch, pennant and block from the bow) would need a snatch block to allow setting this up without first having to go to the bitter end of the line in a storm situation. So a snatch block might be a worthwhile investment if you expect that you may be encountering this sort of condition. Note - this advice is from an inshore cruiser who is not likely to set a storm anchor, so take it for what its worth.
Cruising boat guide....
John, check the link below. John Neal has compiled a list of recommended cruising boats, along with a lengthy essay on what makes a good cruising boat. He ought to know, as he's been cruising and teaching others how to do it for several decades and several hundred thousand miles. How's this for a dream job: sail the world in your Hallberg-Rassey 46. Every few weeks you take on 6 crew, who are not only eager to learn and do your scut-work, but willing to pay about $2,000 each PER WEEK.... and they're booked up more than a year in advance! Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
John, check the link below. John Neal has compiled a list of recommended cruising boats, along with a lengthy essay on what makes a good cruising boat. He ought to know, as he's been cruising and teaching others how to do it for several decades and several hundred thousand miles. How's this for a dream job: sail the world in your Hallberg-Rassey 46. Every few weeks you take on 6 crew, who are not only eager to learn and do your scut-work, but willing to pay about $2,000 each PER WEEK.... and they're booked up more than a year in advance! Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
12k a week?
For 12 K a week I think I could handle a fair amount of puke...
45 weeks a month - leaving a bit of vacation time and you've just made over half a mil... Lord knows you could afford the paper towels!
For 12 K a week I think I could handle a fair amount of puke...
45 weeks a month - leaving a bit of vacation time and you've just made over half a mil... Lord knows you could afford the paper towels! - Status