Black Mold

[atwhite2]

Hello All,

Once the weather takes a turn for the warmer, I will be back up on my boat getting it ready for the all-too-short summer season in the north. One of the projects that I am looking at getting done prior to springtime launch is cleaning the black mold out of the inside.
I purchased my 1977 Tartan 30 2 years ago and have done a lot of surface cosmetic cleaning to make it look good on the outside, however if you stick your head into some of the interior access hatches and look at the space between the hull and the liner, there is a layer (albeit light) of black mold growing. I have looked into a few products that will help retard the growth of the black mold (tea tree oil is what I have settled on), but that does nothing to eliminate the already in place mold.
There are a lot of unreachable places that I can see where there is mold. I want to get rid of it, to have a clean slate before jumping on the preventative maintenance program.
Is there an effective way to clean these surfaces?
I had considered bringing aboard my power washer, but the wand won't make some of the bends and I was concerned what it would do to some of the electrical wires in those spaces. Also, I had read a few posts about tiles mold remover and wanted to see if there was any positive/negative experiences out there with that.
Last resort would be to just kill it and accept that the residual mold is there but not growing...not my favorite option.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Ken Cross]

Careful there. I understand that black mold can be hazardous if you breathe it in.

Several ways to deal with it: The one I use most often is simply a spray bottle of water with a teaspoon of bleach in it. The bleach kills mold and it's spores. It takes a couple of treatments. Just spray a light mist on and walk away. It doesn't need to be dripping wet.

Another option is to purchase an ozonator (google it) and close it up inside. The ozone however is not something you want to use while the area is occupied, But should work in heavy enough concentrations.

The thing I like about the bleach as it does help to eliminate the dark color from the mold over time and it's cheap. It can spray in areas that you can't reach. If you can reach it, just scrub it off with some (small amount of) bleach and mild detergent.

It can also be cleaned with borax, hydrogen peroxide, ammonia, Tea Tree Oil, and some say vinegar or baking soda.

Ken

 

[thinwater]

http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11249-1.html

"The two homemade spray formulas we tested each cost about one penny per ounce. Like the other mildew preventers in our test, you use these as cleaners by simply spraying the product on, wiping any excess away, and leaving it on. Before applying to any fabric, test the spray on an inconspicuous sample spot.

Formula A

1 quart hot water

1 tablespoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)

2 tablespoons washing soda (sodium carbonate)

2 tablespoons trisodium phosphate (TSP)

Much like Concrobium (which it is modeled after), our homemade Formula A removed the mildew from test carpet on board and kept it away, even though the area got wet again. It was also very effective in the moist-environment lab test.

Formula B

1 quart hot water

2 tablespoons baking soda

2 tablespoons Borax

1 tablespoon TSP

Formula B was the second-place performer in the liquid group. It was certainly the best value. It cleaned well, prevented mildew from returning to the carpet, and greatly slowed mildew infection in the moist-environment test in the lab."

 

[rgranger]

The bleach option is a good choice.... but labor intensive. The ozone option is a good choice if you choose to buy the unit. Open all interior hatches and let that run all winter and you will have no more mold.

But! it is a little know fact that naphthelene (mothballs) does an exceptional job of killing mold and mold spores. Place some mothballs in several jars and place those in those really nasty smelling small spaces and close up the boat for the winter. When spring comes, open the boat and let it air out a few days. You will have no more mold issues.

BTW: When I was in college I dated a girl who's dad had a Tartan 30. We sailed lake superior and it was a really awesome sail. Nice boat you have there.

 

[JamesG161]

I am a toxic black mold expert. Normally TOXIC black mold needs a constant water supply, where low toxicity mildew black mold survives on humidity.
The number one toxic mold remediation chemical is a special Borax.

It was certainly the best value. It cleaned well, prevented mildew from returning to the carpet, and greatly slowed mildew infection in the moist-environment test in the lab.

If you let the Borax solution dry and no rinse, you will stop future growth. If you have water intrusion, and not humidity, the Borax will slowly dissolve away and will need future treatments.

I would avoid harsh chemicals such as bleach, ozone, or acids that could damage wire insulation or wood surfaces on repeated use.

Formula B

Minus the baking soda, that would be my mold and iron stain remover. Why minus the soda? It acts to lower pH and buffer the water, the Borax and TSP do the same. You should want to add maybe 2 teaspoon of vinegar instead, to activate the Phosphate.
Borax is natures anti-fungal chemical.
Jim...

 

[JamesG161]

It acts to lower pH

Duh!!! I meant raise the pH. Vinegar lowers the pH.
Too much NFL football, chips and beer.. clouds the brain.
Jim..

 

[thinwater]

^^No, lower. You were right the first time. TSP has a very high pH, borax somewhat lower, and soda lowest of the three. The primary function of the soda is to lower the pH so that it is non-irritating if left on upholstered surfaces, and so that it will not affect paint, which TSP alone may.

Yes, the intention is that the solution is allowed to dry in place, without rinsing. Yes, borax is the primary active ingredient.

 

[DougM]

Let's get the pH numbers simplified a little bit:
Low pH numbers = acid. A pH of 7 is neutral. A number above 7 up to 14 is alkaline (base).
That said, if a pH is 1 its a really strong acid and if a pH is 14 its an extremely alkaline solution.
For the vinegar discussion, it being acetic acid, would have a low pH number.

As for the issue of black mold, are we certain that it truly is black mold, or could it possibly be black algae? Just curious... Either way, the same suggested solutions would probably clean it up.

 

[rgranger]

TSP and baking soda are both basic (raise pH). However thinwater is correct about baking soda having the lowest pH of the two. Baking soda actually makes it's own buffer solution because it still has an acidic proton and a basic functionality in the same molecule.

Anyway.... I'm still an advocate for mothballs. I close up my boat each year with mothballs and not only is the mold gone but I don't have wasps or mud dabblers in my boat... nor mice or rats etc.

I'm actually off to deliver my Acid/Base lecture right now...

Fair winds y'all.

 

[Kermit]

I'm still an advocate for mothballs. I close up my boat each year with mothballs and not only is the mold gone but I don't have wasps or mud dabblers in my boat... nor mice or rats etc.

Keeps most people away, too. Except for little old ladies who love smelling like mothballs.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

rgranger and I agree on mothballs and sure educateds the mice and squirrels from living underneath a mainsail cover

 

[rgranger]

Keeps most people away, too. Except for little old ladies who love smelling like mothballs.

Absolutely.... the first time I put out mothballs in the boat, my kids were very little and my youngest daughter came on board and asked me.... "why does the boat smell like grandma's house?" I burst our laughing. I've become my mother...

But if you leave the hatch open while driving down the road... the smell is gone by the time you get to the ramp.... and not only is the mold killed... so are the spores.... and no mud dabbler mess to clean up... not mice holes in your fabric etc. It is a very effective way to keep your boat fresh.

 

[JamesG161]

But if you leave the hatch open while driving down the road... the smell is gone by the time you get to the ramp.... and not only is the mold killed... so are the spores.... and no mud dabbler mess to clean up... not mice holes in your fabric etc. It is a very effective way to keep your boat fresh.

Wow! How many mothBALLS do you have errr uhhhh ... I mean USE? I would use small , retrievable, open air flow bags. You can put the residual mothball bags in a sealed container to conserve for later insect, snake and varmint control. The modern mothballs (para-dichlorobenzene) may not "attract grannies".

I'm actually off to deliver my Acid/Base lecture right now

Don't forget to tell them that there is no such thing as pH, in a dried powder residue.

or could it possibly be black algae?

Yes, if the black stuff is exposed to sunlight. Algae is a plant, mold it a fungus.

BTW all of the chemicals, formulas, and methods in this post WORK!
Jim...

 

[rgranger]

Hi James

I have a few mason jars that I keep the naphthelene in... and I close them up for the summer to reuse later. Granny won't share so I had to get my own.... :-(

 

[Brian S]

Regarding moth balls. I heard from a fellow boater, that it is the para-dichlorobenzene based mothballs that kill mildew, and not the naphthaline based mothballs. At my local grocery store, they have 15 varieties of naphthaline moth formulas, but only one kind of para-dicholorbenzene. Smells like bathroom urinal cakes.

JamesG, as our resident expert, can you confirm or deny on the efficacy of either para-dicholorobenzene or naphthaline?

Also, the mothballs do a good job of keeping the mice out of your spinnaker. One of our racers had his new Flying Scot spin chewed by mice. He bought some recloseable finger paint pots at a local arts and crafts store, and put the mothballs in them. He closes them up when he puts them in the car for race days, so he doesn't stink up the car. Me, I re-use my para- mothballs in a plastic snap lid storage container between seasons...

 

[thinwater]

The trouble with vapor based treatments (moth balls--you know this, but also tea tree oil) is that by the time you reach the minimum inhibitory concentration, it is well over the safe exposure limit for humans. Put simply, if you use a lot and do not ventilate, it should be enough, but you can't go in the boat until it is ventilated. Additionally, you have to button up the ventilation, which is cross purposes unless you run a dehumidifier... in which case neither is needed. (I did some tea tree oil testing for a sailing mag--all it actually did was make the boat smell better. It did not inhibit or kill unless the concentration was unhealthy. Exagerated advertising, IMHO.)

 

[JamesG161]

can you confirm or deny on the efficacy of either para-dicholorobenzene or naphthaline?

Since I have never used the more inflammable ( to inflame a fire ) naphthaline in a closed space, I am not sure about the mildew impact, but I suspect YES.

What is good about Para- mothballs...
1) Volatile and fills spaces hard to spray the dissolve formula of salts mentioned above.
2) Cheap
3) Actually slightly deposits on those exposed surface. Put a piece of plastic (not in contact) inside a sealed bag of mothballs and take it out the next day and smell it. Then smell it 2 hours later. But 2 days later... nada. Thus @rgranger ventilation comment, but not to his daughter's nose. Now fabrics are another story and why it protects clothes.
4) Lower combustible vapor than naphthaline, kinda like diesel fuel's hazard level.

What I like about these post is you can see all of the ideas. Except @rgranger , he makes me think too much.

I am now thinking that Borax plus Para-mothballs is the ideal combination, since there are different spots on your boat that would require different methods. Borax doesn't attract grannies. shhhhh... my Grannie used a soda caps full of Borax behind her refrigerator to stop ants and roaches.

the time you reach the minimum inhibitory concentration, it is well over the safe exposure limit for humans.

This is very true, but those limits are based on a TIMED exposure to people. So ventilate and limit you time to less than an 8 hour day, which is the human standard level, limit basis. Tea Tree Oil has its own health hazards too.
In fact all of the chemical in this post have Hazards.
Learn the hazards from wiki and use them prudently.
Jim...

 

[sailndayz]

After years of managing environmental clean ups, I've concluded that a 10% solution of bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) is the most effective killer of mold. It also whitens the surface. Now the bleach's effect on your vessel's fiberglass and gel coat can be a problem because bleach is an oxidizing agent, so go gentle. Bleach is a wonderful disinfectant too. If you remove moisture, the mold stays away. Easier said than done on a boat. Black Mold is not necessarily Toxic. Subsequent studies have proven that the early 90's alleged Black Mold deaths really weren't caused by Black mold. That was a case of hyper reporting that never got corrected.

 

[Curious Sailor]

Ever hear of kaboom? That stuff works pretty good....