I am a grad student with Antioch University doing a project about sustainable fuels. I'd like to know from fellow boaters if you've heard about it, or if you've ever used it. Thanks!
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Only In Pre-mix Form
One of the marine fuel providers has a pre-mixed formula. I do not recall the mix... I think its in the teens percent. That's likely the way to intro the fuel. It is not easy to come by and costs bucks. Understand its a good product. Suggest you check with some local marine fuel docks. Rick D.
One of the marine fuel providers has a pre-mixed formula. I do not recall the mix... I think its in the teens percent. That's likely the way to intro the fuel. It is not easy to come by and costs bucks. Understand its a good product. Suggest you check with some local marine fuel docks. Rick D.
Here in NW
I know that several marinas aaround the area offer Biodiesel. Right now in the letters section of 48north there are two comments from customers as well as the marinas where they purchased. I left my copy on the boat but I'll give you the web site link.
I know that several marinas aaround the area offer Biodiesel. Right now in the letters section of 48north there are two comments from customers as well as the marinas where they purchased. I left my copy on the boat but I'll give you the web site link.
Waste Less - Want Less
Hi Alison, Maybe you could invent a marine head that produces fuel rather than discharges waste. I'm sure someone with enough bio-chemical and genetic engineering knowledge could come up with a microbe to help make this possible. (I apologize if I offended any creationist by insinuating genetic engineering actually exists.) By definition, fuel is not sustainable. You can’t have your cake and … (yada, yada). Even when we capture wind energy in our sails, we are preventing (granted, in a very small way) normal climatic equalization, thus adding to extreme weather phenomena. (Trees are equally culpable.) The fossil fuel we burn in our motors is only releasing solar energy collected and concentrated eons ago. And don’t get me started on the fuel cell scam. Just where do you think all that hydrogen to "fuel" them is going to come from? You can't mine it, drill for it or grow it on trees! All the hydrogen on our planet is already "consumed". It is already combined with oxygen (water) or carbon (oil) or forms more odorous compounds such as hydrogen sulfide. Sure the oceans are two-thirds hydrogen but to wrestle that hydrogen away from the oxygen it's attached to takes more energy than a fuel cell can recover by putting them back together. Just where do you suppose the disassociation energy to make the hydrogen will come from? Fossil fuels and nuclear, that’s where. If all the brilliant minds currently working on alternative energy sources were to concentrate only on nuclear fusion, (the ultimate source of all energy in the universe) and make it a reality here on earth, we could have enough non-polluting energy to turn this world (and maybe others around it) into a paradise. Just an observation from someone who’s been in the energy business (from fossil to super conductors) for 30 years. Happy sails _/), MArk
Hi Alison, Maybe you could invent a marine head that produces fuel rather than discharges waste. I'm sure someone with enough bio-chemical and genetic engineering knowledge could come up with a microbe to help make this possible. (I apologize if I offended any creationist by insinuating genetic engineering actually exists.) By definition, fuel is not sustainable. You can’t have your cake and … (yada, yada). Even when we capture wind energy in our sails, we are preventing (granted, in a very small way) normal climatic equalization, thus adding to extreme weather phenomena. (Trees are equally culpable.) The fossil fuel we burn in our motors is only releasing solar energy collected and concentrated eons ago. And don’t get me started on the fuel cell scam. Just where do you think all that hydrogen to "fuel" them is going to come from? You can't mine it, drill for it or grow it on trees! All the hydrogen on our planet is already "consumed". It is already combined with oxygen (water) or carbon (oil) or forms more odorous compounds such as hydrogen sulfide. Sure the oceans are two-thirds hydrogen but to wrestle that hydrogen away from the oxygen it's attached to takes more energy than a fuel cell can recover by putting them back together. Just where do you suppose the disassociation energy to make the hydrogen will come from? Fossil fuels and nuclear, that’s where. If all the brilliant minds currently working on alternative energy sources were to concentrate only on nuclear fusion, (the ultimate source of all energy in the universe) and make it a reality here on earth, we could have enough non-polluting energy to turn this world (and maybe others around it) into a paradise. Just an observation from someone who’s been in the energy business (from fossil to super conductors) for 30 years. Happy sails _/), MArk
Bayou Diesel
Here on the gulf coast we get large quantities of "bayou" diesel from oil wells. Although it may not burn as clean as bio-diesel, at least when you purchase it, you are helping to fund government projects such as roads, bridges, and waterways through your 35 cents or so tax per gallon. On the other hand, if you buy a gallon of bio-diesel, not only are you not paying your fair share of the tax burden, but everyone else (via government subsidies) pays more than half the cost of this product for you. (related link - in GB it is taxed but cooking oil isn't) Also, because you are consuming excess crop production, less is available to donate to feed the starving children in poor countries. I’m sure the price differential will be negligible in the future (by 2100 maybe), but for now, the only one benefiting from bio-diesel is “Big Agro”. I’ve seen this happen before with gasohol. Also, if you do use bio-diesel, be sure to check for material compatibility of fuel tanks, hoses and engine parts. The methanol in bio-diesel will attack some types of rubber. So, shut off that engine and hoist those sails! The wind is free and pollutes even less than bio-diesel. And remember - Fusion is the ultimate answer. Happy sails _/), MArk
Here on the gulf coast we get large quantities of "bayou" diesel from oil wells. Although it may not burn as clean as bio-diesel, at least when you purchase it, you are helping to fund government projects such as roads, bridges, and waterways through your 35 cents or so tax per gallon. On the other hand, if you buy a gallon of bio-diesel, not only are you not paying your fair share of the tax burden, but everyone else (via government subsidies) pays more than half the cost of this product for you. (related link - in GB it is taxed but cooking oil isn't) Also, because you are consuming excess crop production, less is available to donate to feed the starving children in poor countries. I’m sure the price differential will be negligible in the future (by 2100 maybe), but for now, the only one benefiting from bio-diesel is “Big Agro”. I’ve seen this happen before with gasohol. Also, if you do use bio-diesel, be sure to check for material compatibility of fuel tanks, hoses and engine parts. The methanol in bio-diesel will attack some types of rubber. So, shut off that engine and hoist those sails! The wind is free and pollutes even less than bio-diesel. And remember - Fusion is the ultimate answer. Happy sails _/), MArk
Well Said Mark
Trained as a physicist I have been trying to tell the environmental zealots this for years here in the UK - but they won't listen! Likewise glass wool house insulation costs more energy to make than it will ever save. There are many other examples.
Trained as a physicist I have been trying to tell the environmental zealots this for years here in the UK - but they won't listen! Likewise glass wool house insulation costs more energy to make than it will ever save. There are many other examples.
Bio-Diesel
There is a product that is sold as an additive called Soy Gold. It can be added up to 20% without any harm or engine modifications. I have used it, and it seems to run pretty clean. It all but eliminated the black soot form the transom. They are located in KC and can be found on the web.
There is a product that is sold as an additive called Soy Gold. It can be added up to 20% without any harm or engine modifications. I have used it, and it seems to run pretty clean. It all but eliminated the black soot form the transom. They are located in KC and can be found on the web.
Antioch college in Ohio? (off topic)
Alison, Is this the one where the students don't get regular grades (like 'A', 'B', 'C', etc) ? And where students don't wear a cap and gown for graduation but wear what they want and in the past they wear things like clown outfits or whatever? Not trying to be silly, just wondering because my brother went there.
Alison, Is this the one where the students don't get regular grades (like 'A', 'B', 'C', etc) ? And where students don't wear a cap and gown for graduation but wear what they want and in the past they wear things like clown outfits or whatever? Not trying to be silly, just wondering because my brother went there.
MArk, one question Fusion or Fission
There is a big difference in safety and by-product created...no?! (see link) Fusion is safer, Fission has a less(?) radiative waste life (100 years to 1000). Also what do we do with the (hazardous) by-products? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you totally, personally I would just take the by-product and send them on a spacecraft straight to the Sun, I doubt it would make any difference there. BTW, you don't mention anything about solar (active and passive) power. Yes, I know its not an easy "nut to crack" to get any appreciable amount of energy, but its there, its free, and it should (hope!) be around for a long long time. (Though as you say, it too has a limited and finite life- But then again what doesn't). You are right about everyone "having" to have a vehicle that goes from 0-60 in 7 seconds and also be capable of pulling a house. Its not the direction we need to go....(but I too fall into liking a little power and acceleration in my pickup truck...;-)
There is a big difference in safety and by-product created...no?! (see link) Fusion is safer, Fission has a less(?) radiative waste life (100 years to 1000). Also what do we do with the (hazardous) by-products? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you totally, personally I would just take the by-product and send them on a spacecraft straight to the Sun, I doubt it would make any difference there. BTW, you don't mention anything about solar (active and passive) power. Yes, I know its not an easy "nut to crack" to get any appreciable amount of energy, but its there, its free, and it should (hope!) be around for a long long time. (Though as you say, it too has a limited and finite life- But then again what doesn't). You are right about everyone "having" to have a vehicle that goes from 0-60 in 7 seconds and also be capable of pulling a house. Its not the direction we need to go....(but I too fall into liking a little power and acceleration in my pickup truck...;-)
Fusion powers my boat!
Tom, Today, as we speak, fusion (not fission) powers my boat. Most energy on earth including solar, wind, hydro, oil and coal come from or originally came from the sun. The only exception is nuclear fission power supplied by uranium and similar unstable (and hazardous) elements that were originally created in massive supernova explosions over 4 billion years ago along with all other elements on earth except hydrogen (which already existed. Hydrogen is the most plentiful element in the universe.) So, the fusion of hydrogen to helium in the sun provides the heat that drives the wind that drives my sailboat. Even when I run the motor, I’m still using fusion power but even more indirectly. Billion of years ago, algae used the sun's light to separate carbon from CO2 and hydrogen from water, freeing oxygen that didn’t exist in the pre-life atmosphere. The energy stored in the algae got buried and concentrated and is now burned in our engines completing the cycle. If we as a planet are to ever advance to the point of controlling our own long-term destiny, we have to have more, not less, energy. Fusion power can not runaway or melt down like fission. It creates no radioactive or poisonous byproducts, only heat and light. It is as limitless as the stars. It is the energy source we need for the future. Happy (fusion powered) sails *_/), MArk
Tom, Today, as we speak, fusion (not fission) powers my boat. Most energy on earth including solar, wind, hydro, oil and coal come from or originally came from the sun. The only exception is nuclear fission power supplied by uranium and similar unstable (and hazardous) elements that were originally created in massive supernova explosions over 4 billion years ago along with all other elements on earth except hydrogen (which already existed. Hydrogen is the most plentiful element in the universe.) So, the fusion of hydrogen to helium in the sun provides the heat that drives the wind that drives my sailboat. Even when I run the motor, I’m still using fusion power but even more indirectly. Billion of years ago, algae used the sun's light to separate carbon from CO2 and hydrogen from water, freeing oxygen that didn’t exist in the pre-life atmosphere. The energy stored in the algae got buried and concentrated and is now burned in our engines completing the cycle. If we as a planet are to ever advance to the point of controlling our own long-term destiny, we have to have more, not less, energy. Fusion power can not runaway or melt down like fission. It creates no radioactive or poisonous byproducts, only heat and light. It is as limitless as the stars. It is the energy source we need for the future. Happy (fusion powered) sails *_/), MArk
Mark, Ok thanks for the info. One more question.
Earlier you mentioned "nuclear fusion". And you just said "Fusion power ........It creates no radioactive or poisonous byproducts" Is that true !?!. The link I posted said that Fusion(which uses isotopes of hydrogen atoms......that can be obtained from ordinary water) does produces some low levels of short lived radiation, decaying almost completely within 100 years (Of course not nearly as bad as fission)
Earlier you mentioned "nuclear fusion". And you just said "Fusion power ........It creates no radioactive or poisonous byproducts" Is that true !?!. The link I posted said that Fusion(which uses isotopes of hydrogen atoms......that can be obtained from ordinary water) does produces some low levels of short lived radiation, decaying almost completely within 100 years (Of course not nearly as bad as fission)
Power to the people
Tom, You are correct. Although there is at least one aneutronic (without neutrons) fusion process being researched (colliding beam fusion or CFB) which only emits photons (light) and electrons, the far more promising method of using deuterium, tritium and lithium does release neutrons which, although they do not pollute the air, they do raise the radioactivity of the containment vessel. This radioactivity is short-lived. Unlike fission, there is no spent fuel needing disposal and no hazardous fuel to load. Consider this; just 10 grams of deuterium and 15 grams of tritium (less than 1 ounce total!) could supply the average person enough electricity for their entire lifetime. http://web.singnet.com.sg/~romanic/htmls/fusion.html After having the fusion research budget cut to less than $250M under the previous administration, we are finally getting back to the future. (Who says Bush only cares about oil!) http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/janpr/pr03026.htm Happy (fusion powered) sailing *_/), MArk
Tom, You are correct. Although there is at least one aneutronic (without neutrons) fusion process being researched (colliding beam fusion or CFB) which only emits photons (light) and electrons, the far more promising method of using deuterium, tritium and lithium does release neutrons which, although they do not pollute the air, they do raise the radioactivity of the containment vessel. This radioactivity is short-lived. Unlike fission, there is no spent fuel needing disposal and no hazardous fuel to load. Consider this; just 10 grams of deuterium and 15 grams of tritium (less than 1 ounce total!) could supply the average person enough electricity for their entire lifetime. http://web.singnet.com.sg/~romanic/htmls/fusion.html After having the fusion research budget cut to less than $250M under the previous administration, we are finally getting back to the future. (Who says Bush only cares about oil!) http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/janpr/pr03026.htm Happy (fusion powered) sailing *_/), MArk
Alison, here is a link.
www.cytoculture.com 80/20% Soy Diesel is available in some areas. I have used it in my boat and would probably use a higher concentration if it was not so expensive. Even though I probably only use 15-20 gal of fuel a year, it still is costly.
www.cytoculture.com 80/20% Soy Diesel is available in some areas. I have used it in my boat and would probably use a higher concentration if it was not so expensive. Even though I probably only use 15-20 gal of fuel a year, it still is costly.
Mack Boring opposes it-
Just returned from Diesel School in Wilmington NC, where Mack Boring was unambiguously opposed to it, presumably with Yanmar's blessing.
Just returned from Diesel School in Wilmington NC, where Mack Boring was unambiguously opposed to it, presumably with Yanmar's blessing.
bio diesel
Alison; I've used it before, in a 25/75 mix, but quit doing it when I saw very little results of the hassle and expense.
Alison; I've used it before, in a 25/75 mix, but quit doing it when I saw very little results of the hassle and expense.
Maybe, maybe not!
Bill: Here is a excerpt from the cytoculture site. Whether Yanmar accepts or rejects its use is probably up for discussion. There are all sorts of municipal governments and public transit systems using the stuff. It does have slightly less power than pure diesel fuel. They are using this stuff in Europe too and have been for quite a while. I suppose that we would be better off paying the farmers and other businesses in the US to formula this stuff rather than sending our $$$ to the middle east for that old dinosaur juice (Oh, excuse me, that was a political statement). 'Warranties and Engine Manufacturer Endorsements' 'Marine diesel engine manufacturers in United States, Europe and Japan have all recognized the growing role of Biodiesel as a viable fuel additive, and in most cases, as a complete alternative fuel (100%). Two of the sponsors of the SUNRIDER expedition of 1992-1994 were the marine diesel engine manufacturers: Mercruiser (inboard/outboard diesel engine) and Yanmar (outboard diesel engines), endorsing Biodiesel as a suitable alternative fuel to power Bryan Peterson’s 28-ft inflatable Zodiac boat around the world. This 35,000 mile adventure remains the most famous and most publicized demonstration of using Biodiesel in marine engines. Over 18,000 gallons of donated soy methyl ester Biodiesel was provided to SUNRIDER at various destination ports and rendezvous locations (including a mid-ocean fuel transfer from a ship). Bryan started out from Pier 39 in San Francisco in 1992 and returned under the Golden Gate bridge on September 8, 1994, powered by 100% soybean Biodiesel. Brian’s last 100 gallons of Biodiesel were donated by CytoCulture when he stopped in Santa Cruz on the final leg up the coast of California. At that point, he remarked, "The Biodiesel works….No problems." Engine manufacturers in Europe have a long history of supporting the Biodiesel movement, and those that produce marine engines continue to endorse the alternative fuel use in their equipment. Some manufacturers warranty their marine engines for use with 100% Biodiesel for late models or for older engines retrofitted with newer synthetic hoses and gaskets that proved more resistant to the pure methyl esters over extended periods of time. Some prefer to warranty Biodiesel engines on a case by case basis. In the U.S., diesel engine manufacturers generally stand by their warranties as long as the fuel used in their engines meet the ASTM D-975 standards defining fuel for compression ignition engines. All of the B-20 blends of Biodiesel produced in America meet the ASTM D-975 specifications. Contact your engine manufacturer for updates on their acceptance of B-20 blend as an acceptable fuel within the scope of their warranties.'
Bill: Here is a excerpt from the cytoculture site. Whether Yanmar accepts or rejects its use is probably up for discussion. There are all sorts of municipal governments and public transit systems using the stuff. It does have slightly less power than pure diesel fuel. They are using this stuff in Europe too and have been for quite a while. I suppose that we would be better off paying the farmers and other businesses in the US to formula this stuff rather than sending our $$$ to the middle east for that old dinosaur juice (Oh, excuse me, that was a political statement). 'Warranties and Engine Manufacturer Endorsements' 'Marine diesel engine manufacturers in United States, Europe and Japan have all recognized the growing role of Biodiesel as a viable fuel additive, and in most cases, as a complete alternative fuel (100%). Two of the sponsors of the SUNRIDER expedition of 1992-1994 were the marine diesel engine manufacturers: Mercruiser (inboard/outboard diesel engine) and Yanmar (outboard diesel engines), endorsing Biodiesel as a suitable alternative fuel to power Bryan Peterson’s 28-ft inflatable Zodiac boat around the world. This 35,000 mile adventure remains the most famous and most publicized demonstration of using Biodiesel in marine engines. Over 18,000 gallons of donated soy methyl ester Biodiesel was provided to SUNRIDER at various destination ports and rendezvous locations (including a mid-ocean fuel transfer from a ship). Bryan started out from Pier 39 in San Francisco in 1992 and returned under the Golden Gate bridge on September 8, 1994, powered by 100% soybean Biodiesel. Brian’s last 100 gallons of Biodiesel were donated by CytoCulture when he stopped in Santa Cruz on the final leg up the coast of California. At that point, he remarked, "The Biodiesel works….No problems." Engine manufacturers in Europe have a long history of supporting the Biodiesel movement, and those that produce marine engines continue to endorse the alternative fuel use in their equipment. Some manufacturers warranty their marine engines for use with 100% Biodiesel for late models or for older engines retrofitted with newer synthetic hoses and gaskets that proved more resistant to the pure methyl esters over extended periods of time. Some prefer to warranty Biodiesel engines on a case by case basis. In the U.S., diesel engine manufacturers generally stand by their warranties as long as the fuel used in their engines meet the ASTM D-975 standards defining fuel for compression ignition engines. All of the B-20 blends of Biodiesel produced in America meet the ASTM D-975 specifications. Contact your engine manufacturer for updates on their acceptance of B-20 blend as an acceptable fuel within the scope of their warranties.'
Coming around
I set up the controls for the first MTBE plant in the US back in 1982. MTBE is an oxygenated fuel additive used in almost all gasoline sold in the US today. Although MTBE reduced air pollution from gasoline engines and improved gasoline octane (replacing lead), there was (and still is) major concern with ground water and river pollution. One problem with any oxygenated fuel or fuel additive (like biodiesel) is that it mixes too well with water. Once a leak occurs, these fuels don't just lay on top the water where they can be collected, they blend in. Leaks are harder to monitor and impossible to clean up. This is why so many gas stations had to replace their underground storage tanks or close when MTBE was introduced. Another major problem with biodiesel is its shelf life. If you let it sit too long, it starts to get moldy. Yes, mold will actually grow in it. (Like we don’t have enough mold problems on boats!) The solution is to add a biocide. This makes the mixture even more toxic but at least the fuel lines and filters won't plug as often. Based on my rants you may think I’m against biodiesel. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want to see biodiesel succeed on its own merits, without taxpayer subsidies. If it’s a good idea, it can stand on its own legs. If it’s not economical now, do the research and be ready for when it is, but don’t cram it down our throats. Check the related link for another example of how "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Happy (fusion powered) sails *_/), MArk
I set up the controls for the first MTBE plant in the US back in 1982. MTBE is an oxygenated fuel additive used in almost all gasoline sold in the US today. Although MTBE reduced air pollution from gasoline engines and improved gasoline octane (replacing lead), there was (and still is) major concern with ground water and river pollution. One problem with any oxygenated fuel or fuel additive (like biodiesel) is that it mixes too well with water. Once a leak occurs, these fuels don't just lay on top the water where they can be collected, they blend in. Leaks are harder to monitor and impossible to clean up. This is why so many gas stations had to replace their underground storage tanks or close when MTBE was introduced. Another major problem with biodiesel is its shelf life. If you let it sit too long, it starts to get moldy. Yes, mold will actually grow in it. (Like we don’t have enough mold problems on boats!) The solution is to add a biocide. This makes the mixture even more toxic but at least the fuel lines and filters won't plug as often. Based on my rants you may think I’m against biodiesel. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want to see biodiesel succeed on its own merits, without taxpayer subsidies. If it’s a good idea, it can stand on its own legs. If it’s not economical now, do the research and be ready for when it is, but don’t cram it down our throats. Check the related link for another example of how "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Happy (fusion powered) sails *_/), MArk
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