Bilge Pump on C-310

[KZW]

I'm looking for sage council and advice.

Situation: I cleaned the A/C filter on Tuesday. Doing so lets in some water as the filter is removed. That is not a bad thing as it helps clean the lines. The bilge pump came on, as it should. I cleaned the filter and put it back. In due time the bilge pump stopped. This evening, Wednesday, I opened up the boat and noted that the bilge pump switch light was on, indicating power was applied to the pump. However the pump wasn't running. I removed the hatch boards to find three inches of water above the top of the pump - not a good thing, especially during hurricane season. I pulled the pump from its bracket and after it was clear of the water, I rotated the float switch, and it started running. In placing it back in the water it ran for a few seconds and stopped. The water level never went down. I tried it several times with the same result.

I figure it could be one of two things:
1) The pump motor is failed or fouled and has insufficient torque to move water
2) The check valve failed in the closed position. When the pump runs it builds up pressure and stops when it cannot overcome the pressure.

For you non-310 owners. Yes, check valves in the bilge pump line are bad. The 310 is a special case. The bilge is very small and narrow and the pump line goes all the way to the port side at the stern. Without the check valve, as soon as the pump stops water would run back out of the line back into the bilge and the pump would start again. The check valve is a necessity.

Questions:
1) Has anyone taken apart a check valve to service it or get it unstuck? I've not a clue what it looks like on the inside.
2) What are you 310 owners using for a bilge pump? There is very little room. If it doesn't have an integral float switch, what do you use and where do you put it.

 

[paulj]

I removed the check valve 4 years ago, when my pump went out.
I use a turkey baster to remove the last amount of water.


paulj

 

[KZW]

Doesn't the pump cycle when the water back flows? I can understand the turkey baster, but what happens when you are not on the boat for a while?

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

As Paul said, remove the check valve. The 310 is not a special case. Check valves don't belong on boats with a few exceptions like the bypass for the water heater.

If you want to get the bilge as dry as possible get a float switch that allows for a delay between the water being past the sensor and shutting off the pump. Some of the electronic Water Witch switches do this.

For the bump, I went with a diaphragm pump instead of the centerfugile style pump. More money and a more complicated install but better performance.

Good luck

 

[2 OLD PIRATES]

Ahoy ..... JK_Boston I have just looked around at the centrifugal style pumps and it seems that from what I can find is that they need to be primed and below water level in bilge. Is there a switch like on the Bilge pumps that starts it up and is your sitting in water in Bilge. Do you have a photo by chance and Model/Make?

Cheers
2 Old Pirates

 

[paulj]

I keep a dry bilge , if there is water in the bilge I find out where it is leaking and fix it.
I may have one leak a year and it would be someone forgot to turn on the shower sump pump.
That is just the way I do it..................

Yes the water runs back into the bilge.
My bilge pump comes on very 2-3 minutes ,I think, 24 hours a day 365 days and checks for water. If none............


paulj

 

[paulj]

Paul does not say remove the check valve.
Paul says, he remove his check valve.
paulj

 

[KZW]

You cannot keep a dry bilge and run the A/C. There is a LOT of condensation on the A/C coils that runs into the bilge. When the water temp is 88 degrees and the air temp is over 90 degrees in the hot sun, the inside of the boat bakes without the A/C on. Things just fall apart due to the heat. Thus, I need a bilge pump that works and the bottom of the bilge is only dry in the winter.

So, what make/model of bilge pump do 310 owners use and what do you use for a float switch? The 310 bilge is very tight compared to most boats. Pictures would be helpful.

Today I took out the check valve, took it apart, and checked it. It is working fine. The pump pumped water just fine with a six inch hose on it. However the pump won't pump water through the bilge pump hose to the outside world. I didn't have a snake, but could blow through the hose, so it isn't obstructed. Guess it is time for a new pump, hence the question above.

 

[LeoLambert310]

What I have is a Rule Industries Non-Automatic Submersible Electric 1100gph with a Rule-A-Matic Switch. this has worked for the last 12 years with no problems and yes I do have some water in the bilge.

 

[KZW]

What I have is a Rule Industries Non-Automatic Submersible Electric 1100gph with a Rule-A-Matic Switch. this has worked for the last 12 years with no problems and yes I do have some water in the bilge.

Are you willing to post a picture of the installation? It would be a big help.
I looked at the Rule-A-Matic Switch when the original bilge pump died. I couldn't figure a way to make it fit between the keel bolts with a Rule pump. I made cardboard cut outs and moved them around. I couldn't find a place for a clean installation.

 

[LeoLambert310]

Hope this helps

 

[Deleted member 117556]

I finally removed the check valve after seeing it get stuck in the closed position not allowing the water to be pumped out. So I do have water in the bilge but there is no cycling. Turkey baster is a great idea that I plan to try.
bob

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

The rule pumps will work. Not my favorite quality but if you just remove the check valve and replace it with a double barb it will work fine. Rule actually says not to use check valves on the pumps and their website.

If you want better quality, look at the diaphragm pumps. Whale pump makes one but it won't fit in our bilge. I used a Jabsco belt driven fresh water pump. They usually cost over $300 and have pressure switches on them. I found one at a consignment shop for $40. I removed the pressure switch and wired it through a float switch. I installed the pump under the port settee.

I will take some photos when I open the bilge next. But I am too tired right now. Just finished 2 weeks of hard work helping a friend recover from a lightning strike and adding 4 more solar panels to my boat. Just going to sit in the cockpit with a cigar and a beer and enjoy the Caribbean trades.

Fair winds

Jesse

 

[KZW]

Hope this helps

Thanks for the picture!

 

[WellerH]

Another wrinkle: On my C310 the bilge pump output is tee-ed into the output from the manual whale emergency pump, then both go overboard through the same through-hull. If you don't have a check valve and the main bilge pump fails, then there is risk that output from the manual whale pump will just go back into the bilge instead of overboard. In our case we ran a second separate through hull to eliminate this risk.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Another wrinkle: On my C310 the bilge pump output is tee-ed into the output from the manual whale emergency pump, then both go overboard through the same through-hull. If you don't have a check valve and the main bilge pump fails, then there is risk that output from the manual whale pump will just go back into the bilge instead of overboard. In our case we ran a second separate through hull to eliminate this risk.

Don't see this a possible. The electronic bilge pump enters the manual line a the down slope from the high point to the through hull. How could that for fail and let water back into the bilge?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Another wrinkle: On my C310 the bilge pump output is tee-ed into the output from the manual whale emergency pump, then both go overboard through the same through-hull. If you don't have a check valve and the main bilge pump fails, then there is risk that output from the manual whale pump will just go back into the bilge instead of overboard. In our case we ran a second separate through hull to eliminate this risk.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8946.msg64623.html#msg64623

Please read both pages.

 

[KZW]

My bilge pump comes on very 2-3 minutes ,I think, 24 hours a day 365 days and checks for water. If none............
Paulj

How noisy is it? Any trouble sleeping on the boat with the bilge pump cycling every 2.5 minutes?

 

[paulj]

How noisy is it? Any trouble sleeping on the boat with the bilge pump cycling every 2.5 minutes?

Well if the noise bothered me and it doesn't, I can shut off the pump any time with the switch...auto,off and manual. ORRRRR turn off it at the circuit breaker.
So if I had a guest who became annoyed by the noise...I would lie to them and makeup some story why it had to be on.......like live or death.

paulj

 

[marchem]

What I have is a Rule Industries Non-Automatic Submersible Electric 1100gph with a Rule-A-Matic Switch. this has worked for the last 12 years with no problems and yes I do have some water in the bilge.

Leo, do you have that connected to the 3/4" hose with a reducer? Or did you run a new larger hose?