Okay, maybe I'm missing something really obvious here, so I'm hoping someone can tell me what it is. I get water in the bilge, which tends to happen on a boat, especially when the icebox, shower, etc. drain into there. I don't have a real problem with that, the problem that I have is that when the bilge pump kicks in and pushes that water out (which it does a pretty good job of), inevitably when it shuts off, I get a bunch of that water back in the bilge as backflow through the pump. Easy, I thought, install a check valve so that water only goes out and not back in. That's the catch. It appears that the outlet for my bilge pump (and most that I've checked) is 1 1/8 inches, and I can't find a check valve that size. 1 1/2 yes, 3/4 yes, 1 1/8 NO. So do I live with it? Is there a reason why no one would want a check valve on a bilge pump, which results in no demand, i.e. no supply? I appreciate the opportunity to vent and any insight that the wise members of this forum can shed. T J
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no check valve
Eventually a check valve will fail - staying closed, and you won't be able to pump water at all. Best leave it alone. Better idea - add a 2nd, smaller bilge pump, lower in the bilge that say has a 1/2 or 3/4 outlet, and you will have less water, more redundancy, etc. I have the pump, but have not installed it yet...on the list of things-to-do
Eventually a check valve will fail - staying closed, and you won't be able to pump water at all. Best leave it alone. Better idea - add a 2nd, smaller bilge pump, lower in the bilge that say has a 1/2 or 3/4 outlet, and you will have less water, more redundancy, etc. I have the pump, but have not installed it yet...on the list of things-to-do
Drawback to second lower bilge pump
Bilge pumps are mounted several inches high to allow glop, crud, lost nuts and bolts etc to settle under 'em instead of getting caught in 'em and clogging the pump. A second smaller pump lower in the bilge just becomes a trap for any of that stuff. Check valves are an even worse idea because, as Debra says, they can fail...rendering your bilge pump useless and putting your boat at risk. The right solution: install a sump and sump pump and reroute your shower and icebox drain into it. Use a manual pump ("dinghy bailer") and bucket to remove the water from the bilge that the bilge pump leaves behind. 5 minutes of light manual labor as part of closing up the boat won't kill you.
Bilge pumps are mounted several inches high to allow glop, crud, lost nuts and bolts etc to settle under 'em instead of getting caught in 'em and clogging the pump. A second smaller pump lower in the bilge just becomes a trap for any of that stuff. Check valves are an even worse idea because, as Debra says, they can fail...rendering your bilge pump useless and putting your boat at risk. The right solution: install a sump and sump pump and reroute your shower and icebox drain into it. Use a manual pump ("dinghy bailer") and bucket to remove the water from the bilge that the bilge pump leaves behind. 5 minutes of light manual labor as part of closing up the boat won't kill you.
The 3/4" check valve works fine.
It's an all bronze unit and works perfectly. The amount of water that returns to the bilge is minimum. It's located six inches from the pump, so it's easy to get to and replace if ever needed. Personally, I think the pump will fail before the check valve. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
It's an all bronze unit and works perfectly. The amount of water that returns to the bilge is minimum. It's located six inches from the pump, so it's easy to get to and replace if ever needed. Personally, I think the pump will fail before the check valve. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
maybe just install the pump with a reducer
Use the pump with a smaller hose with a reducer. This will reduce the backwash water by a lot. Yes, it will also reduce the flow, but I would prefer to have less water backwashed. For an emergency, you will need a bigger pump anyway. a 2 pump setup is best. Cheap small pump for trace water, and a big bertha model for an emergency But agree...prevention is key. Control the water first. Paul
Use the pump with a smaller hose with a reducer. This will reduce the backwash water by a lot. Yes, it will also reduce the flow, but I would prefer to have less water backwashed. For an emergency, you will need a bigger pump anyway. a 2 pump setup is best. Cheap small pump for trace water, and a big bertha model for an emergency But agree...prevention is key. Control the water first. Paul
No check valve
My battery was killed by a check valve!!! The valve wouldn't open and the pump kept running for how long??? Anyway I replaced the hose without a check valve. Surprisingly my bilge is drier now. Another solution might be to install a smaller pump with a smaller diameter hose to remove small amounts of water with a high capacity pump with large diameter hose for emergency use.
My battery was killed by a check valve!!! The valve wouldn't open and the pump kept running for how long??? Anyway I replaced the hose without a check valve. Surprisingly my bilge is drier now. Another solution might be to install a smaller pump with a smaller diameter hose to remove small amounts of water with a high capacity pump with large diameter hose for emergency use.
bilge pump blues!
TJ, this subject always gets alot of opions so here is mine. Unless the backflow keeps the pump cycling do not install a check valve.If the back flow keeps the pump recycling put the check valve in,however be prepared to do regular maintance of cleaning it.I don't feel that if it is keep clean it is a problem. If you want to install a second pump I would make it a "high water" pump with a alarm so that it will still pump out bilge (install pump at same height as origianl pump but install switch several inches above origianl float switch,do not use a check valve in this pump)Wire the second pump to a different battery then the original pump and if the original pump would drain the battery the second pump will still operate.As far as the 1 1/8 inch hose get a 1 inch valve and use rigging tape to size it or there are reducer/adapters availabe to go from 1 1/8 to 1 inch hose.Good luck deciding what to do,there are alot of thought on this subject but no real majority opion. YOUR boat YOUR choice !
TJ, this subject always gets alot of opions so here is mine. Unless the backflow keeps the pump cycling do not install a check valve.If the back flow keeps the pump recycling put the check valve in,however be prepared to do regular maintance of cleaning it.I don't feel that if it is keep clean it is a problem. If you want to install a second pump I would make it a "high water" pump with a alarm so that it will still pump out bilge (install pump at same height as origianl pump but install switch several inches above origianl float switch,do not use a check valve in this pump)Wire the second pump to a different battery then the original pump and if the original pump would drain the battery the second pump will still operate.As far as the 1 1/8 inch hose get a 1 inch valve and use rigging tape to size it or there are reducer/adapters availabe to go from 1 1/8 to 1 inch hose.Good luck deciding what to do,there are alot of thought on this subject but no real majority opion. YOUR boat YOUR choice !
Use a Big Sponge
I agree with everyones comments about no check valve. My prefered method to eliminate that water which the bilge pump won't get is the "big sponge" trick. With the big sponge trick you pay closer attention to your bilge. You notice what kinds of fluids and/or matter that accumulate there, a heads up on problems and keeps your bilge clean. Get one of those big 4 x 6 automotive sponges. I keep several onboard. It will hold a surprising amount of water! Great for bailing out the dink. --Buddy Richardson s/v Cowardly Lion H28
I agree with everyones comments about no check valve. My prefered method to eliminate that water which the bilge pump won't get is the "big sponge" trick. With the big sponge trick you pay closer attention to your bilge. You notice what kinds of fluids and/or matter that accumulate there, a heads up on problems and keeps your bilge clean. Get one of those big 4 x 6 automotive sponges. I keep several onboard. It will hold a surprising amount of water! Great for bailing out the dink. --Buddy Richardson s/v Cowardly Lion H28
Rule recommendation
Rule recommends against installing check valves with their bilge pumps. I installed one anyway, one of the huge bronze gravity-operated ones (rather than spring operated.) Thought I was beating the system, but sure enough, within a couple years it stuck shut, which kept the pump from priming. Threw the check valve away after that. Can't afford to have something like that happen when I'm away from the boat.
Rule recommends against installing check valves with their bilge pumps. I installed one anyway, one of the huge bronze gravity-operated ones (rather than spring operated.) Thought I was beating the system, but sure enough, within a couple years it stuck shut, which kept the pump from priming. Threw the check valve away after that. Can't afford to have something like that happen when I'm away from the boat.
Check valve is several years old.
Every year, I take it out for cleaning, but it doesn't need much and it operates like new. Tried without the check valve, but the pump cycles too much. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
Every year, I take it out for cleaning, but it doesn't need much and it operates like new. Tried without the check valve, but the pump cycles too much. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
Two pump system
Has anyone installed the second pump as a few of you suggest? Does it have any advantages in actual practical use? I've always had just the one and all three of the pumps/floats I've had over the last 25 years have all (when I've actually seen the bilge level that high) had the same annoying characteristic of backwashing what seems like nearly the exact same amount of bilge contents as what's required to turn the pump back on again. I've got a hunter 30 and the bilge hose is 3/4". A smaller discharge hose would allow less water to backwash I guess, but probably not significantly less. I've always kept my boat fairly water tight from rain and I don't have anything draining into her bilges so the auto pump feature rarely operates, I pump the bilge dry when I arrive and depart from the boat so the possibility of it getting to the level of cycling on the switch is remote. A bigger (back up)pump for auto operation at a deeper bige level and/or mannual operation wouldn't totally solve the problem of frequent cycling of the pump on the auto switch (the smaller hose may reduce it just a little, I guess), it would require another hole be drilled in the transom though and another hose strung out from stern to bilge (an unattractive return on investment I think). I've often though that a float switch that had a wider dead band between turning on and off might be a good idea, letting the bilge water build up to the point where the pump would actually have more then a mere a hoseful plus a squirt of water to remove from the bilge to open the low event switch on the float. Then again allowing MORE water to build up in the bilge before turning on the pump at all is counter intuitive to the sole function of the auto switch - keeping the keel off the bottom while I'm away.
Has anyone installed the second pump as a few of you suggest? Does it have any advantages in actual practical use? I've always had just the one and all three of the pumps/floats I've had over the last 25 years have all (when I've actually seen the bilge level that high) had the same annoying characteristic of backwashing what seems like nearly the exact same amount of bilge contents as what's required to turn the pump back on again. I've got a hunter 30 and the bilge hose is 3/4". A smaller discharge hose would allow less water to backwash I guess, but probably not significantly less. I've always kept my boat fairly water tight from rain and I don't have anything draining into her bilges so the auto pump feature rarely operates, I pump the bilge dry when I arrive and depart from the boat so the possibility of it getting to the level of cycling on the switch is remote. A bigger (back up)pump for auto operation at a deeper bige level and/or mannual operation wouldn't totally solve the problem of frequent cycling of the pump on the auto switch (the smaller hose may reduce it just a little, I guess), it would require another hole be drilled in the transom though and another hose strung out from stern to bilge (an unattractive return on investment I think). I've often though that a float switch that had a wider dead band between turning on and off might be a good idea, letting the bilge water build up to the point where the pump would actually have more then a mere a hoseful plus a squirt of water to remove from the bilge to open the low event switch on the float. Then again allowing MORE water to build up in the bilge before turning on the pump at all is counter intuitive to the sole function of the auto switch - keeping the keel off the bottom while I'm away.
Two for safety
It is on my to do list to install a second pump. This is primarily for safety in case one pump fails or to buy a little time if holed. The Pearson has a fairly deep bilge and my hose is fairly long going out the back of the boat. About 18' if I remember correctly. There seems to be a maximum of maybe a pint of back flow. Of course there is only about a gallon when the pump turns on. I plan to install the second pump in the sump that collects water from the shower and sink in the head. With a hole cut in the top of the sump it should turn on when the water gets almost to the sole.
It is on my to do list to install a second pump. This is primarily for safety in case one pump fails or to buy a little time if holed. The Pearson has a fairly deep bilge and my hose is fairly long going out the back of the boat. About 18' if I remember correctly. There seems to be a maximum of maybe a pint of back flow. Of course there is only about a gallon when the pump turns on. I plan to install the second pump in the sump that collects water from the shower and sink in the head. With a hole cut in the top of the sump it should turn on when the water gets almost to the sole.
Second pump experience
What I did was install a large 3500gph pump about 6 inches above the floor of the bilge on a bridge platform along with an enclosed float switch. It exhaust through the stern of the boat with a 1 1/2 inch hose. A second 500gph pump with its own internal float switch and filter is installed on the floor of the bilge, forward. It has IC circuit that checks for water ever 10minutes and uses little power. This small pump has a 3/4 inch outlet. I reduced that down to a 1/2 inch outlet and expanded it up to a 3/4 thru-hull very high on the beam of the boat to reduce the back flow length. It does that well. Since most of my water comes through air conditioning and rain down the mast I build a small 1 1/2 inch high dam in the bilge to confine this water to the forward area of the small pump. If a little water gets into the large pump bilge area I just hand pump it over the little dam when leaving the boat. This has worked well for 2 years. Some of my final duties when closing up the boat is to cycle each bilge pump. The idea originally came out of one of Don Casey's books, "This Old Book", Page 281. Goodwinds Dave M s/v DAMWEGAS
What I did was install a large 3500gph pump about 6 inches above the floor of the bilge on a bridge platform along with an enclosed float switch. It exhaust through the stern of the boat with a 1 1/2 inch hose. A second 500gph pump with its own internal float switch and filter is installed on the floor of the bilge, forward. It has IC circuit that checks for water ever 10minutes and uses little power. This small pump has a 3/4 inch outlet. I reduced that down to a 1/2 inch outlet and expanded it up to a 3/4 thru-hull very high on the beam of the boat to reduce the back flow length. It does that well. Since most of my water comes through air conditioning and rain down the mast I build a small 1 1/2 inch high dam in the bilge to confine this water to the forward area of the small pump. If a little water gets into the large pump bilge area I just hand pump it over the little dam when leaving the boat. This has worked well for 2 years. Some of my final duties when closing up the boat is to cycle each bilge pump. The idea originally came out of one of Don Casey's books, "This Old Book", Page 281. Goodwinds Dave M s/v DAMWEGAS
two pumps
Hello, My boat (86 Newport 28) came with two bilge pumps, one that is electric (and I think automatic, although I have never seen or heard it work automatically) and can be switched on, and a manual with the pump located in the cockpit. The pickup for the manual is lower than for the electric. I have flushed the bilge with the electric and there is a good amount of backwash. My solution is to use the manual, which does a very good job of emptying the bilge. Don't most boats have manual bilge pumps or did the previous owner do something special? Thanks, Barry
Hello, My boat (86 Newport 28) came with two bilge pumps, one that is electric (and I think automatic, although I have never seen or heard it work automatically) and can be switched on, and a manual with the pump located in the cockpit. The pickup for the manual is lower than for the electric. I have flushed the bilge with the electric and there is a good amount of backwash. My solution is to use the manual, which does a very good job of emptying the bilge. Don't most boats have manual bilge pumps or did the previous owner do something special? Thanks, Barry
most have a manuel pump
But unfortunately most boats sink tied to the dock with no one to use the pump!!!!
But unfortunately most boats sink tied to the dock with no one to use the pump!!!!
My Hunter didn't have a dedicated manual pump.
It has two electric pumps, one for the shower stall and one for the main bilge. I bought two hand pumps, which can be used anywhere. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
It has two electric pumps, one for the shower stall and one for the main bilge. I bought two hand pumps, which can be used anywhere. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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