Bilge full of water

[Witzend]

We launched Witz End on Thursday. She was dry all winter.
Today we went to bring her around Turkey Point ~4 hr run in 15-20knts EENE.
Checked the bilge and packing drip after we launched and before we left...Dry.
We had the rail down on both sides on a starboard favored tac against the tide, as we beat our way up the Elk. When we got to the mooring, I checked the bilge and it was full! Raw water was coming from the compartment just aft of the floor access cover, but nothing coming through the tube from the compartment further aft under the engine. At this point I'm thinking that her deck to hull seam at the rail is leaking on the port or starboard side rather profusely. Has anyone else had this happen before. If so how did you resolve the leak?
I'm considering running a bead of 5200 under the toe rail at the hull seam.

 

[Long Story]

Before you get excited about a rail leak: 1) Not sure where Elk River is but, if it is salt water test the water in our bilge to see if it is fresh or salt. 2) Do you have a water pump leak, or cooling hose? 3) If your sailing fresh water also check for leak from your water tank, hot water tank, and any pressure water lines to the sinks. (after winter layup you sometimes develop a crack in the plastic fittings that will leak. 4) My 2001 has an outlet for the bilge pump through the hull, port side that is under water on stb tack. (bad placement) If you have the same check to be sure your not pulling water in through there. I would start here because believe it or not hull to deck leaks are very rare with the Catalina line.

 

[Witzend]

Thanks, L.S. for your input.
1) water is raw water, not fresh, and no leaks from my recommissioned water system after a few days pressurized, bilge dry.
3) no leaks from packing glad.
4) boat leaks only when healed over.
5) water is coming in from compartment just aft, but forward of the engine. There are two thru hull in the section, both are under the sink in the head. The A/C water outlet is normally above the water line, so it is the only one that is suspect right now.
Other than that I'm not sure what else could be causing this other than the hull to deck seal?

 

[MarkZ]

5) water is coming in from compartment just aft, but forward of the engine. There are two thru hull in the section, both are under the sink in the head.

Witzend, keep in mind that any water aft of the engine is ported around the engine compartment and into the compartment just forward of the engine. This may be the compartment you're describing, so don't be deceived into thinking the source of your leak is within only this compartment. It may be anywhere aft of there, too.

 

[Witzend]

Mark, if you look carefully, there is a tube that connects from the compartment under the engine well, this is the path the water takes from aft into my wet compartment. I can see that the tube and what was just on the other was dry. I also checked all the areas under the aft berth cushions including the lazarette, all section were dry, but thanks for the heads up.

 

[MarkZ]

Sounds like you've done a thorough investigation thus far, Witz. Another thing you could try is drawing a grid of lines with chalk in the bilge and then go sailing briefly. Where the chalk erodes away because of the water stream may help lead you to the source. Of course one problem is that you have very limited access in the bilge to draw the lines, but even if you have to draw them near the centerline of the boat you should at least be able to narrow down to which side the leak is on.

But don't have too much fun and sail too long because the bilge may fill up and wash away all your lines!

 

[rpwillia]

How about the Rudder Shaft packing?

I understand those can let water in if they work loose and you heal a bit.

 

[Witzend]

Sounds like you've done a thorough investigation thus far, Witz. Another thing you could try is drawing a grid of lines with chalk in the bilge and then go sailing briefly. Where the chalk erodes away because of the water stream may help lead you to the source. Of course one problem is that you have very limited access in the bilge to draw the lines, but even if you have to draw them near the centerline of the boat you should at least be able to narrow down to which side the leak is on.

But don't have too much fun and sail too long because the bilge may fill up and wash away all your lines!

Good Idea with the chalk for locating leaks!!
I think I will first start by simply heeling to Starboard for a period and then checking for water, and if none, then to port.

 

[Albanach]

I had the same symptoms, which all pointed to a leak from the rubstrake fastener in port rear– turned out to be the rudder gland. The water turned up in the compartment in front of the engine and seemed to have by-passed the ngine compartment.

Following is an excerpt from Catalina:

“(lightly tightening those bolts with a wrench or socket, just enough to keep the upper and lower portions together and not to overly compress the packing in between). They really don't have to be much more than finger tight since there is little pressure on the packing and the packing is at or above water line level which means water is only going to have a chance to come in when there is rocking at dock or under power or a fair amount of heel under sail.”

 

[rpwillia]

Reminds me of a Cruise Ship Joke

... if it is salt water test the water in our bilge to see if it is fresh or salt ...

There is always a rumor on the Cruise Ships that the toilets are flushed with salt water. Problem is how do you know? For the record I have no idea and not all that anxious to find out.

 

[Witzend]

I had the same symptoms, which all pointed to a leak from the rubstrake fastener in port rear– turned out to be the rudder gland. The water turned up in the compartment in front of the engine and seemed to have by-passed the ngine compartment.

Yea the engine compartment is isolated as such to prevent water and oil mixing. The compartments under the plywood of the aft birth port and starboard are dry. These are the only other pathways for water to get where I'm finding it from aft.

 

[Albanach]

True-my ingress had been hiding under a cable run-could not see it, only just feel the damp. Would not hurt to check the gland screws though-mine were actually loose to the touch.

 

[truckman]

I know that our boat had water coming in from the rudder gland. It was impossible to tell afterwards as it drips down the rudder shaft then under all the wiring and hoses that run forward from that point. If you want to see if that is the problem or just to eliminate that as a potential source. Just go out and have someone down below watching for water coming up through the rudder packing gland. It will be underwater at extreme angles of heal possibly, but more likely under 3/4 or more power the aft portion of the boat digs into the water and that is where you will easily tell if it is leaking or not.

Good luck.

 

[Stu Jackson]

witz, we have experienced issues with the TUBE that supports the rudder. Here's how ours are built: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Packing_Gland

Some have reported that the tube itself started leaking, and have repaired it with MarineTex.

 

[Witzend]

We had a great sail today down the Elk and out into the bay as far as the mouth of the Sassafras.
Before we left I checked the bulk head under the head sink that discharges the cooling water for the air conditioner condenser located above the water line. The backing nut was very loose, I tightened it.
We had gusts up to 25kn and under reefed sails we had the rail down for a good period of time on both tacks, no water leaking anymore.
Rudder packing was fine no leaks present. So I think I'm good.
Thanks for all the input!!!
Witz