Big Thanks to MaineSail and lots of engine questions

Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
A little background, my wife and I bought a Catalina 310 in December moving up from a C&C 24. We had an outboard on the C&C and I came to know that engine well. Did all my own maintenance and feel this is important on any boat because if something goes wrong when you are out there you are on your own.

So now I have my first diesel engine and I am starting to get to know this engine. I am a real rookie at this so I am sure some of my questions will make you roll your eyes at how stupid they are.

Thank you for all of the content you have put up on your website and the forums. Without that I would not have had the confidence to start on any of the engine work. When you write your book, I will be in line to buy one of the first copies.

So to my endless list of questions. I went to the boat yesterday and spent some quality time with the engine. Some of my questions will be in the realm of "can this wait until next year?" We bought the boat on the hard about an hour and a half from our house. Our home marina is only about 15 minutes from the house. So I intended to put off things as much as possible for this year and do them next year. It is not laziness, just logistics.

General Engine

The first photo is the general condition of the engine. With the exception of the hose from the rw pump to the heat exchanger, the condition seems pretty good. There are a lot of little rust spots that I intend to sand and paint to match the rest of the engine.

1) What should I use to clean the engine? I was thinking a mild degreaser like diluted simple green.

2) Is there anything else you noticed from the photo that needs to be addressed?

Heat Exchanger


The first thing I did was remove the heat exchanger end cap and zinc to inspect the heat exchanger. When I asked the PO if he has ever cleaned the exchanger, he looked at me like I was speaking Greek. But he proudly pronounced that he changed the zinc every year. Thanks to your website I wasn't surprised at what I found when I removed the end cap (see next photo). I cleaned all of the remnants out and cleaned and returned the cap. The non-zinc side looked fine but I forgot to take a photo.

3) I think I need to remove the heat exchanger and do a complete cleaning. But do you think that could wait until next year?

4) When I remove the zinc, it was coating with a tan, sand-like material (see photo), what is this?

Raw Water Pump

This was another item that gave me a little concern during the survey. When I asked the PO when was the last time he changed the impeller, he couldn't remember ever changing it after the break in service. The engine had under 500 hours on it and the surveyor didn't think it was a big deal but that I should do it before the boat went in the water. I also talked to the yard manager, who had change the engine coolant that spring, and he said the engine ran great when they did that work. So I removed the front of the pump, disconnected the hose to the heat exchanger for replacement and remove the old impeller. The impeller was misshaped when I removed it (see photo).

5) Is this misshaping normal or does this mean there is something else wrong that I should look at?

6) Should I use an OEM impeller to replace it?

7) Is there more I should be doing to the RW pump? If so, can it wait until next year?

8) What hose material do you recommend for going from the pump to the heat exchanger?

Stuffing Box

One of the items that had to be done from the survey was to replace the hose clamps on the stuffing box. One of the 4 literally disintegrated in the surveyor's hand. So I replaced all four yesterday. I used stainless steal hose clamps that are the type that are not perforated for the worm drive (they are move like indents).

9) Should I have used a t-bolt or something else?

Also, there is a lot of patina on the stuffing box, shaft and the bilge (see photo). I also think the stuffing box needs to be repacked.

10) How can I tell if the stuffing box needs to be repacked? (I want to wait until next year if possible)

11) What should I use to clean the patina?

You can also see in that photo that the connection between the shaft and transmission (I don't know what that is called, but I know to have it lap fitted) is really rusted. My thought was to sand and paint this as well.

12) Is that a good idea?

As far as the stuffing box and shaft, my eventual plan is to remove the shaft and put on a PSS similar to what you did on your C310. However, I would like that to be two or three years out due to some other big expenditures I have coming up in the future (completely stripping the bottom, outfitting the boat with proper safety gear, new running rigging, etc.).

Other things I intend to do this year before launch:

  • Check the engine oil (the PO changed during winterization)
  • Change the primary fuel filter
  • Change the secondary fuel filter
  • Change the transmission fluid (I think this has never been done)
13) Am I missing something on the annual maintenance that should be done to the engine before launch?

We also did have some fun yesterday. We did the de-naming ceremony and had the new graphics put on. Overall, I still think I got a good deal but the PO was definitely better at polishing and things like that than engine work.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

JK
 

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Feb 26, 2004
22,782
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Engine questions

With your C310 you most likely have an M25XP. Some good resources for you:

1. http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page Scroll down to engine and fuel and stuffing box

2. This forum has a C310 group, just hover your mouse over FORUMS at the top right.

Congratulations on your new boat and welcome, we're all here to help.

Stu
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,675
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
1) What should I use to clean the engine? I was thinking a mild degreaser like diluted simple green.
Any commercial engine degreaser. I tend to like "Gunk" but it stinks to high heaven. Microfiber rags and a decent degreaser will work well.

2) Is there anything else you noticed from the photo that needs to be addressed?
Something on the front of the engine appears to be leaking as evidenced by the rust. Could just be a loose hose.

3) I think I need to remove the heat exchanger and do a complete cleaning. But do you think that could wait until next year?
The tubes look pretty good. Clean out the zinc crud, install a new o-ring and gasket and move on. TIP: I use TefGel on both sides of the gasket and smeared on the HX and cap. Do not over tighten and you'll all but stop that white/green corrosion that occurs on those HX caps.

4) When I remove the zinc, it was coating with a tan, sand-like material (see photo), what is this?
That is the normal degradation process of a zinc in an HX. That is where all the junk comes from. Change them once every 5 to 7 weeks and you'll never have that flaking crud issue again.


5) Is this misshaping normal or does this mean there is something else wrong that I should look at?
Impellers, IMHO, should be replaced yearly anyway. I remove mine in the fall and keep it as a back up. The previous years back up is then thrown away as the rubber dry rots over time anyway.

6) Should I use an OEM impeller to replace it?
IMHO yes. I have seen far to many issues with aftermarket "will fit" impellers.

7) Is there more I should be doing to the RW pump? If so, can it wait until next year?
Just replace the impeller and keep an eye on the weep hole. If it begins to leak from the weep hole it needs a re-build.

8) What hose material do you recommend for going from the pump to the heat exchanger?
That hose is a fairly straight run with no twists or bends so any heavy walled radiator hose will work. If the hose bends you'll want a good wire reinforced marine wet exhaust hose. On the suction side of the pump I always use wire reinforced as I have seen non-reinforced collapse under suction.

Stuffing Box

One of the items that had to be done from the survey was to replace the hose clamps on the stuffing box. One of the 4 literally disintegrated in the surveyor's hand. So I replaced all four yesterday. I used stainless steal hose clamps that are the type that are not perforated for the worm drive (they are move like indents).

9) Should I have used a t-bolt or something else?
No the AWAB style are fine. I do however tend to prefer the real AWAB brand as they are far more robustly built than many of the AWAB knock offs.

Also, there is a lot of patina on the stuffing box, shaft and the bilge (see photo). I also think the stuffing box needs to be repacked.
It just looks bad. If you feel the need to clean it go for it but it won't hurt anything as that is just what bronze does...

10) How can I tell if the stuffing box needs to be repacked? (I want to wait until next year if possible)
If you have to ask might as well learn to do it. Packing is less than $3.00 per foot for Duramax Ultra-X at Hamilton Marine. I would urge you to go with Gore GFO or Ultra-X.

11) What should I use to clean the patina?
Sometimes I mix up a weak acid solution and brush it on with a chip brush. Once clean looking rinse with water and neutralize with a baking soda/water mix. Don't over do it with acid!

You can also see in that photo that the connection between the shaft and transmission (I don't know what that is called, but I know to have it lap fitted) is really rusted. My thought was to sand and paint this as well.
Catalina doe not paint their couplings and they rust fast especially with a leaking stuffing box. You don't need to lap fit that just clean it and brush on some wheel bearing grease to prevent further corrosion or you can use a rust converter like Ospho. If you ever have to pull the shaft then you'd just replace it.

As far as the stuffing box and shaft, my eventual plan is to remove the shaft and put on a PSS similar to what you did on your C310. However, I would like that to be two or three years out due to some other big expenditures I have coming up in the future (completely stripping the bottom, outfitting the boat with proper safety gear, new running rigging, etc.).
You know with the advances in packings like Ultra-X and Gore GFO you can get darn close to a dry bilge with the new stuff so re-pack first and see how it goes..


Other things I intend to do this year before launch:

  • Check the engine oil (the PO changed during winterization)
  • Change the primary fuel filter
  • Change the secondary fuel filter
  • Change the transmission fluid (I think this has never been done)
The transmission oil on these should be changed yearly if you want to maximize life!!

13) Am I missing something on the annual maintenance that should be done to the engine before launch?
Just check all hoses for chafe, wires for chafe, antifreeze level, antifreeze test and check and tighten the belt.


P.S. Was it you and your wife I met at the NEBS?
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Thanks Maine Sail. Your response is a big help.

Yes that was my wife and I that you met at the NEBS.

What did you think of the show this year? There were a couple of good seminars that we went to. The best one was building fiberglass boats with Tom Schock.

Thanks again.

JK
 
Oct 31, 2005
16
Catalina C310 Dana Point, CA
JK-
Welcome to you and your wife as a new C310 owner.
I looked at your message and photos and would like to offer a suggestion. On the engine photo it appears that the raw water pump has been replaced and the pump didn't have any paint on the steel casting part. Then to add "insult to injury" the output hose (as you've stated) needs replacing and has most likely been leaking onto the unpainted steel body. Unfortunately, those raw water pumps are getting quite costly, and they can tend to be a bit fussy and want some attention from time to time.
I would highly suggest when you change the hose from the output to the heat exchanger that you remove the pump and check the bearings to be sure they are not corroded and spin freely. If they are OK and there is no evidence of the internal shaft seal leaking from the weep holes, then clean up the rust and primer and paint the rusted pump body. You will definitely want to check the weep holes for any water seepage as an frequent item to check and take action to be sure those bearings stay in good shape. Since this pump is direct drive off the cam shaft--if those bearings seize then it can get really costly to fix.
When you change the hose from the pump to heat exchanger, be careful of alternator wires that may be "tucked" under the alternator and adjacent to that hose. I also added a short piece of larger hose as a chafe guard in that area under the alternator.
Hope this helps and that you enjoy the C310 as much as we have.
Gary