Big enough?

Paul Brinkley · Feb 12, 2010

Jimmyb- I would not size my boat for one lake (a small one, at that) unless I was going to do the great majority of my sailing there. If you limit yourself this way, you will probably regret it when you go somewhere else where you could use a larger boat. In addition to the lake size, consider how many people you will carry, how you want the cabin equipped (portapotty, stove, sink, etc.) how long you will stay on the boat (a night or 2, or a week), where else you might go, and if you will singlehand or need crew. If you are trailer sailing, consider what you have to pull it with, and how hard it is to launch and retrieve. I know its a lot to consider, but better to do it now than after you have bought a boat in haste. Make the right choice for what you want to do, and then go and enjoy it. Welcome to the web site, and to sailing. -Paul

sinnettc · Feb 12, 2010

Max length, according to http://www.eastotis.com/htm/reservoir.htm, is 23 feet. It's not clear whether that's LOA (length overall) or LWL (Length of Waterline) so you probably don't want to go as big as my Capri 22.

There are some pretty decent pocket cruisers in the 15-20 foot range that would probably fit the bill and not be too huge for your reservoir nor too small to sail in a harbor/bay - Montgomery 17, Catalina Capri 18, West-Wight Potter, etc. If the lake runs shallow you might want to consider a wing or swing keel. Not sure how far it is from you but there was a potter on craigslist in Windsor last month.

If you decide to go with a day sailor I can recommend the Catalina Capri 16.5. Fun boat and pretty easy to sail. Not one you can sleep on though. The Oday 17 and 19 are probably easier to find and are quite popular.

If you've never sailed it would be worth your time/money to take some lessons, especially before venturing out on a bay. It might be a bit of a drive, but the Community Boating organization on the Charles River in Boston has a good reputation from what I've heard.

Good luck hunting for your first sailboat!

Chris

novelman17130 · Feb 12, 2010

jimmyb said:
Hello folks,
Help a new guy if you would. Will be starting to sail this upcoming season when ice breaks here in Ma. I know from many activities such as competative shooting, motocross, ect. that access to ranges or tracks for example is directly related to how much time I will be able to spend doing what I want to do... sail. Im located 1 1/2 hrs from Ct shore and 2 1/2 hrs from bays in Ma. and plan on picking up daysailer or pocket crusier. The latter would be nice if I could find a few places to sail bays and stay over in the boat camping. Im used to sleeping on the ground in backpack tents so believe it or not Ill probably be comfy in a small cabin... other than the motion thing, seldom has my tent rocked through the night.

I do have Otis Resivour here 45min. away. Great campground and boat launch. I could stay weekends or run up for a daysail. Question is its 1085 acres. approx. 3 miles longest point. What size boat is too big for this body of water. I plan on a 16-18 ft boat for ease of trailering right now. Easier on my budget as well. I will be taking some lessons in the spring but would like to start my search for a boat now in case a great deal comes along.
If anyone has the time Google Otis resivour Otis/Tolland Ma and take a look. Am I way out of line here, maybe this is sailfish territory...dont want to look like im boating in my bathtub . Sorry for being totaly ignorant. God Bless, jimmyb

jimmyb,
I would look at 22' Catalinas, MacGregors, Ventures, etc. They are all small enough to easily trailer with almost any full sized vehicle and they are CHEAP ($1,500 to $3,000 with outboards and trailers here on the west coast), with the possible exception of the Catalinas. They all have swing keels, easy to raise the masts (witih mast raising kits), easy to handle, easy to launch and retrieve, have adiquate room to sleep and are FUN to learn on and sail, even single hand. Once you learn to sail them you can go almost anwhere in lakes and costal sailing. When I had mine we regularly saile to Catalina Island as well as along the Southern California coast.
novelman

olsalt · Feb 13, 2010

Do It Now

Advice that I followed, from an experienced sailor -"Do it cheap, do it small, do it now."

Worked for me....

Dan Hill · Feb 13, 2010

We started with a $2500.00 mac/venture 22 on the Finger lakes in NY. Small enough to trailer with an average size vehicle. Cheap enough that we were not worried about "learning curve" damage, and there was some. Finger lakes long but not wide, narrow enough to swim if needed.

Take olsalt's advice and don't worry about image. "Do it cheap, do it small, do it now."

JerryA · Feb 13, 2010

Setup & Teardown

If you are going to be trailering to each destination, then something to consider is setup and teardown time. Setup is almost always fun. Teardown always seems to drag on forever on a hot afternoon. I started with a $250 Precision 13 (looks like Laser), and taught myself on this little boat. Then the wife & I moved up to a Hunter 170. This was a wonderful boat to sail & looked sharp, also setup & teardown was about 30min. each. Since there has been several reports of cracks in the H170's, I probably wouldn't buy a second one. I feel like I was the only owner to have never experienced cracks. Anyway, a boat of that size was fun to trailer around and launched easily. I now have a Precision 23 which I love. It's a trailerable, but takes a good hour to setup and teardown which in my opinion detracts from doing day sails, especially if you need to travel 2 hours each way too. I keep mine in the water throughout the summer to make sailing more enjoyable.

If I couldn't keep mine at a slip, I would probably go back to a smaller 16-18' boat just to keep it fun. You say you like camping in a tent, you could always consider a daysailer and pitch a boom tent at night. I would also consider the P16 & P18 if I downsized as well as what the others have suggested. Most importantly... get on the water. That's where it all comes together.

JerryA

shemandr · Feb 13, 2010

In addition to the above I would probably look for a metal centerboard for the additional weight and stability it offers. A O'Day Mariner 19, or a Rhodes 19 which are the same is a good choice. Fixed keels will sail better but some form of retractable is almost mandatory for launching especially at ramps with varying characteristics in depth. If you are sailing the Ct. Coast and only lauch/haul once a year I would opt for a fixed keel. If it is lakes, something beachable and camping gear could provide some wonderful experiences. Also, you don't have to buy the boat for the rest of your life. Find something that fits how you will actually use it and when your needs change sell it and buy something that fits the new reality. In the arena of used sailboats you do not have to spend a fortune to learn and enjoy sailing.

Ross · Feb 13, 2010

Since we don't know which direction you must travel to reach Otis Res. this option may not work at all. The Hudson River is only anbout 40 miles form Otis, MA. Lake Champlain is as close as the Massachusetts bays. The Connecticut River is also an option for a small boat.

Rick Webb · Feb 13, 2010

I'd Look at the Hunter-19

Little sister to the 26 and 23.5. After you get the hang of it you can be sailing away 30 minutes after getting to the ramp. You won't need a truck to drag it around and there are a few in your area for sale listed on this site.

http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&Itemid=264&page=showad&adid=8821

http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&Itemid=264&page=showad&adid=9086

sailingdog · Feb 13, 2010

Just curious as to where you could be that you're 2.5 hours from the sea in massachusetts. The state is only 120 miles wide, not counting Cape Cod...and can be crossed in two hours. Keeping a boat in Buzzards Bay would be my suggestion, since it has access to a lot of great sailing destinations. Many marinas in the area will allow you to dry sail your boat, keeping it on the trailer until you need it. This is usually a good deal less expensive than keeping the boat in a slip.

jimmyb said:
Hello folks,
Help a new guy if you would. Will be starting to sail this upcoming season when ice breaks here in Ma. I know from many activities such as competative shooting, motocross, ect. that access to ranges or tracks for example is directly related to how much time I will be able to spend doing what I want to do... sail. Im located 1 1/2 hrs from Ct shore and 2 1/2 hrs from bays in Ma. and plan on picking up daysailer or pocket crusier. The latter would be nice if I could find a few places to sail bays and stay over in the boat camping. Im used to sleeping on the ground in backpack tents so believe it or not Ill probably be comfy in a small cabin... other than the motion thing, seldom has my tent rocked through the night.

I do have Otis Resivour here 45min. away. Great campground and boat launch. I could stay weekends or run up for a daysail. Question is its 1085 acres. approx. 3 miles longest point. What size boat is too big for this body of water. I plan on a 16-18 ft boat for ease of trailering right now. Easier on my budget as well. I will be taking some lessons in the spring but would like to start my search for a boat now in case a great deal comes along.
If anyone has the time Google Otis resivour Otis/Tolland Ma and take a look. Am I way out of line here, maybe this is sailfish territory...dont want to look like im boating in my bathtub . Sorry for being totaly ignorant. God Bless, jimmyb

BobM · Feb 13, 2010

Must be out in Great Barrington or somewhere miles from the Pike.

Otis looks like a fine place to sail something in the 12-20 foot range, but you need local knowledge of the depth to be sure. Average depth is about 15 feet. Take a drive around it in the summer. If you see nothing but hobie cats and sunfish you know wha the limitations are. There is a marina (J&D) that might be able to help you too.

Others are right that it takes an exponentially greater time to rig a 25 foot boat than a 20-22 foot boat. If you can't walk the mast up then usually systems to raise the mast need be be elaborate to ensure the mast is under control. It gets more challenging to find a ramp to launch a boat with any kind of keel as well. There are some specialty boats with hinged masts to aid in stepping, but they are fairly new and expensive. Likewise you could get a motor sailor, like a Mac and store it further up one of the rivers and then power out to sea, but they are fairly expensive too.

I'd suggest getting something you can trailer, but only to store it in the winter in you yard or at a storage facility. Winter storage is where the big bucks come out. I pay $1800/year in Winthrop. However, the fees for mooring my boat, including excise, water way fee and mooring maintenance are only about $500. Get on a waiting list at a place in striking distance (1.5 hours) like Milford CT, a nice little town with marinas and restaurants. Their rates for a river mooring in the Housatonic or for a floating dock spot are not unreasonable. That is how I started. As a bonus, you get to sail more rather than rig the boat , something that can be frustrating and impact the mental attitude of a significant other negatively regarding your new hobby.

BobM · Feb 13, 2010

By the way, always willing to give a guy a free sail in Winthrop. It's just past Logan off rte. 145.

Sumner · Feb 13, 2010

jimmyb said:
Hello folks, Help a new guy if you would. Will be starting to sail this upcoming season when ice breaks here in Ma................. Easier on my budget as well........... God Bless, jimmyb

Do you mind sharing what your budget is? That might help in offering suggestions.

Also I don't know if you are aware of searching Craigs List nation wide. This is how we found our Mac. Just find the boat in the list you are interested in. You can regionalize it also.....

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.c...c=&fil=&ys=&ye=&ps=&pe=&pgs=100&submit=++++go++++

Good luck and I'll put in a parting promotion for our Mac 26. Since it is a water ballast boat it will have the weight of the smaller boats that have been mentioned while on the trailer, yet have the room to be more comfortable if you like to do extended trips like we have. If you intend pulling it with a small vehicle though I wouldn't recommend it even though it doesn't weigh that much. It is still a long boat. If you look at our links below for our trips you can see how we have it setup for extended cruising. We were out on a one month trip and another of 18 days on the water last year and hope to be out with it up to 3 months at a time this year. If you have the right person for a partner like I'm fortunate to have you can do these long trips with this boat. Now if you were just interested in weekend and day sailing restricted mostly to the lake you mentioned I'd go with one of the smaller boats.

The mac is very quick to setup, stepping the mast and all for day sailing. Under an hour and can be done single handed with the simple mast raising system.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

There has been a lot of good advice given to you in this thread, but the best was "do it now",

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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greenminnow · Feb 13, 2010

Some of the boats that pop in my mind are as follows; Compac 17' Sun Cat, West Weight Potter 15, Peep Hen 14, Bay Hen 21', and Mud Hen 17'. These boats can be seen at www.sailingtexas.com in the photo gallery. The Potter is a sloop with 2 sails and you have to step or put the mast and boom up and down. It will sleep 2 in the cabin. The rest of the boats all have cabins that will sleep 2 or more. They are "Cat Boats" equipped with swing-up (hinged) masts. The sail stays on along with the boom. They take 10 minutes or less to set-up and or take down. They may be towed with a normal vehicle. The less time spent setting up and taking down the more you will use and enjoy your boat! I sail many small and large bodies of water with my boat (14' Peep Hen) As they say; "Small Boat, Big Adventure" Cheers to ya, Brian

sinnettc · Feb 13, 2010

Looks like that one's sold. Too bad, it's a great boat.

The Capri 22 wing keel will sit much lower on the trailer than the fin keel at the link. I haven't been on one but they're supposed to be a bit more tender (tippy) and don't go to windward quite as well as the fin keel. That's true of any wing keel though.

If you're going to be raising the mast yourself by hand I recommend that you stay away from the tall rig like I have - I'm 49 and I cannot raise the mast without 3 people or the mast winch at the marina.

Chris

sinnettc · Feb 13, 2010

Found a Capri 18 for you in CT:http://www.trailersailor.com/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&Itemid=299&page=showad&adid=9596

http://www.trailersailor.com/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&Itemid=299&page=showad&adid=9597

sailingdog · Feb 14, 2010

Well, if you're ever out Buzzards Bay way and want to sail, let me know. Good luck.

novelman17130 · Feb 15, 2010

jimmyb said:
Hello folks,
Help a new guy if you would. Will be starting to sail this upcoming season when ice breaks here in Ma. I know from many activities such as competative shooting, motocross, ect. that access to ranges or tracks for example is directly related to how much time I will be able to spend doing what I want to do... sail. Im located 1 1/2 hrs from Ct shore and 2 1/2 hrs from bays in Ma. and plan on picking up daysailer or pocket crusier. The latter would be nice if I could find a few places to sail bays and stay over in the boat camping. Im used to sleeping on the ground in backpack tents so believe it or not Ill probably be comfy in a small cabin... other than the motion thing, seldom has my tent rocked through the night.

I do have Otis Resivour here 45min. away. Great campground and boat launch. I could stay weekends or run up for a daysail. Question is its 1085 acres. approx. 3 miles longest point. What size boat is too big for this body of water. I plan on a 16-18 ft boat for ease of trailering right now. Easier on my budget as well. I will be taking some lessons in the spring but would like to start my search for a boat now in case a great deal comes along.
If anyone has the time Google Otis resivour Otis/Tolland Ma and take a look. Am I way out of line here, maybe this is sailfish territory...dont want to look like im boating in my bathtub . Sorry for being totaly ignorant. God Bless, jimmyb

Jimmy,
All of the boats mentioned EXCEPT the Potter coulld work BUT I can tell you from experience that the 15' Potter is EASY to turn over since it does not have a weighted keel only a light drop keel that wiill turn over and go upside down.
novelman