Best Pocket Cruiser 23ft or under?

njerrell · Apr 15, 2009

How about a Com-Pac 23,I think you could find one in your range and is a better value than the catalina 22 im my opinion,the bennie 235 is a fine boat but more on the performance side rather than a cruiser.
Nathan

48dodge · Apr 15, 2009

A good book to read that might give you a good idea on some trailerables is Sailing Big on a Small Sailboat by Jerry Cardwell. Also, if your budget is $10K, you may want to save a little bit of that money for outfitting it and initial expenses. All sorts of good boats around that size for that money.

Chris Blubaugh · Apr 15, 2009

Take a look at

Precision sailboats. Both a 21 and 23-foot model are available - but you should consider what your tow vehicle can handle and add up the weight of boat, trailer, accessories and passengers you intend to have...

Are you familiar with Strictly Sail, in Cincinnati? You can look them up on the web and see what they have in-stock. Not too far from where you are, I think (2 hrs).

Good luck!

Broke sailor SV Marcell · Apr 15, 2009

Pacific Seacraft Flika or a Lyle Hess Falmouth Cutter. The best small boats made.

Steve W (NY) · Apr 15, 2009

I think you will like a Catalina 22 just fine. They aren't fast, but they aren't slow either. They trailer well. Broke Sailor must have missed the trailering requirement. The Precisions are good, but with a budget of 10,000, you are going to be tight. I'd get a C22, and sail it for a few years. Your mind may change, and you'll be unloading the most poular 22 footer ever built. I've sailed on a lot of boats, and a C22 with a pop top and a swing keel is the most bang for the buck ever made, when sailed in conditions it was designed for.

Take Care,
Steve

Ron20324 · Apr 15, 2009

I was looking at 25-foot boats, but when I looked at the Beneteau 235 I was hooked on the smaller size. I'd say the Beneteau 235 is the boat for you. A great performer, has a marine head, aluminum toe rail (with holes), and big deck cleats like you will not find on Catalina's. There is a terrific 235 owner's web site. Nice quarterberth, and with the filler in the vee, it's bigger than you'll find on larger boats. The Beneteau company has a good parts web page. An extra long shaft Honda 8 pushed the boat nicely. I added shore power, which was a good addition. I think 92 was the last year they made them.

fnuttersny · Apr 15, 2009

look into a rhodes 22 they can be over priced but a good one could be had around 10k....check out website google rhodes22 general boats...cheers frank

higgs · Apr 15, 2009

Forget the Flicka or the Falmoth Cutter. Both are fine boats but will be a waste of money unless you are going offshore ocean.

Do not, under any circumstances, spend the 10k you are considering on a C22.

If you go with a recognized builder you can, in your price range, find some very nice boats and many that will fit your needs for 5k or less.

If you are looking to spend 10k, I would suggest looking 25 to 30 ft.

sailingdog · Apr 16, 2009

Yes, but neither is particularly trailerable... and I believe that is one of his requirements. It isn't the best pocket cruiser <23' that he is looking for, it is the best pocket cruiser that fits his criteria <23' that he is looking for.

Besides, I seriously doubt that you could get a Flicka or Falmouth Cutter for $10,000 unless it was a complete wreck.

Broke Sailor said:
Pacific Seacraft Flika or a Lyle Hess Falmouth Cutter. The best small boats made.

sailormanbigd · Apr 16, 2009

gotta chime in. The term "pocket cruiser" does'nt really fit your criteria, namely fast-but not a racer. I think you pretty much describe the Catalina 22, Hunter 23 (the wing keeled version sails pretty fast nd feels like a bigger boat in my opinion. I agree wqith not spending 10k on initial purchase. Maybe 5-6k and leave 4k for all the goodies you will think you need later, say auto pilot, killer sound system, new canvass bimini, new sails-they make it go faster and look good, etc, etc. You did'nt say you were gonna bluewater the boat so stay away from the full keelers. The swing keel boats are more tender but are easy to trailer, launch, retrieve and almost beachable with the board up. Just about anything under 27ft should be ok to single hand.

sailormanbigd · Apr 16, 2009

hey Henry, the link of the 22 looks good but alot unsaid. What added items besides sails does it have, vhf, gps, extra winches, stereo, anchors, boarding lader, etc. These things add up real fast-REAL fast. I know your not going cheap but something else to consider. Just cuz it might have a vhf for example does'nt mean it is a "current technology" radio with all the new features. You can easily spend thousands for new cool stuff if boat is not already current.

sailormanbigd · Apr 16, 2009

hey henry, i forgot to address your last question. There is always a bigger boat you might wish you had gotten instead-BUT-bigger is not always better! It cost more for parts/repair, is harder to trailer, step mast, launch, handle, etc, etc. There is a point where the extra "WORK" of a bigger boat makes it less fun to go sailing, and can even cause you to not go for the amount of work involved, especially if you intend to "dry" sail her-launch from trailer and reload when done sailing. Just my opinion.

Stu Jackson · Apr 16, 2009

# of years with a 22 before moving to a 25

henrynlouisville said:
The only thing that concerns me is that most sailors that I have talked to say go with at least a 25'. "you wont be happy with the 22' for long". Is there a lot of merit with this?

Like everything else in sailing, it depends and their are choices.

We bought our C22 in May 1983, the C25 followed in August 1987. We used the C22 on San Francisco Bay during the winter seasons and trailered her up to Clear Lake for the summers, stayed on board weekends and holiday weekends. Got real small real soon.

TimCup · Apr 16, 2009

Henry, everyone has their own favorites..

And one guy will say buy this, the next guy says don't buy that same boat under any circumstances... gets confusing, huh?

Forget brands for a moment, look at the factors that really matter. Based on what you've written, I think you'll want a boat with a large cockpit. 2 boats the same length can have very different cockpits. The cabin size will be less important for you, as you won't be going on extended trips (the room inside isn't really for sleeping- most boats in this size sleep 4. The large cabin is more for stowage on long trips- not your thing).

I have an Oday 22, my buddy has a Columbia 23. His cockpit is way bigger, making it more comfortable for 4 or 5 at a time.

A head. Find one that will work for you and yours. If it's a porta-potty, is there any privacy to use it? Would that be important?

Auxillary power. An engine. It doesn't matter if it's inboard or outboard, but if it's inboard, most will want diesel, for safety. If it's an outboard, it's more convenient, and since that explosive fuel is OUTSIDE, the dangerous fumes becaome a total non-issue. By the way, make sure it runs PERFECTLY when you get it- you'll use it more than you think

.

Sails are expensive. Don't know much about them? Make sure they're crisp... if they're soft enough for your bed, they're worthless. Check the sails during the sea trial (you ARE going to sea trial it right???) for any patches or loose thread. And for single-handing, a furler on the foresail really makes it easy to deploy, and to reef in high winds.

Additional equipment- tiller pilot, vhf, gps, am-fm-cd-radio, chartplotters (good luck!), all these things cost money, but when it's already on a boat someone needs to sell, it hardly affects the cost. That's where you can really get a great buy.

As far as which brand? You're a lake sailor. Even in bad weather any production boat is going to be fine. Hunters, Catalinas, Odays, are all fine boats. You don't need a Flicka unless you plan on sailing to Hawaii...

Just find a boat built to your needs, that has been maintained well, and hopefully comes with equipment you'll need to enjoy it. And good luck. Keep posting, there are experts here for any question you might have.

cup

Capt. Kermie · Apr 16, 2009

henrynlouisville said:
I love this comment! Your right...should spend less to see if I like sailing.
Here is a nice example: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/Catalina-Pop-Top-1971814/Muskegon/MI/United-States

The only thing that concerns me is that most sailors that I have talked to say go with at least a 25'. "you wont be happy with the 22' for long".
Is there a lot of merit with this?

There could be a lot of merit with this.....
How big are you? Are you 6' & 200lbs or are you just a little munchkin. A 23' sailboat gets real small real fast if you are a large person and it gets smaller even faster when you have to manuever around others sharing the same space. How small is your wife and the occasional inlaws or other guests? Do you need to stand up or are you OK with being hunched over every time you go below? Someone mentioned a killer sound system...in a small boat...sounds like creature comforts are climbing up on the priority list. Do you want a place to hang out and drink a cold one on a hot afternoon, a boat can make a nice cabin on the water or just a little tree fort on the water, depends on what you want. It takes 26' to start getting comfortable in a pocket cruiser and they really start at 24' and go up to 28'.
How about pottie use, does your wife like some privacy or is she ok with an audience, what about guests or the 3 yr old? Any overnight trips? How old are you and how many creature comforts do you want? I find the older I get the more creature comforts play a role.
You are on a river with light winds, be sure the engine will overpower the current when it comes time to return to your dock. Light winds will mean a big mainsail with a big genoa sail and a light boat. It is not just about sailing but also about relaxing and you will need room to stretch your legs out and so will others. It is one thing to just go daysailing, quite another when it becomes overnight trips. Think about it.

BobM · Apr 16, 2009

I am assuming that the $10K includes the trailer. This is a key point as a decent trailer can double the price of a boat alone and the quality of the trailer is an important factor in easy of launch / retrieval. The trailer should be in good condition, a good fit for the boat and have an extended tongue for launching.

Look at some boats because you are going to find significant differences in boats in this size range, in my opinion. There are a ton of 80's Hunter 23's out there in your price range, but it has a pretty big stick and the wing keel will make launching on some ramps a challenge.

Don't underestimate how much fun raising/lowering a good sized mast will be, especially if you plan to raise and lower it often. Don't get me wrong...it can be done and has been done by many folk on this site...my Wife wouldn't deal with the added "fun and enjoyment" well though.

If you want a family friendly boat something with heavier displacement like a Chrysler 22 or O'day 23 may also suit you. Personally in a boat this size I'd prefer a swing keel or keel /enterboard for ease of loading and good performance when the keel / board is down. The relatively short stick on the O'day will be easier to deal with too and it is a big boat for its LOA.

For newer boats the water ballasted Hunter 23.5 which is right around $10K now for a mid 90's boat. There is also a larger model (26) if you get the itch for more space (but bigger boat = more work). Both are roomy with centerboards.

The Rhodes 22 has something that a lot of boats in this size range may lack...an enclosed head (O'day has one too, I beleive). An enclosed head is VERY likely to be high on the admiral's list and even your 3 year olds.

If you want newer and faster the Precision 23 is a good option, but I thought I had read that it may be a challenging boat for a beginner.

If you want to maintain flexibility a Macgregor power sailor may also be a good option.

Have fun,

Bob

JerryA · Apr 16, 2009

I know you said 23 or less, but don't rule out a Hunter 240. I looked at one that sailed in your area on the river before buying my P23. You might have a hard time finding one under $10k though, but in this economy bargins are out there.

JerryA

Scott T-Bird · Apr 17, 2009

Precision may be your best choice ...

It sounds like you are looking for better performance. Spend only half (or less) of your $10 K on the boat and allocate the rest for upgrades such as sails, hardware to set up the boat the way you like it (you'll soon figure out what your desires are) and maintenance projects. If your budget is tight, don't underestimate the costs involved in maintaining a slip or mooring and winter storage. Trailerable will serve you well in your location but gets tiresome quickly (especially for your wife and kids). You'll soon want to keep it in the water so that your trailering adventures are only occasional.

If you can't find a Precision for that price (because they are newer) you can look at Starwinds which have the same designer (Jim Taylor - who also designs Sabres) but were built in the 80's by a few different builders. Ours was built by Wellcraft which is known for quality. Starwinds are also known for their performance. There is not much difference in space or headroom from 22' to 25' and you will be cramped inside regardless. You probably will be better off with generous cockpit size rather than cabin size and you won't want a boat with a lot of headroom anyway because at that length, anything with more headroom will have too much windage, spoiling performance.

If you are sailing on a river, such as the Ohio, current will be a factor, so better upwind performance will help deal with contrary currents and windage will be your enemy. Take a look at what is being sailed most prevalently in your area and pay attention ... they are probably the boat that will be best suited anyway.

Best Pocket Cruiser 23ft or under?

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Steve W (NY)

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