Best ground tackle system for the Vega

bv0820 · Feb 1, 2005

Dieter, congradulations. I am sure that others will have very good answers and I look forward to reading them. If you ever cross the Atlantic to Florida let me know.

Good sailing

Bob Vogel
Laughing Guill 1877

dieter_mezger dieter_mezger@... wrote:

Dear Vega-Sailors

Yesterday I bought my first boat, a beautyful Albin Vega, number 3129. I'm very happy
that after many years of building the dream it came to this point.

She is located in Elmshorn near Hamburg in Germany and will stay in the winter-hall until
April.

I want to go offshore cruising for a long time and mostly live at anchor.

Because it is so essential I'm thinking what the best ground tackle system for the Vega
could be. It should be easy to release, ready to let go and easy to retrieve.So my questions are:

1. What length and strength of chain would you take? (The Pardeys had 300 feet 5/16 inch
chain on their 24 foot cutter "Seraffyn".)

2. Where to stow the chain? My Vega has no chain locker. There is some place between
the bow and the forecabin. Can this be used as a chain locker? How much chain can be
filled in there? How to let the chain go in and out of the locker? Any other systems?

3. Windlass or not?

4. What bowroller?

5. What kind of anchor? (I would go for a good sized CQR or german B?gelanker.)

6. The weight of the anchor?Please let me know what ground tackle system works good on the Vega and is a practical
choise to handle.

If you have pictures of your system, it would be fine if you send them to my email-adress:
dieter_mezger@....All the best from Stuttgart/Germany

Dieter Mezger

Vega 3129

(Her name was "Jula". I will change this but still are open for inspiration.)

svtradition · Feb 1, 2005

Hi All,

Ground tackle is always a good topic for opinions.

I've used a 22# (10kg) delta, 50 feet of 5/16" (8mm) chain and then
1/2" (12mm) 3 strand nylon on Tradition. I've found this to hold in
a variety of conditions with soft bottoms. The only time I've
dragged anchor was on rock and marl in the Bahamas. The above rode
is stored in the bow locker in front of the V-berth.

I have no windlass and hoist the anchor by sitting on the foredeck
and bracing my feet against the aft most bow pulpit vertical pipes.
I've found that my limit to pulling this up is about 30-35 knots,
more wind than this and I have to motor at idle forward and let the
boat tack back and forth on the rode.

I have a simple bow roller from "windline", it works well.

Although I'd like to carry more chain, I don't think the bow will
take it without really putting her down at the head. I'm sure you
could rig a chain pipe to stack the chain into the locker under the
V-berth and push the weight of the chain aft.

Chris
#1066 Tradition

wxt8981 · Feb 1, 2005

Hi Bob,

nice to see you're around. Guess what: I've got the flu,
and man let me tell you, I've got it good! No sailing for
the time being.

Hi Dieter; Gratuliere!

Even though I own my Vega about 30 years and sailed her
almost 50.000 Miles, I'm no expert in ground tackle. I keep
3 good sized danforth, each with only 10 foot chain, but
enough rope. I've been dragging once or twice, but was able
to stay out of trouble so far (by anchoring in protected
bays). When anchoring for the night, I set 2 anchors Bahama
style; for just lunch, I anchor the anchor astern... it's a
lot cooler that way. (but you might confuse a lot of other
sailors and see them drop the anchor, only to override the
set anchor.

I'm sailing mostly in South Florida where the bottom is
grass and muck; there you can count on a good thunderstorm
just about every night with heavy gusts. I'm always happy
to know I'm still at the same place as I was before the
storm.

By the way- my wife's from Reutlingen- und ich spreche auch
Deutsch.

Happy sailing... Wilhelm, V-257

vega1860 · Feb 1, 2005

This ought to be a good one.

FWIW, Lealea carries a 22 lb Bruce as her primary anchor with 100 ft of 3/8 inch chain and 300 feet of 5/8 inch three strand nylon for rode. We have a low-profile manual rope/chain windlass and single roller on the bow. We do not leave the anchor on the roller at sea. The chain and the anchor stow aft of the V berth just forward of the head because I don't like the iddea of all that weight in the forepeak. The chain goes in a milk crate and the anchor on a chock made of a 2X4 crosspiece.

We also carry a stern anchor, a 25 lb Danforth that came with the boat and was originally the primary anchor. At that time it was stowed in brackets on the pulpit with the rode in the forepeak locker (Lealea has a hawspipe right in the bow) For the Danforth we have 50 feet of 5/16 in chain and 150 feet of half inch nylon rope. The danforth lives in a bracket on the stern rail and the rode in a milk crate secured in the lazarette. We also have a spare 25 lb Danforth plus two 15 lb danforth type anchors, one of which is attached to 30 feet of 1/4 inch chain and about 80 feet of half inch nylon. I know that sounds like a lot of ground tackle. I started off with just the one large Danforth with the 50 ft chain/150 ft rope rode. I bought the Bruce with it's rode because I wanted two different anchors and I felt the Bruce would be a better primary hook. The others I just picked up here and there over the years; found on the bottom or left in a dock box etc. Come hurricane season, you start to thinking that you can't have too many anchors or too much rope.

We usually anchor by the Danforth because the Bruce, with it's 100 lbs of chain is a bit of a chore to get up. Laura can usually manage the Danforth without using the windlass.

Aloha,

Chuck Rose
Lealea, V1860
Honolulu

"dieter_mezger" dieter_mezger@... wrote:

captainwibbler · Feb 2, 2005

Hi Dieter,

'Fairwinds' has 33m 8mm chain spliced to 30m nylon anchorplait - this just
and no more stows in the chain locker. It is enough for any anchoring we
have had to do round Scotland, but I would like to be able to easily attach
more nylon if required and will be looking into this before we head off into
the blue.

Be sure that your anchor locker is well sealed and that it drains into the
bilge and not under the forepeak bunk cushions! The cable for our electric
windlass (see below) was 'bodged' into poition, and last year we got wet
muddy bunk cushions until I sealed the bottom of the anchor locker to
prevent water leaking under the bunk cushions.

Our primary anchor is a 10Kg (22lb) Spade, which has never dragged and sets
well even in weed. It replaced a 15Kg CQR which I thought was too big, had
to be stowed in chocks on deck and was impossible for my wife to deploy or
retrieve. It is still on board in a locker for use in extremis, although I
would normally use our 10Kg Danforth kedge as a second anchor when required.

There is a lot of recent anchor performance data available . . . general
consensus seems to be that the CQR is not as good as its reputation would
sugget and that modern types with more weight over the tip - Spade and Delta
are perhaps the best known - are better. Many charter companies use Delta,
although our choice was Spade. However, make up your own mind by having a
look at all the options. The Spade website has a good article on the
behaviour of various types of anchor under load at
http://www.spade-anchor.com/Site anglais/US/breackingup.htm (although you
have to bear in mind that they want to sell their own anchor!)

More anchor tests here

http://www.practical-sailor.com/boatus/anchors/4rhod4598/03anchor.html

and here http://www.bwsailing.com/01articles/issue/0604/specialsection.htm

or do a search on Google for anchor tests cqr danforth spade delta (or some
similar combination)

We have an electric windlass which we inherited with the boat. It doesn't
work electrically, but I have been reluctant to get rid of it because it
makes it so easy to drop the hook in a controlled manner just by releasing
the brake - no need to flake out all the chain on deck so long as your rode
is clearly marked. (Ours has ribbons at 10m, 20m and 30m which seems to be
sufficient; they have shown no signs of deteriorating or coming off in two
seasons).

The windlass is too far forward to be able to stow the Spade on the bow
roller, so we tie it up on the pulpit - not quite as good as keeping it on
the roller but better than stowing it away in a locker IMO. It c an be
untied and deployed in about a minute.

If I was starting from scratch I would probably not bother with a windlass
for this size of boat, but you will need to fit a hawse pipe. If you do want
a windass a manual one is more than sufficient. Get the smallest you can and
make sure it is set far enough back for the anchor to be able to sit on the
bow roller.

We have a double bow roller, which allows easy setting of a snubber line or
the deployment of twin rodes if necessary, and of course it also allows the
picking up of a mooring when the main rode or anchor is on the other roller.
I would regard this as essential. Steve Birch of VAGB can provide a double
bow roller kit for the Vega.

Hope this is of some help as a starting point. Happy cruising,

Nick Bowles

'Fairwinds' V1842

imbissfrank · Feb 2, 2005

Dieter,
Welcome to the Vega Club !!!
I guess this means you don't want to crew anymore, now that you have your own boat. Or??
Bist du Mitglied der Deutschen Vega Klassenvereignigung ??? If not, drop me a line. My anchoring experience pretty much mirrors Wilhelm's. , that is to say Florida, Bahamian waters. shallow not deep water anchoring. I originally carried 30 meters (about 100 feet) of 8mm (5/16 inch) chain connected to 30 meter sections of 12mm (1/2 inch) rode. I finally got tired of the wife's complaining about the weight that I switched to 20 meters (a little over 60 feet) of 6mm (1/4 inch) chain. The 20 meters of chain plus 30 meters of rode were plenty for those waters. If necessary I could shackle extra 30 meter segments to increase the total length of the rode. The chain and 30 meters of rode store easily just forward of the V-berth. My primary anchor is a 10 kg 22 pound Deepset Danforth, that has ALWAYS held, regardless of the wind. (Although I have not experienced a direct hit from a hurricane, we have ridden out our share of near misses) As a back up I carry a 25 pound CQR,
which I have never used, whenever anchoring to two anchors I've used a second Danforth also 10 kg with a little less chain. When I first switched to 6mm chain, I was a little apprehensive, but it has been over 10 years, and I repeat we have never dragged or experienced any other problems. One thing to note about the Pardey's 24 foot Seraffyn is that she was a 5 ton boat, and the Vega is truly a lightweight in comparison and the corresponding loads on her are also less. Of course the anchoring conditions in Europe are different and depending on where you intend to anchor, the anchorages could be deeper, but since coming over to the North Sea (Wyk auf Foehr), I have found the Marinas to be so reasonable, that I never anchor out. In Florida/Bahamas anchoring is the rule. Marina costs are truly prohibitive in the States re: $$$$$

dieter_mezger dieter_mezger@... wrote:

Dear Vega-Sailors

Yesterday I bought my first boat, a beautyful Albin Vega, number 3129. I'm very happy
that after many years of building the dream it came to this point.

She is located in Elmshorn near Hamburg in Germany and will stay in the winter-hall until
April.

I want to go offshore cruising for a long time and mostly live at anchor.

Because it is so essential I'm thinking what the best ground tackle system for the Vega
could be. It should be easy to release, ready to let go and easy to retrieve.So my questions are:

1. What length and strength of chain would you take? (The Pardeys had 300 feet 5/16 inch
chain on their 24 foot cutter "Seraffyn".)

2. Where to stow the chain? My Vega has no chain locker. There is some place between
the bow and the forecabin. Can this be used as a chain locker? How much chain can be
filled in there? How to let the chain go in and out of the locker? Any other systems?

3. Windlass or not?

4. What bowroller?

5. What kind of anchor? (I would go for a good sized CQR or german B?gelanker.)

6. The weight of the anchor?Please let me know what ground tackle system works good on the Vega and is a practical
choise to handle.

If you have pictures of your system, it would be fine if you send them to my email-adress:
dieter_mezger@....All the best from Stuttgart/Germany

Dieter Mezger

Vega 3129

(Her name was "Jula". I will change this but still are open for inspiration.)

stevebirch2002 · Feb 2, 2005

Hi Frank

Long time, no hear....

As you say the marinas are very reasonable in Holland and most of Europe but
beware of the UK as they are astronomical !! An example is for one night on
the Solent you will be paying between £20 - £30 for a Vega and that would
not include electricity !!

See ya

Steve Birch

pelagicasd · Feb 2, 2005

Lyric has 3 anchors. 16.5 lb Bruce and 2 Fortess FX-11s. The Bruce is on
about 200 feet of 1/4" Hi-Test chain (strength is comparable ro 3/8" Proof
Coil). The other bow anchor is one of the FXs on 300 feet of 1/2" nylon
braid. The lunch hook is on an Ankorlina with about 110 feet of 1" webbing.
Ankorlina's are great! I don't know how popular they are in Europe but they
never caught on over here in the States. I've only seen one other boat with
them. We had intended on using a FX-7 as the lunch hook but West Marine was
out of stock and it was a last minute purchase before our cruise. We also
carry 300 feet of 1/2" nylon 3 strand as spare rode.
The chain is hauled with a Simpson Lawrence Hyspeed windlass and sits in a
locker we built just aft of the origional one. It drains to the bilge. I
doubt that we ever put out more than 80 feet of the chain. In 18 months of
cruising we never used the bow Fortress.
A word of warning about the Simpson Lawrence windlass. If you are buying
used make sure you can get the rope drum off as they have away of corroding
on to the shaft. We had to cut ours off and when we went to get a new one we
found that the design had been changed. The newer ones use a smaller
diameter shaft and we had to take the replacement to a machinist to have it
bored out to fit. If you drop the handle overboard (I did) the replacement
cost was around $60.00 5 years ago. Make your own out of 1/4" aluminum. It's
alot cheaper. The chain gypsy is sized to differnet kinds of chain and you
may have to replace that as well. Simpson Lawrence carries many different
sizes but you'll have to send them 12 inches of chain so they can assure an
exact fit. The windlass retrieves the chain with a reversing mechanism. Push
the handle foward and chain comes in, pull the handle back and more chain
comes in. Its connected on the inside with a couple of pieces of chain that
resembles bicyle chain. If you break one of the chains the replacements are
expensive. Guess what, it is bicyle chain. Go to a bike shop and bring the
broken pieces with you. Ask for hi strength BMX chain. Its A LOT less
expensive. When this one breaks the next time I plan on throwing it away and
pulling by hand. I'll also carry less chain. The hole where the chain enters
the boat can let in a lot of water. We made a cover that is bolted to the
windlass and has a slot in it for the chain. Wing nut secures it in place.
We loosen the wing nut, pivot the cover and let out the chain. When in place
the cover does'nt eliminate water from coming in but it does reduce it
considerably.
I used to brag that we had never dragged the Bruce. Oops. Anchored on a
short scope last November on a low tide. When the tide came in the scope
change and we dragged. Not a big deal. We let out another 20 feet and backed
down. It held fine the rest of the night. All in all I really like the
Bruce. We did have a hard time getting it to set in a weedy bottom though.
Gave up after 3 drops and moved to a different area. We had friends on a 28
foot boat anchored next to us in Bahia Navidad. the bottom is a mix of clay
and mud. They kept dragging on a 22 lb Bruce. It would break free and drag a
ball of the mud-clay between the flukes keeping it from resetting. I think a
CQR may have been better in that bottom. Other friends in a different
anchorage dragged one night on their plow and when they retrieved it came up
with only the anchor shaft. The plow had broken off. It was a CQR knockoff.
Can you water ski with an anchor? I think it might be possible. Shortly
after I bought the first Fortress I went sailing. While motoring up one of
the San Francisco bay sloughs (tidal creek or stream) the old Albin quit
running. The tide was rushing out and a considerable wind was pushing me
against it. I figured I needed to get an anchor down and tossed out the new
Fortress. Nothing happened. The boat was all over the place. I noticed a
commotion in the water about 40 feet from the boat and realized it was my
anchor hydroplanning on the surface. So I think it would be possible to use
an aluminum anchor to ski with. Big enough anchor, fast power boat, a
shallow water start the flukes up. It could work. I solved the problem with
heavier and longer chain.
Speaking of anchoring after the motor quits. A friend helped his mother buy
a boat. They took it out, got up the main and it ripped. Started the engine
and it quit. Dropped the CQR and found it was attached to 30 feet or so of
chain which was not secured to the boat. They were in about 40 feet of water
at the time. Oh well, stuff happens. For anybody who doesn't know, never
connect the chain directly to the boat. Connect it to a piece of line and
connect that to the boat. You may have to cut it away quickly one day.
Nick, I'm thinking of going to a single braid kevlar or spectra line and
carrying about half as much chain. The new lines are so strong but not very
elastic so I'll probably use 50 feet or so of nylon between the chain and
the single braid. 1/4" Kevlar is considerably stonger than 1/2" nylon. you
could carry a tremendoulsly long rode. Might be harder to pull though. Walt

moondance5003 · Feb 2, 2005

Welcome Dieter,

I have a 15 lb. Danford, a 25 lb. CQR, and a 22 lb. Bruce. I don't
have a locker up in the bow or a windlass as of now.

Good luck,
Robert

alan_critchlow · Feb 2, 2005

Hello. Do you store the anchor on the "windline" roller? Which model
do you have? I will be buying 10 kg delta style anchor. I would like
to store this on a roller.

Our boat "Tarka the Otter" sailed around the world with four anchors.
A 35 lb fisherman, an 7 kg Bruce, a 10 kg Bruce, and a 10 lb
danforth. They used the 10 kg Bruce exclusively with 100 feet of
5/16" chain and 200 feet of braided nylon. (This anchor was not with
the boat when we bought it.) They claimed they never dragged. They
stored it in the bow pulpit. I am a little uncomfortable with that.

Alan

imbissfrank · Feb 3, 2005

Hi Steve,

Pretty much what you would pay in Florida, except electricity is included, but how much electricity do you need on a Vega in Florida ?? Incidentally, I seem to have misplaced Diana Webb's e-mail address, I need to talk to her about a dodger.

Talk to you later, FrankSteve Birch steve@... wrote:
Hi Frank

Long time, no hear....

As you say the marinas are very reasonable in Holland and most of Europe but
beware of the UK as they are astronomical !! An example is for one night on
the Solent you will be paying between ?20 - ?30 for a Vega and that would
not include electricity !!

See ya

Steve Birch

stevebirch2002 · Feb 3, 2005

Hi Frank

Diana Webb's email address is:

diana@...Cheers

Steve Birch

svtradition · Feb 7, 2005

Hi Alan,

I have a Windline CR-1 roller. I have pictures if you would like.
I store a 10kg Delta on it no problem.

Chris