Best brand and source for glass/resin

[Kopite]

Hi, it's time to buy the materials for my keel core repair. I need epoxy resin, 24oz roving and 1.5oz chopped.
I find a quite a range of costs on-line, depending on brands/sources.
Is there a suggested brand and source that is recommended ? Is there any advantage to more expensive materials and if so, what is it ? My work is structural.
Thank you !
Andrew

 

[njlarry]

IMHO West System is number one. The pumps make mixing easy, they have fantastic live phone support -when was the last time you got a human on the first ring- and they have produced some great manuals. Also the Boat Works has a lot of excellent how to fiberglass video classes on you tube.
Good luck and post some pics of your project.

 

[Kopite]

Thanks, it does seem that folks consider the West Marine to be worth the cost.

 

[woodster]

Thanks, it does seem that folks consider the West Marine to be worth the cost.

That is west system not west marine and it is an epoxy base resin
West marine just happens to sell in in there stores

 

[Ken Cross]

I've had pretty good luck with Progressive
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html
It depends on what you are doing. If you are looking for cheaper I built an entire drift boat with their epoxy.
I think I got my glass here on SBO.

Ken

 

[Kopite]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry for the typo system/marine...
Ken, I looked at the site, and it appears to be a useful resource. Was surprised that they have a temperature range down to 40F for the normal hardener, but also have one for below 45F down to 32F. As I'm working inside the boat, but the boat is outdoors, this might be interesting. I'm going to ask them about it - I can heat the boat interior, but the keel, where I'm doing the work is going to be at the external temp..

 

[Capt jgw]

I like US Composites. They have polyester, several epoxies, all kinds of glass, and graphite. The epoxy seems just as good as WEST, but a lot cheaper. There is shipping though.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

West Sys is good stuff. Used it for years. probably THE most expensive stuff out there. I switched to a 2-1 ratio epoxy some boats (built for customers) about 12-15 years ago.

I've used RAKA, MAS and Sys Three. But I've settled on epoxy from B and B Yacht Designs. Good stuff and less costly than others

Of course, the glass itself is available here at SBO

 

[CharlzO]

Used US Composites myself when I was doing my entry to fiberglass work on my boat. Filled three thru-hulls and a couple drains and had zero issues at all. Bought my resin and cloth from them, great prices and quick shipping. Easy to use pump system (1 pump of this, 3 of that) to mix. My brother has used them in the past also for doing work on PWCs. He said he could call them up, tell them what he was working on, and they would give him an idea of how much he would need, and barely anything extra that he wouldn't need (accounting for mistakes). Said they had excellent service, and while I've never had to call them myself, I had nothing but a pleasant experience start to finish with my order.

 

[centerline]

if you have a TAP plastics in your area, they have an excellent 2-1 epoxy that is quite a bit cheaper than the west systems epoxy from west marine.... the fast cure stuff is a 4-1 mix
they sell it by a true gallon of resin, and a true half gallon of resin.... so you end up with 1.5 gallons, rather than partial cans of each that if mixed correctly will make a gallon....

purchased elsewhere besides west marine, the prices are probably comparable, but I do like the plastic jugs that tap plastics epoxy comes in, for pouring cleanly out of rather than the slobbering cans that always have epoxy pooled around the cap.....

 

[Brian S]

Be careful of chopped stand mat with epoxy. As usually sold, it is held together with polystyrene, and it's intended that polyester resin will dissolve the binding agent, leading to nice conformity in the mat. West Systems has tested their epoxy with chopped strand mat, and they say it is fine - however, the epoxy will not dissolve the binding agent, nor will it go very transparent as a result.

 

[Kopite]

Thanks for the replies, seems I have a lot of choices. When I get time I'll collate the various option costs and post what I find as it might be interesting for others.
However, I may have a change of direction.
I had assumed to use epoxy as this is stronger, and the reports I have found claim that epoxy will bond to old polyester resin even better than polyester will. I had not heard of the chopped strand binder issue as mentioned by Brian, but as the chop layer is there to assist the bond to the 24oz roving, then the news is a possible concern. A quick check with the mat vendors confirm that the styrene binder is only compatible with the Esters. Thanks for the heads up.
I also spoke with Catalina today. ( How great is it to be able to call the manufacturer and get enthusiastic support for a 32 year old boat ! ). They advised polyester or vinyl ester. So with the collation of points, I should probably be using polyester if I use the recommended mat/roving.
The final option I'm looking at is to use 1708 biaxial with epoxy. This mat is epoxy friendly, and the biaxial will give quick build, but probably still more flexible than the 24oz roving. US composites sell both the 1708 and a thin epoxy ($121 for 2 gallons with fast cure), so I'm thinking one stop shopping.
Thanks for all the input !

 

[Kopite]

I'm replacing the wood core from my keel stub, and have to lay glass on the base of the keel stub and up the sides.
..
After much consideration, my final plan is 5 layers 1708 (45 degree biaxial 17oz with 3/4 oz mat backer ) to give flexibility to go up the sides of the bilge, and then I'm going to put in 5 layers of 1808 ( 90 degree biaxial with 3/4 oz backer) just over the base. Probably way overkill, but while I'm at it I'd rather be sure. As it will be cool, I'm going with fast hardener for the epoxy, but will do some trials before in the garage before starting work on the boat.
Only question left is how to lay it. I'm thinking to do the 5 layers of 1708 at one time, let that set up and then clean the blush, sand a little and go to the the 1808.
Or, should I do all 10 at once ?
(The cloth will all be cut ahead of time, including the holes for the keel bolts.)

Thanks for the advice...
Andrew

 

[jibes138]

Check out Merton's Fiberglass Supply in Springfield, Ma. Joe advertises in Soundings and has a website.

 

[deltaten]

5, 7, 10 layers?
at once?

No-o-o-o-o-o !

Gonna generate a lotta heat. I did five lams in a patch of less than a half of a square foot in 55 degree weather and it got almost too hot to touch, with medium hardener
Recommend a laminating resin and no more tthan two layers in a "hot" lamm ; even two will get warmish

and BTW... specifyepoxy resin when sourcing. mat/glass.. There's specific binders.. Not All mat isthe same.

I source my supplies from www.fiberglasssite.com Pleased with price,service and helpful information.

 

[Kopite]

Thanks for advice... Here's me thinking it's cold, so heat is good, but I understand there is also a limit. The glass types I'm planning are both epoxy friendly - an earlier post alerted me to the binder issue..
I've been talking with Steve at USComposites, he's been very helpful with my order, including a recommendation that I use the medium hardener, and keep temp above 55F, rather than try to work at cooler temps with the fast. I will now lay 1 or 2 layers, let it cure up for several hours until tacky and then go with another layer etc..

 

[hawk232]

1708 and 1808 are not compatible with epoxy. they are both biax with mat stitched on, here we are back at the binder problem. for epoxy laminations just biax cloth (1700) should be used.

the mat was used with the esters to help promote mechanical adhesion. with epoxy, you don't need that assistance since epoxy forms a great mechanical bond, the mat is simply unnecessary.

it CAN be used but its hard to properly wet out, uses a lot more resin and will result in a resin rich layup (which is weaker and heavier)

 

[hawk232]

oh and I will second, third and fourth US composites, I have used them for all supplies from rollers to brushes to vinylester, cloth and epoxy... they are VERY reasonable and their products are inline with all others. I have used a bit of west and honestly cant tell much of a difference....

 

[Kopite]

Hawk, thanks for the added info. The 1708 is shown as epoxy compatible on the USComposite site, but I do understand your point. I don't see 1700 on the site, but they do have DB170, which seems to be straight cloth as you describe. I didn't place my order yet so I can make the change..

 

[hawk232]

you are correct, they call it DB170. you may check with them and see, I just used some (in a bind) and it had all the classic signs, hard to wet, somewhat hazy appearance once cured. my 1708 is a couple of years old, maybe they changed it up? don't really see how though unless there is a binder that dissolves with epoxy??? keep me posted!

don't get me wrong, I absolutely love using 1708 and have a lot of it on hand from when I was using vinylester, it just doesn't work with epoxy. I am actually in a bit of a bind of my own. I am currently rebuilding a Kevlar raceboat and I have quite a bit of 1708 on hand and I also have 3 gal of thin set resin on hand. I cant decide if I should use vinylester and my stock of biax or order the 1700 (they don't offer 1700 tape and that will be a big PITA) and use my existing resin stock...