Are there any 28-40 foot boats that are known for having easy and ample access to the motor, plumbing, wiring, batteries, seacocks, all of the bilge, tankage, back of appliances, steering controls, and any other stuff that gets hidden inside a boat that needs checking or fixing? Since any boat is a compromise, is there a brand or particular boat that emphasizes the maintainence features of a boat, even at the sake of 1/10 knot or smaller galley and salon? Something less than $150,000 and made for coastal cruising instead of blue water. Thanks, Dan
Best boats for mechanics, plumbers, electricians,
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They are all good
I like where Hunter puts all the seacocks, right in the bilge. Make opening and closing them easy. I also like the fact that Hunter uses rack and pinion instead of cable steering systems.
I like where Hunter puts all the seacocks, right in the bilge. Make opening and closing them easy. I also like the fact that Hunter uses rack and pinion instead of cable steering systems.
One feature I like
On my boat, all of the seacocks are in 1 of 2 locations. Either under the galley sink or under the head sink. The engine access is pretty good. The only appliance I have is a CNG stove/oven. You really do not need to get behind these very often. No matter what boat you buy, it will always be a tight squeeze to one of these areas. Remember that the engineers are trying to maximize usable space, not make the boat easy to work on. That would imply that a given boat needs a lot of maintenance. Get a boat you love to sail and spend time on. You will figure out a way to get into all the nooks and crannys to keep her in shape. Tim R.
On my boat, all of the seacocks are in 1 of 2 locations. Either under the galley sink or under the head sink. The engine access is pretty good. The only appliance I have is a CNG stove/oven. You really do not need to get behind these very often. No matter what boat you buy, it will always be a tight squeeze to one of these areas. Remember that the engineers are trying to maximize usable space, not make the boat easy to work on. That would imply that a given boat needs a lot of maintenance. Get a boat you love to sail and spend time on. You will figure out a way to get into all the nooks and crannys to keep her in shape. Tim R.
There is a disipline call ergonomics
It has to do with all of the concerns that you voiced. When we rebuilt Bietzpadlin. We stripped her clean and remodeled her for easy access to ALL of the systems. There is not one square foot of the hull that is inaccessible, all of the through hulls are reachable without dismantling the furniture or being a contortionist. Access to the engine may be had from the top, both sides the front and the back by anyone weighing less than 160 pounds. I can sit aft of my engine to work. My electrical panel is all breakers, mounted above the starboard settee, no chance of water flooding that. The batteries are located in the lazerette and the lazerette is a water tight compartment I believe that the only way to get this kind of accessibility is to build it the way you want it.
It has to do with all of the concerns that you voiced. When we rebuilt Bietzpadlin. We stripped her clean and remodeled her for easy access to ALL of the systems. There is not one square foot of the hull that is inaccessible, all of the through hulls are reachable without dismantling the furniture or being a contortionist. Access to the engine may be had from the top, both sides the front and the back by anyone weighing less than 160 pounds. I can sit aft of my engine to work. My electrical panel is all breakers, mounted above the starboard settee, no chance of water flooding that. The batteries are located in the lazerette and the lazerette is a water tight compartment I believe that the only way to get this kind of accessibility is to build it the way you want it.
Cal - Catalina - Freedom - Nonesuch - Hans Christr
Christian, and others. Hunter is a beamy yacht very roomy below, but the FRP is so thin that you can see the silluette of the seas from a berth below when the sun is setting. The 'Ledgend' is a good performer, but all systems are cramped. Try getting a hose off the forward tank (below the V-berth). The 'wing-keel' sump-bilge is deep and you need a special tool to access the bolts holding the lead bulb on.Plus the fact that you cannot access the bilge pump except by yanking its chain, this pales in comparison to a Beneteau or Jeaneua. Now I don't care if people start bawling and whining here, let the chips fall and the truth be told. BTW the Hunter 'Passage' is not much better, at least you can access the Keel(traditional) bolts, no backstays and the roller furling needs "help" in anything more than a 15 knot breeze. Hunter "Vision" Had all HELL break loose on one only three year old, even the weld broke on the stainless fresh-water tank under the V-berth. The new owner was breaking down crying were sinking were going to die...had a 'normal' blow of some 40 knots of wind catch us...unpredicted like many small tight lows. These yachts do not seem to be made to take much punishment, like the desinger think they will only see lake duty.
Christian, and others. Hunter is a beamy yacht very roomy below, but the FRP is so thin that you can see the silluette of the seas from a berth below when the sun is setting. The 'Ledgend' is a good performer, but all systems are cramped. Try getting a hose off the forward tank (below the V-berth). The 'wing-keel' sump-bilge is deep and you need a special tool to access the bolts holding the lead bulb on.Plus the fact that you cannot access the bilge pump except by yanking its chain, this pales in comparison to a Beneteau or Jeaneua. Now I don't care if people start bawling and whining here, let the chips fall and the truth be told. BTW the Hunter 'Passage' is not much better, at least you can access the Keel(traditional) bolts, no backstays and the roller furling needs "help" in anything more than a 15 knot breeze. Hunter "Vision" Had all HELL break loose on one only three year old, even the weld broke on the stainless fresh-water tank under the V-berth. The new owner was breaking down crying were sinking were going to die...had a 'normal' blow of some 40 knots of wind catch us...unpredicted like many small tight lows. These yachts do not seem to be made to take much punishment, like the desinger think they will only see lake duty.
Killjoy!
You want to take away the fun of sailboat ownership, eh? ;D I don't know of any coastal cruising boats in that category, but the one thing I would aim for would be an aluminum - or possibly even steel - hull. That way, you don't have the 'inner liner' to deal with, and lots of the items that are bolted or screwed to a fiberglass hull can be welded - chainplates, bulkheads, fittings, etc. Aluminum also cuts down on maintenance - the hulls are frequently left un-painted. The best-designed boats I have run across come from Steve and Linda Dashew - they feature real engine/mechanical rooms, accessibility, aluminum hulls, etc as I described above. Unfortunately, they are NOT within your price range (used ones run $500k+) and are definitely blue-water cruisers. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
You want to take away the fun of sailboat ownership, eh? ;D I don't know of any coastal cruising boats in that category, but the one thing I would aim for would be an aluminum - or possibly even steel - hull. That way, you don't have the 'inner liner' to deal with, and lots of the items that are bolted or screwed to a fiberglass hull can be welded - chainplates, bulkheads, fittings, etc. Aluminum also cuts down on maintenance - the hulls are frequently left un-painted. The best-designed boats I have run across come from Steve and Linda Dashew - they feature real engine/mechanical rooms, accessibility, aluminum hulls, etc as I described above. Unfortunately, they are NOT within your price range (used ones run $500k+) and are definitely blue-water cruisers. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
Perhaps Catalina
The Catalina site seems to be down at the moment, but I seem to remember literature there that stated that making their boats friendly for do-it-yourselfers was a design parameter for Catalina. I own a 2005 Hunter 27; I would not say that it is designed with that thought in mind. For example, If I ever want to rebed the aft end of the companionway handrails, it looks like I will have to cut through the hard ceiling molding in my boat. I also noticed that the companionway door was wider on Catalinas than on comparable Hunters, making it easier to pull things into or out of the cabin. In the end, though, Tim R is probably right. Any boat is going to be a tight squeeze for most maintenance.
The Catalina site seems to be down at the moment, but I seem to remember literature there that stated that making their boats friendly for do-it-yourselfers was a design parameter for Catalina. I own a 2005 Hunter 27; I would not say that it is designed with that thought in mind. For example, If I ever want to rebed the aft end of the companionway handrails, it looks like I will have to cut through the hard ceiling molding in my boat. I also noticed that the companionway door was wider on Catalinas than on comparable Hunters, making it easier to pull things into or out of the cabin. In the end, though, Tim R is probably right. Any boat is going to be a tight squeeze for most maintenance.
???????
You used sailboat and easy access in the same sentence. What a novel idea! I'm sure I would not be able to afford such a boat however.
You used sailboat and easy access in the same sentence. What a novel idea! I'm sure I would not be able to afford such a boat however.
Bill I think I just had an epiphany
Access in a sail boat is inversely proportional to the size of the owner and the urgency of the need. I am only about two feet taller than a dwarf so almost everything on my boat is easy to reach. ;D
Access in a sail boat is inversely proportional to the size of the owner and the urgency of the need. I am only about two feet taller than a dwarf so almost everything on my boat is easy to reach. ;D
Good responses here
Dan, That is a good question, and has come to light before...to much debate and controversy, but dialogue is how we learn. Mr. Roosa is right, can hardly use 'boat' and easy access in the same sentence. I like some of your helpful posts, Bill, especialy on electricity. Mr. Edmonds, I agree Catalina is one fine yacht, and the proof is in the puddin, you can have one built still. Bob Killjoy, most steelies are one-offs, but built with access to the infrastructure, aluminium is same. The best boat I have owned yet was a one-off steel schooner, but I put the plumbing and much of the wiring in, with 'easy-access' panels...;-) Roberts - steel - aluminum - or even FRP are good boats if you stick fairly close to the plans, and if not 'easy-access', "Close-to-it"
Dan, That is a good question, and has come to light before...to much debate and controversy, but dialogue is how we learn. Mr. Roosa is right, can hardly use 'boat' and easy access in the same sentence. I like some of your helpful posts, Bill, especialy on electricity. Mr. Edmonds, I agree Catalina is one fine yacht, and the proof is in the puddin, you can have one built still. Bob Killjoy, most steelies are one-offs, but built with access to the infrastructure, aluminium is same. The best boat I have owned yet was a one-off steel schooner, but I put the plumbing and much of the wiring in, with 'easy-access' panels...;-) Roberts - steel - aluminum - or even FRP are good boats if you stick fairly close to the plans, and if not 'easy-access', "Close-to-it"
Seriously
My Hunter Legend 37.5 has great (for a boat) access to all the normal stuff. Engine, thru-hulls, pumps, electric.... The plumbing tube runs and electrical runs leave something to be desired but those go bad so infrequently I think I'd actually prefer to have them "out of harms way" The biggest access issue I have on any boat is getting to the dang thing once the fun has begun. With an empty boat access is a breeze (for a boat) but put 5 people and all their stuff in and you can really make access a pain.
My Hunter Legend 37.5 has great (for a boat) access to all the normal stuff. Engine, thru-hulls, pumps, electric.... The plumbing tube runs and electrical runs leave something to be desired but those go bad so infrequently I think I'd actually prefer to have them "out of harms way" The biggest access issue I have on any boat is getting to the dang thing once the fun has begun. With an empty boat access is a breeze (for a boat) but put 5 people and all their stuff in and you can really make access a pain.
Catalina seems to design boats
with the owner/repair guy in mind. I haven't seen much of their new boats, but I hope they continued the trend. That's why Newport 30s are a bargain, compared to Catalina 30s. I've had a C22, 2 C27s, and a C38. I've looked at lots of older C30s, but they never get cheap enough for a bottom feeder like me. Low prices in California, but trucking is too high relative to the boat value. On the Catalina all the deck attachment bolts on the inside are accessable. Makes it possible to rebed that loose stanchion before the deck core rots. If you have to tear out cloth headliner to get to the bolts, it never goes back in right unless you replace the whole thing. Hunter seems as good as Catalina so far, but I haven't had to fix anything. One exception in the Catalina line is the C38. It's a Sparkman Stevens racer. Not the usual Catalina design. The narrow stern makes the stuffing box and aft through hulls pretty hard to reach. Nice boat though. I moved down to the H26 because there are almost no systems, and the motor starts with a rope. If the battery dies (unlikely with LED lights) we would hardly notice. My Morgan 41 (Sold!) had very good access to all through hulls, engine(pretty good)Stuffing box, etc.
with the owner/repair guy in mind. I haven't seen much of their new boats, but I hope they continued the trend. That's why Newport 30s are a bargain, compared to Catalina 30s. I've had a C22, 2 C27s, and a C38. I've looked at lots of older C30s, but they never get cheap enough for a bottom feeder like me. Low prices in California, but trucking is too high relative to the boat value. On the Catalina all the deck attachment bolts on the inside are accessable. Makes it possible to rebed that loose stanchion before the deck core rots. If you have to tear out cloth headliner to get to the bolts, it never goes back in right unless you replace the whole thing. Hunter seems as good as Catalina so far, but I haven't had to fix anything. One exception in the Catalina line is the C38. It's a Sparkman Stevens racer. Not the usual Catalina design. The narrow stern makes the stuffing box and aft through hulls pretty hard to reach. Nice boat though. I moved down to the H26 because there are almost no systems, and the motor starts with a rope. If the battery dies (unlikely with LED lights) we would hardly notice. My Morgan 41 (Sold!) had very good access to all through hulls, engine(pretty good)Stuffing box, etc.
37 is not that bad, 40.5 is NOT.
Bill, I am not picking on Hunter in particular, but have done many, many and ahve had some troubles, but they perform well and I have had some that a 'perfect' trip was had coming up from Mexico, and that is saying a lot. Folks do NOT buy these yachts for their strong hulls, good track record, or cruisning abilitys....they buy them for their speed and to impress their mates period. ON the 40.5 Legend, I do like the way the cabin soles slide apart and the 'easy access to the packing gland, but try to change the engine intake thru-hull? Cheers...;-)
Bill, I am not picking on Hunter in particular, but have done many, many and ahve had some troubles, but they perform well and I have had some that a 'perfect' trip was had coming up from Mexico, and that is saying a lot. Folks do NOT buy these yachts for their strong hulls, good track record, or cruisning abilitys....they buy them for their speed and to impress their mates period. ON the 40.5 Legend, I do like the way the cabin soles slide apart and the 'easy access to the packing gland, but try to change the engine intake thru-hull? Cheers...;-)
My motive
I haven't done fiberglass work yet, and would rather weld aluminum, but i can do the other stuff of overhauling a boat. We live with acreage and i would be proud to have a boat out back to restore. I'm only 48, so it's not going to be a funeral pyre, viking style. God has blessed and money is not the issue, having a project is the issue. I'm done remodeling the house, and can't get to the ocean every weekend, yet. Eventually the boat will be slipped at the ocean, so needs to be able to short cruise for 2, daysail for 6-8. Heavy displacement not desireable, since we will have light winds 997 times for every squall we see. Catalina (is one model best?) would be easy to find, but the Nonsuch intrigues me. Kind of like buying a Saab. I would be grateful to get more specific nominations with as much detail as possible. Thanks, Dan
I haven't done fiberglass work yet, and would rather weld aluminum, but i can do the other stuff of overhauling a boat. We live with acreage and i would be proud to have a boat out back to restore. I'm only 48, so it's not going to be a funeral pyre, viking style. God has blessed and money is not the issue, having a project is the issue. I'm done remodeling the house, and can't get to the ocean every weekend, yet. Eventually the boat will be slipped at the ocean, so needs to be able to short cruise for 2, daysail for 6-8. Heavy displacement not desireable, since we will have light winds 997 times for every squall we see. Catalina (is one model best?) would be easy to find, but the Nonsuch intrigues me. Kind of like buying a Saab. I would be grateful to get more specific nominations with as much detail as possible. Thanks, Dan
Beneteau 361
Since I own one this is just a slightly biased opinion but check out the Beneteau 361. I've done just about everything maintenance wise over the last 6 years and have found her pretty easy to work on. There are some exceptions but you'll find that on every boat. You can find used ones in the $125K and below range. She'll handle the coastal routine and no need to reef until apx 20kts. We run at 7kts in good wind or under power. You will work to get any speed out of her below 10kts of wind though. She has a very accomodating interior and is one of the few boats in her range that has a separate shower in the head. Check them out on yachtworld.com. Good luck with your search, there are a lot of good boats by a number of builders that will suit your needs.
Since I own one this is just a slightly biased opinion but check out the Beneteau 361. I've done just about everything maintenance wise over the last 6 years and have found her pretty easy to work on. There are some exceptions but you'll find that on every boat. You can find used ones in the $125K and below range. She'll handle the coastal routine and no need to reef until apx 20kts. We run at 7kts in good wind or under power. You will work to get any speed out of her below 10kts of wind though. She has a very accomodating interior and is one of the few boats in her range that has a separate shower in the head. Check them out on yachtworld.com. Good luck with your search, there are a lot of good boats by a number of builders that will suit your needs.
DanW, There are many, many boats in the size
catagory you want that don't make the top ten list or even the top twenty. Start from the outside and decide what shape and profile you want. Full keel, fin keel, cutaway keel, light displacement, moderate displacement , or heavy displacement. Will you leave the boat fully equiped and provisioned with non-perishables between your excursions. I think with your skills you could make any boat be the boat you want.
catagory you want that don't make the top ten list or even the top twenty. Start from the outside and decide what shape and profile you want. Full keel, fin keel, cutaway keel, light displacement, moderate displacement , or heavy displacement. Will you leave the boat fully equiped and provisioned with non-perishables between your excursions. I think with your skills you could make any boat be the boat you want.
Cap'n Ron!
I took no offense and I actually agree with you. Hunter is certainly pushing the edge of what you can and cannot get away with structurally speaking. DanW was asking about ease of maintenance not how much abuse a boat can take. As a, IMHO, prudent sailor I know that Hunters are not a boat that just anybody can do blue water sailing in and get away with it. But then the majority of Hunter owners don't, as you observed, use them for blue water boats. From Hunters stand point it is just good business to cut costs where you can. The majority of their users will never sail their boat into a hurricane or even a strong depression so structural strength is secondary to interior room and luxury items. This is at the heart of sailors and sailing. If you want a blue water boat then you are going to get lots of storage room for that long passage and tight quarters to keep you from banging into things during a blow and you are not going to be entertaining much while in port because your cockpit is small and so is your salon. If you want a boat that can make the passage from port to port in good weather and is comfortable "on the hook" then you buy a boat like Hunter. It has been observed that 90% of your time cruising is spent on the hook so perhaps the Hunter engineers and legal folks have though this thing out more thoroughly than it would appear at first glance!
I took no offense and I actually agree with you. Hunter is certainly pushing the edge of what you can and cannot get away with structurally speaking. DanW was asking about ease of maintenance not how much abuse a boat can take. As a, IMHO, prudent sailor I know that Hunters are not a boat that just anybody can do blue water sailing in and get away with it. But then the majority of Hunter owners don't, as you observed, use them for blue water boats. From Hunters stand point it is just good business to cut costs where you can. The majority of their users will never sail their boat into a hurricane or even a strong depression so structural strength is secondary to interior room and luxury items. This is at the heart of sailors and sailing. If you want a blue water boat then you are going to get lots of storage room for that long passage and tight quarters to keep you from banging into things during a blow and you are not going to be entertaining much while in port because your cockpit is small and so is your salon. If you want a boat that can make the passage from port to port in good weather and is comfortable "on the hook" then you buy a boat like Hunter. It has been observed that 90% of your time cruising is spent on the hook so perhaps the Hunter engineers and legal folks have though this thing out more thoroughly than it would appear at first glance!
personal biases coming though
DanW What you are seeing, particularly with some of the posts, are individual personal biases which are arguably at best not very well-informed at in some cases simply mis-statement of fact. I'm not sure any production boat within your stated price range is specifically designed for ease of maintenance. Each of those which do fall into your range have their pros and cons. There are more systems on a boat than in most peoples' homes considering we have to generate our own power and, in some cases, drinking water which makes it impractical to allow easy assess to every system. On our Hunter, access to the bilge and pump is simple, all thru-hulls, despite one comment to the contrary, couldn't be easier. Engine access on all 4 sides is excellent, tanks are intentionally placed below the waterline for stability but easily accessed by removing sole plates and all tanks have cleanouts, stearing controls are all easily accessable for inspection and maintenance and electronics and electrical wiring are run in chases to facilitate work. I suspect most other production boats can claim similar attributes. To take opinions of strangers can be dangerous so have fun doing your own research and inspection and let us know what you find. Forgot one thing - you can't see through our hull unless you want to imagine it...
DanW What you are seeing, particularly with some of the posts, are individual personal biases which are arguably at best not very well-informed at in some cases simply mis-statement of fact. I'm not sure any production boat within your stated price range is specifically designed for ease of maintenance. Each of those which do fall into your range have their pros and cons. There are more systems on a boat than in most peoples' homes considering we have to generate our own power and, in some cases, drinking water which makes it impractical to allow easy assess to every system. On our Hunter, access to the bilge and pump is simple, all thru-hulls, despite one comment to the contrary, couldn't be easier. Engine access on all 4 sides is excellent, tanks are intentionally placed below the waterline for stability but easily accessed by removing sole plates and all tanks have cleanouts, stearing controls are all easily accessable for inspection and maintenance and electronics and electrical wiring are run in chases to facilitate work. I suspect most other production boats can claim similar attributes. To take opinions of strangers can be dangerous so have fun doing your own research and inspection and let us know what you find. Forgot one thing - you can't see through our hull unless you want to imagine it...
Size does matter.
Easy and ample access to most systems on a boat of 28 foot just about doesnt exist. When you go upward towards 40 ft, access becomes remarkably easier, ESPECIALLY in ther newer beamier boats.
Easy and ample access to most systems on a boat of 28 foot just about doesnt exist. When you go upward towards 40 ft, access becomes remarkably easier, ESPECIALLY in ther newer beamier boats.
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