In June my brother and I were sailing and we hit bottom. In won't mention who was at the helm. Doesn't mattter I am the captain and we are related. Ha. Anyway no leaks resulted and everything seemed fine as we continued to sail for the rest of the summer and into the fall. However much to my horror we discovered at haul out that the rudder post was bent about 5-10 degrees to aft. There a minor amount of damage at the front leading edge of the lower corner at the point of impact. As well a hairline crack has developed at the top of the rudder at the seam where to two halfs come together. Opinions at the club vary. One says that the rudder must come off the with repairs to the rudder and post made. As it is a shoal keel a hole will need to be dug so that the rudder can be dropped down. Another says that if I don't mind the look of it, leave it as is but drill a couple holes in the rudder to ensure it drains so water does not freeze in it. Many other rudders also collect water. Obviously this is the preferred option but I am concerned of a catastrophic failure of the rudder and loosing steering. I am looking for any input by owners of Hunters of this vintage H27, 1978. I have photos but they are too large to include with this posting. Thanks Steve
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Rudder options.
Steve, you could find the answers to this same question in the Forum Archives. I can suggest that the consensus is usually to call Foss Foam and get a new rudder. Personally I would be fearful of weakening the rudder stock by straightening. It is also possible that the plate that is welded to the stock suffered damage. If so it is undetectable until the rudder starts turning freely on the stock. You could straighten and insert a smaller stainless tube for additional strength. But I still think you would want to open up the foam on one side to inspect the internal integrity. I have always wondered about doubling the tubing on the rudder stock. Is it better to have it bend or even break off? Or would a stronger rudder stock rip out the back of the boat? I think a new rudder is in order.
Steve, you could find the answers to this same question in the Forum Archives. I can suggest that the consensus is usually to call Foss Foam and get a new rudder. Personally I would be fearful of weakening the rudder stock by straightening. It is also possible that the plate that is welded to the stock suffered damage. If so it is undetectable until the rudder starts turning freely on the stock. You could straighten and insert a smaller stainless tube for additional strength. But I still think you would want to open up the foam on one side to inspect the internal integrity. I have always wondered about doubling the tubing on the rudder stock. Is it better to have it bend or even break off? Or would a stronger rudder stock rip out the back of the boat? I think a new rudder is in order.
Foss Foam Answer
"send it to me and I'll inspect it" meaning they will break it up so no one can ever use it again. They you get the pleasure of buying a new one $$$$$$$$$$$$ from them
"send it to me and I'll inspect it" meaning they will break it up so no one can ever use it again. They you get the pleasure of buying a new one $$$$$$$$$$$$ from them
Where are you?
Yours may be bent so little that you could straighten it, then put a slug in. If you're on the Texas coast I can recommend a good place to fix it, as I've been there. the fix involved cutting back a bit of the top to expose the bend, cutting just below it, then inserting a solid plug and a new piece for the top. Welded up, it's probably stronger than it was. I re-glassed up the top to replace the cut away spot. No problems in the seven years - except I bent it again not to long ago. took a pretty good impact to do it. The original rudder was a dense foam covered with a plastic shell. I can't see how much water could intrude, having cut mine open. Blistering is not a problem with that construction. I understand the new ones are made of a fiberglass shell. If so, blistering might be a concern there. New rudders are about $1300, give or take. Getting mine repaired was about $200. Same removal and replacement either way. You can do the replacement in the water if it's deep enough. Oh, another thought. After I bent mine, I had to saw off the top so it would clear the hull so we could steer to get home. It's still that way, (both bent and sawed off, exposing the foam) and we've cruised the Caribbean and back with no problem. Some things just don't have to be rushed.
Yours may be bent so little that you could straighten it, then put a slug in. If you're on the Texas coast I can recommend a good place to fix it, as I've been there. the fix involved cutting back a bit of the top to expose the bend, cutting just below it, then inserting a solid plug and a new piece for the top. Welded up, it's probably stronger than it was. I re-glassed up the top to replace the cut away spot. No problems in the seven years - except I bent it again not to long ago. took a pretty good impact to do it. The original rudder was a dense foam covered with a plastic shell. I can't see how much water could intrude, having cut mine open. Blistering is not a problem with that construction. I understand the new ones are made of a fiberglass shell. If so, blistering might be a concern there. New rudders are about $1300, give or take. Getting mine repaired was about $200. Same removal and replacement either way. You can do the replacement in the water if it's deep enough. Oh, another thought. After I bent mine, I had to saw off the top so it would clear the hull so we could steer to get home. It's still that way, (both bent and sawed off, exposing the foam) and we've cruised the Caribbean and back with no problem. Some things just don't have to be rushed.
bent rudder followup
Thanks everyone. The rudder moves freely now and it performed well this summer. As suggested I am in no hurry. The rudder still feels solid on the post with no give when I try to move it even though it is locked at the wheel. That's not to say that loads on it under sail are far greater than any stress I put on it by hand. I will check the forum archives for additional info. My concern in the short term remains water freezing on the interior. What about the suggestion to drill a couple holes in the rudder to drain it. Should this be done and if so, where. Are there any cavities that I should target.
Thanks everyone. The rudder moves freely now and it performed well this summer. As suggested I am in no hurry. The rudder still feels solid on the post with no give when I try to move it even though it is locked at the wheel. That's not to say that loads on it under sail are far greater than any stress I put on it by hand. I will check the forum archives for additional info. My concern in the short term remains water freezing on the interior. What about the suggestion to drill a couple holes in the rudder to drain it. Should this be done and if so, where. Are there any cavities that I should target.
Draining the rudder.
The first winter of ownership I noticed some seaping. Advice on this forum was to drill a couple rows of 1/4" holes on each side. I think I drilled ten holes a row. I started about three inches from the bottom with the first row. Then six inches up on the other side and then nine on the first side, etc. I angled these upward to a depth of about two inches. Sure enough water drained for weeks. I covered the rudder with a silver tarp for the winter. In the spring I filled with an epoxy mix. If you drill too high you will hit that plate that I mentioned. The trick to keeping the water out is as Gene mentioned. Where the rudder stock enters the foam at the top must be watertight. I dremmeled a channel all the way around and filled with the same epoxy mix.
The first winter of ownership I noticed some seaping. Advice on this forum was to drill a couple rows of 1/4" holes on each side. I think I drilled ten holes a row. I started about three inches from the bottom with the first row. Then six inches up on the other side and then nine on the first side, etc. I angled these upward to a depth of about two inches. Sure enough water drained for weeks. I covered the rudder with a silver tarp for the winter. In the spring I filled with an epoxy mix. If you drill too high you will hit that plate that I mentioned. The trick to keeping the water out is as Gene mentioned. Where the rudder stock enters the foam at the top must be watertight. I dremmeled a channel all the way around and filled with the same epoxy mix.
Bending back the rudder shaft-?
Steve, you say the rudder is freed up now. Did you bend it back? I wonder if by bending it back you couldn't just work-harden the shaft into place and stop worrying about it for a while. I mean, assuming you keep it in line with the centreline-- rocks are not known to care about stuff like that. I would not worry so much about it breaking at the bend. After an impact like that I would be more worried about the fibreglass/foam part breaking off the stainless-steel pipe. --or the fibreglass rudder tube leaking from cracks inside the hull. I like Ed's idea of filling a fully drained and dehydrated rudder case with penetrating epoxy. You should probably use a lot of filler, which will cut down on weight-- just keep it liquid enough to actually flow. Maybe drill more holes and fill from other places. It doesn't matter where you drill them. (Duct tape works great to temporarily seal off otherwise dry holes while the epoxy kicks off. Wipe with acetone first.) Assuming you get complete penetration it will envelop the shaft's 'flag' inside and you'll be set. Anyone know for sure if Foss Foam really does still keep moulds for the older boats? JC 2 cherubiniyachts@aol.com
Steve, you say the rudder is freed up now. Did you bend it back? I wonder if by bending it back you couldn't just work-harden the shaft into place and stop worrying about it for a while. I mean, assuming you keep it in line with the centreline-- rocks are not known to care about stuff like that. I would not worry so much about it breaking at the bend. After an impact like that I would be more worried about the fibreglass/foam part breaking off the stainless-steel pipe. --or the fibreglass rudder tube leaking from cracks inside the hull. I like Ed's idea of filling a fully drained and dehydrated rudder case with penetrating epoxy. You should probably use a lot of filler, which will cut down on weight-- just keep it liquid enough to actually flow. Maybe drill more holes and fill from other places. It doesn't matter where you drill them. (Duct tape works great to temporarily seal off otherwise dry holes while the epoxy kicks off. Wipe with acetone first.) Assuming you get complete penetration it will envelop the shaft's 'flag' inside and you'll be set. Anyone know for sure if Foss Foam really does still keep moulds for the older boats? JC 2 cherubiniyachts@aol.com
Want name of place in Texas to fix rudder post
I have the exact same problem as George and would love more info on the repair. My vessel is on the hard in Marathon, FL and ready for repair. Any info on bent rudder post repairs would be helpful. The rudder is bent just above foam shell and smashed into hull just past centerline, not allowing to turn left. Rudder is in good shape except bent and a little fiberglass damage where it smashed into the hull.
I have the exact same problem as George and would love more info on the repair. My vessel is on the hard in Marathon, FL and ready for repair. Any info on bent rudder post repairs would be helpful. The rudder is bent just above foam shell and smashed into hull just past centerline, not allowing to turn left. Rudder is in good shape except bent and a little fiberglass damage where it smashed into the hull.
Replace post
About a year and a half ago after running aground my rudder was in the same shape as your's Mark. I had a repair company in Tarpon Springs repair it. They said that bending the post weakens it. They replaced the post and used the same rudder. I am happy with the result.
About a year and a half ago after running aground my rudder was in the same shape as your's Mark. I had a repair company in Tarpon Springs repair it. They said that bending the post weakens it. They replaced the post and used the same rudder. I am happy with the result.
follow-up
As suggested I drilled a couple holes, one about two inches from the bottom of the rudder and another about one inch above it. No water was present. The rudder has about a 1/4-1/2 inch clearance from the hull. It did not impact the hull. The rudder swings freely. The problem is the hairline crack at the top of the rudder along the seam near the post (and of course the way it looks). In the spring I think the most prudent course of action is to 'dremmel' out the crack and fill with the epoxy. The bend in the post does not impact the rudder's ability to turn so perhaps I should just live with it? Should the rudder be filled? If so, is there a specific product (maybe an expanding foam) that I should look for that can be readily injected. I assume that I should drill a few holes and fill from the top down? Steve
As suggested I drilled a couple holes, one about two inches from the bottom of the rudder and another about one inch above it. No water was present. The rudder has about a 1/4-1/2 inch clearance from the hull. It did not impact the hull. The rudder swings freely. The problem is the hairline crack at the top of the rudder along the seam near the post (and of course the way it looks). In the spring I think the most prudent course of action is to 'dremmel' out the crack and fill with the epoxy. The bend in the post does not impact the rudder's ability to turn so perhaps I should just live with it? Should the rudder be filled? If so, is there a specific product (maybe an expanding foam) that I should look for that can be readily injected. I assume that I should drill a few holes and fill from the top down? Steve
Foss Faom Rudders
Foss Foam is infact in buisness..And they do what they say they will...We had a close encounter with an imovabile object this past spring and bent the rudder on MYST to where it impinged on the hull..After hauling her and inspecting, no hull damage beyound a bit of minor gelcoat cracking at the bearing, and the ovious scrape from where the rudder was against the hull...We called Foss, told them what we needed, they gave us a price, and a delivery date..after talking to the yard guys, and the surveyour, we called them back and palced the order..Delivery was actually several days earlier than they promised....Very satisfied with them.. Picture available on request..
Ed S/V MYST
Foss Foam is infact in buisness..And they do what they say they will...We had a close encounter with an imovabile object this past spring and bent the rudder on MYST to where it impinged on the hull..After hauling her and inspecting, no hull damage beyound a bit of minor gelcoat cracking at the bearing, and the ovious scrape from where the rudder was against the hull...We called Foss, told them what we needed, they gave us a price, and a delivery date..after talking to the yard guys, and the surveyour, we called them back and palced the order..Delivery was actually several days earlier than they promised....Very satisfied with them.. Picture available on request..
Ed S/V MYSTRudder
Have a slight dogleg in my rudder from sailing in Barnegat mud for going on 5 years. Not a problem, even at severe(Ilove it!)angles of heel. I wouldn't poop myself over it. Regerds, Jim
Have a slight dogleg in my rudder from sailing in Barnegat mud for going on 5 years. Not a problem, even at severe(Ilove it!)angles of heel. I wouldn't poop myself over it. Regerds, Jim
Rudder repair shop in Texas
The folks who fixed my bent rudder are: P & V Machine Shop 12016 Highway 146 Dickinson, TX 77539 281-339-2607 They do good work and are reasonable with their pricing. I just spoke with them and they still do the work.
The folks who fixed my bent rudder are: P & V Machine Shop 12016 Highway 146 Dickinson, TX 77539 281-339-2607 They do good work and are reasonable with their pricing. I just spoke with them and they still do the work.
final follow up
I just want to thank all for their comments and suggestions. Merry Xmas from Nova Scotia. Steve Horswill
I just want to thank all for their comments and suggestions. Merry Xmas from Nova Scotia. Steve Horswill
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