Bent Rudder and other novice question

[Kevin]

OK...second weekend of sailing my 23 and as we are leaving the dock, I tap a tree stump that "pops" my rudder, but I didn't think it was a big deal.

After coming back in, I took the rudder off and noticed it's bent towards the middle the rudder (between the pins?!?!). After thinking about it, I did steer to the right a little to make the boat go straight, but thought that was the wind, etc.

1.) Can I bend the rudder back to "straight" and use it? It's about a 3 to 5 degree bend. Please say yes.

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Heeling
On Saturday, it was a beautiful day, with winds 12 to 15 mph. This was the first time I really went "fast" in the 23. I was on a close haul and noticed the boat was "almost" 30 to 35 degrees. It felt as if I didn't do anything the boat would tip.

I would steer more windward or I would sheet out the mainsail to bring it down.

Is it possible to heel way to much and flip the boat in beautiful, semi-calm days with only 15 mph winds? If I hadn't steered into the wind a little or sheeted out, what would the boat normally do? (This is a wife question...as much as a question for me....in the flying juniors I trained in last month...too much heeling and we would just capsize, flip it back over and keep going)

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My 9.9hp 2 stroke is dead. I have a Tohatsu 6hp 4 stroke on order and will definitely get new motor mount plate done at a local metalworking shop and buy an new motor mount before I use the 23 again. A novice trying to dock under sail is not a pretty sight....just ask my wife...who made the mandate above about not getting the the boat until the new motor is mounted. (hmmmm...maybe I shouldn't mount the motor just yet!

Kevin

 

[Joe]

Bent rudder head

Kevin,
I'm going to assume that your rudder head is 1/4" sheet aluminum like mine, with a fiberglass rudder blade. I don't see why you can't take the rudder head apart and straighten it out. It's held together with nuts bolts right? Just hit them with WD-40 and remove the nuts and bolts to get the plates off. I did it to mine years ago.

I have to be honest with you Kevin. I've never sailed a 23, so I can't tell you too much about how they sail or how far they can go over. I have sailed a 25 though and it sails very similar to mine. The O'Day 25 that I delivered from the Cape to our club years ago wasn't an unfamiliar boat to me. I had sailed it a few times prior to that and I knew how she sailed. We had 25 Knot winds that day and I had her gunwale almost buried in the water. These keel centerboard sloops are very forgiving. You can't compare them to a centerboard sloop. You're just going to have to use your boat a lot and get used to it. The more you use it, the better you're going to be able to sail it with confidence. Once you get to know it, and know what it can and cannot do,--then you can start sailing up to a dock or shooting a mooring under sail. It's just that simple. I've found out little things about my boat by experimenting under sail. For instance; I sail under just the mainsail most of the time if the wind is good, because I like to troll for Stripers. If I catch a large fish, it's easier to play him with just the mainsail to worry about. If I try to come about and she gets into stays, I can use my mainsail to backwind her into the desired tack while keeping my rudder in the desired direction. I've done this many times and I know it works on my boat. Will this same technique work on your boat? I have no idea, but you can try it. Say you're just about to leave your mooring under sail and your sail is up and you just removed the pendant line from your mooring ball off your bow cleat. You walk back to the tiller and the boat is still stopped at the mooring with the sail flapping away in the breeze and you want to sail off to Port. Let your mainsheet way off and push your boom way over to Starboard with your left hand while bringing your tiller back in the opposite direction. If she doesn't fall off to Port, try moving the tiller in the other direction. Experiment!

 

[Patrick]

capsize

not sure on the oday 23 either.I have sailed numerous makes in that size range though. What usually happens is when the boat heals too much the sails lay over and dimp the wind and the boat rounds up-heads into the wind. The boats i have dealt with did this manoever alittle differently but still did it. The 22 foot southcoast would let me stuff the rail before it would turn up. The macgreggor would turn up rather quickly, in fact if the wind was above 15k it was hard to hold a course. I have never capsized any cruiser type sailboat dingy class. Usually i would have to use alot of force on the tiller to try and keep the boat heeled over. The books say if you are heeled over more than 20 degrees then you are not sailing efficiently. The boat goes faster when its flat. I still enjoyed riding high from time to time. The other thing is weight distribution. Put the heavy stuff as low as you can and in the middle of the boat. Like the cooler on the floor. Also, reduce windage on top. Stuff stored on the deck catches the wind and will help heel the boat. Good luck and fair winds. Patrick

 

[Mike]

Bending and heeling

Kevin: I am having trouble envisioning what is actually "bent" on your rudder. The rudder is fiberglass with a foam or plywood core. If the rudder itself is bent, then it is in need of some serious repair. Fiberglass does not stay bent; unlike metal, it does not bend and then stay bent. It breaks. If the exterior gelcoat is unbroken or cracked, that could mean that the core material and/or the layers of structural fiberglass and expoxy within the rudder have failed. If you were to "bend" it back straight, whatever inside that allowed it to bend in the first place is still broken. The rudder will have lost its structural integrity and be a good candidate to break off entirely. You say that the bend is "between the pins"; does that mean that the pintles and gudgeons (the metal fittings on the rudder and transom) are intact and still seated in their original locations? I would think that any blow to the rudder strong enough to break it would have also impacted at least the lower set of fittings too.

If you want to try and bend the rudder back, be prepared for the thing to break off completely, or at least be noticeable weak. Just imagine trying to do the same thing to a partially broken sheet of plywood. Rudy at D&R Marine, and the IdaSailor folks sell replacement rudders. Unfortunately, they are not cheap. You can also try and fix it yourself, but since the rudder is a piece of equipment under high stress, its not the sort of thing you should attempt unless you have confidence in your fiberglass repair skills.

As for heeling on the 23, the boat is tender. Like all trailer sailers, the ballast rides high to facilitate trailering. Bottom line: you cannot dump the boat in regular conditions. She will heel, sometimes to 25 degrees, but you can't tip her. If properly set up, the rudder will lose its bite on the water at about 25 or 30 degrees of heel, and the boat will round up into the wind. If at about 15 degrees of heel you don't feel weather helm (the boat fighting you to turn into the wind), try tightening up the backstay. Even if your boat isn't perfectly tuned, you can't tip her, especially in 15 knots of wind. You may be able to get the lee shrouds wet, but the boat is well designed and won't go over. It would take a big gust of wind with all of your sails up, combined with some good sized waves to get the boat over to 90 degrees. Even then, she should right herself. Make no mistake; the Oday 23 is not unsinkable, nor even particularly comfortable. But it is a safe boat. I have found that I can sail with minimal heel (about 5-10 degrees) in 12-14 knots of wind with my full 135 genny and a reefed main; with that combo, I hit 5.2 knots regularly. In 15 knots of wind, I often sail with the just the genny fully out. Again, minimal heel, good speed. I can't sail as close to the wind, but if I have the Admiral or guests aboard, it is the way to go. Much above 15 knots, I don't go out.

 

[Joe]

Bent rudder

Kevin,
Why don't you take a picture of your rudder and post it on this site so that we can see what you're talking about? I know that you're not referring to the rudder blade being bent, as the blades are made of Fiberglass. They don't bend, they just break. I still maintain that you need to become more familiar with this boat by sailing it.
Joe

 

[Kevin]

photo

I'll take a photo...but it won't be until Friday. I'm about 2 hours away from the boat working on a website project this week.

It is bent, I promise. If you look at the rudder blade vertically...towards the middle of it...it's bent.

Thanks for the info on the heeling. It felt like a lot more the 20 degrees on Saturday!

Kevin

 

[Scott On Eagles Wings]

Will not go over

Kevin the 23 will not go over in those winds. We foolishly got caught in a storm with full sails up. It was blowing over 40 kts when it hit us. Laid us flat in the water but she quilckly rounded up into the wind.
If the wife is nervous about the healing give her the main sheet. As soon as she gets uncomfortable with the amount of heel she can ease the sheet. You will find her comfort level will quickly increase as she realizes how easy it is to control. Its a great boat enjoy.