Hello my friends! Well, this is probably was discussed before, but after doing several searches in archive I could not find any related info. This is what I am going to offer you to talk about: I am on a market for a new boat. Why new, this is another story. What is really making me quite upset is complete lack of price guidelines from Beneteau for their new boats. Go to Catalina web site (I am not looking to buy Catalina), or go to Etap web site (my next choice after 323 would be Etap 32s) and you would see MSRP for those boats online. So you have something to start from. With 323 situation is very different. This is what I have for now: I am looking for 323 with all standard options and with 3 extras: lifting keel, in mast main and autopilot. I went to several boat shows. Advertised price (they call it sail away price) for this boat was about 75K base with autopilot + 1500 for in mast main + I believe 3K for lifting keel. So something about 80K for a new boat. My guess is this is where negotiations start. If to look at advertisements for the same boat published by dealerships, prices are quite different. I saw adds where someone was asking 125K for 2005 model with only standard options. Options options. I know. My wife just bought loaded Mercedes and I know what the price for a really old model Motorola cell phone can be ($800). And I have a boat myself (Catalina 25) so I have a clue. But to charge 30+K extra for fabric upgrade and hatch screens? I think that many dealers are trying to make some easy dollars using a fact that several models like 323, 343, and 373 are new to a market and you really cannot see too many use boats for sale. So there is very difficult to guess what depreciation would be. So please shoot your opinion. I would appreciate it! And please, tell me, how much did you pay for you boat? Thank you, Victor
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Beneteau 323 pricing
Our 323 is about to be delivered. I did not see much price competition between dealers, but also fairly quickly focused on the dealer closest to me because that was important to me. Commissioning and warranty repair on these boats are pretty substantial, and I did not want to be 250 miles from the dealer when something went wrong. At the boat shows there were price lists for boats that were avaialble, and they were quite a bit higher than the 75K you are suggesting. The 2005 fall boat show pricing for the Beneteau 323 was $96,900 including freight, bottom painting and commissioning. For show specials they included what they called the cruising package and also the autopilot and wind instruments. They also had a boat show special including linens from Waygo.
Our 323 is about to be delivered. I did not see much price competition between dealers, but also fairly quickly focused on the dealer closest to me because that was important to me. Commissioning and warranty repair on these boats are pretty substantial, and I did not want to be 250 miles from the dealer when something went wrong. At the boat shows there were price lists for boats that were avaialble, and they were quite a bit higher than the 75K you are suggesting. The 2005 fall boat show pricing for the Beneteau 323 was $96,900 including freight, bottom painting and commissioning. For show specials they included what they called the cruising package and also the autopilot and wind instruments. They also had a boat show special including linens from Waygo.
Ted, thank you for your reply. It is very helpful. I am looking at NADA retail prices, and this is what I see for 2005 Low retail 56800 High retail 68000. 2004 Low retail 54100 High retail 65200. This means that I say bought a boat in 2005 for 96K after year it can be sold for 66K. 30% depreciation just in one year? Or there is something wrong with NADA?
Beneteau 323 pricing
I don't know for sure about the NADA Guide, but there were exceedingly few Beneteau 323s in the US in 2004, so I am not sure where they would have gotten the data. I also have the feeling there have been some significant changes in standard equipment over time, whcih could easily result in a 15-20% change in list price when former options become standard equipment. Does the NADA Guide price show the original list price? There is not 30% depreciation if the list price on the 2006 model is 15% higher than the 2004. You should be sure that the NADA price reflects the same equipment as the new one. Also when I look at all of the Beneteau prices on the boat show list price list, there is a fairly clear progression with size. One last item affecting Beneteau used prices more than most is that bnoats that were in charter service sell for a lot less than other boats, and may skew the NADA prices. I will be interested in your further research.
I don't know for sure about the NADA Guide, but there were exceedingly few Beneteau 323s in the US in 2004, so I am not sure where they would have gotten the data. I also have the feeling there have been some significant changes in standard equipment over time, whcih could easily result in a 15-20% change in list price when former options become standard equipment. Does the NADA Guide price show the original list price? There is not 30% depreciation if the list price on the 2006 model is 15% higher than the 2004. You should be sure that the NADA price reflects the same equipment as the new one. Also when I look at all of the Beneteau prices on the boat show list price list, there is a fairly clear progression with size. One last item affecting Beneteau used prices more than most is that bnoats that were in charter service sell for a lot less than other boats, and may skew the NADA prices. I will be interested in your further research.
Couldn't be THAT low
When I bought my new 323 in late 2004 I couldn't find a price that low advertised in any sailing publication or at any Beneteau dealer. I don't know about the lifting keel option, but I would assume that would add cost. I deliberately opted for the conventional mast, and at the time the in mast furling was around a $1200 option. My boat also came with a cradle, and haydraulic autopilot. The autopilot was part of a boatshow special. The cost also included bottom painting. Commissioning was also a part of the package at the dealer's home marina...I split the difference with them to have it delivered 100 miles further away. I did see price lists peior to the sale, and I saw list pricing on the next year's model which were in the vicinity of 10% higher.
When I bought my new 323 in late 2004 I couldn't find a price that low advertised in any sailing publication or at any Beneteau dealer. I don't know about the lifting keel option, but I would assume that would add cost. I deliberately opted for the conventional mast, and at the time the in mast furling was around a $1200 option. My boat also came with a cradle, and haydraulic autopilot. The autopilot was part of a boatshow special. The cost also included bottom painting. Commissioning was also a part of the package at the dealer's home marina...I split the difference with them to have it delivered 100 miles further away. I did see price lists peior to the sale, and I saw list pricing on the next year's model which were in the vicinity of 10% higher.
OK, I am doing my research and found prices for new 2006 models on European dealerships. Prices are without delivery charges: 323 – 67150 euros – now it is about 80K in dollars. Lifting keel – 4848 euros or 5300 dollars. So looks like that it is possible to buy it for 70-75K, but with standard options and from European dealer. I am wondering if they can ship it to US address…
323 pricing
I know that the European models are priced differently and equipped differently. I recently returned from Ireland and picked up Yachting monthly, a British publication, and in one of the ads they referred to a boat having the "Clipper" upgrade. I think that may be a fairly large change form the base model as to standard equipment. I also saw a broker's ad for a used 2004 Oceanis 323 for 69,950 pounds, which is pretty close to $125,000 -- no bargain compared to US prices, and certainly does not suggest the UK list is much less than the US. The list of equipment was not that extensive.
I know that the European models are priced differently and equipped differently. I recently returned from Ireland and picked up Yachting monthly, a British publication, and in one of the ads they referred to a boat having the "Clipper" upgrade. I think that may be a fairly large change form the base model as to standard equipment. I also saw a broker's ad for a used 2004 Oceanis 323 for 69,950 pounds, which is pretty close to $125,000 -- no bargain compared to US prices, and certainly does not suggest the UK list is much less than the US. The list of equipment was not that extensive.
323 pricing in EU
Yes Ted, It seems that in Great Britain everything is more expensive. Including boats. Also if you buy a boat to use in European Union, VAT would apply. IF you buy a boat to export it from EU, you do not have to pay VAT. All advertised prices usually do not include VAT. I went through a list of standard options. Only difference that I found was 220 volts power onboard. I have price list ordered. As soon as I have it, I am going to see if there are any differences in standard configuration.
Yes Ted, It seems that in Great Britain everything is more expensive. Including boats. Also if you buy a boat to use in European Union, VAT would apply. IF you buy a boat to export it from EU, you do not have to pay VAT. All advertised prices usually do not include VAT. I went through a list of standard options. Only difference that I found was 220 volts power onboard. I have price list ordered. As soon as I have it, I am going to see if there are any differences in standard configuration.
Beneteau 323 pricing
Also make sure things like sails, winches, electronics, etc. are the same in the base package, so you can do oranges to oranges. Those sold in Europe are manufactured in France, those sold here are manufactured in South Carolina. I have no idea if that makes a difference in either price or anything else. Before I ordered the 323 I considered a used 311, about 4 years old with a lifting keel, in pretty nice shape. I don't recall the exact price, but I think it was around $70K. Assuming it had the same original list price as the 323 (lifting keel is around a $4800 option), I think that would be a depreciation of around 8% per year. However, the 311 was a smaller boat than the 323, and I would have expected it to cost less than the 323 brand new and side by side. The same place now shows a listing for a different 311, year 2000 for $87500 listing price. Don't know what they got for it, but it is listed as sold.
Also make sure things like sails, winches, electronics, etc. are the same in the base package, so you can do oranges to oranges. Those sold in Europe are manufactured in France, those sold here are manufactured in South Carolina. I have no idea if that makes a difference in either price or anything else. Before I ordered the 323 I considered a used 311, about 4 years old with a lifting keel, in pretty nice shape. I don't recall the exact price, but I think it was around $70K. Assuming it had the same original list price as the 323 (lifting keel is around a $4800 option), I think that would be a depreciation of around 8% per year. However, the 311 was a smaller boat than the 323, and I would have expected it to cost less than the 323 brand new and side by side. The same place now shows a listing for a different 311, year 2000 for $87500 listing price. Don't know what they got for it, but it is listed as sold.
NADA prices/323
When I was looking for boat last year, I found that the NADA prices for a range of popular newish boats didn't seem to reflect the market out here. Either the boats were advertised at prices way higher (20-30%) than they ultimately were sold for (possible but they seemed to sell), or the NADA prices didn't reflect the market at all. The new boat pricing is a bit of a mystery and I suspect it simply depends on the market. MSRP prices don't help much if the dealers can sell for more (same as with cars). Magazine review prices seem to be quite different from dealer prices also and they seem to be tending low. I suspect it comes down to market, If a dealer has a boat they haven't moved for a while, they will be more willing to negotiate than if they have customers lining up to order the next one. I suspect your price for a "stock" boat will be a lot more negotiable than for a "made to order one". There was thread here a while ago that claimed that Beneteau has some scheme in place to prevent dealers from competing with each other. No idea if this is so, but in many cases having a dealer who will take care of you with warranty issues near-by is certainly worth a few bucks ( in theory, though individual experiences seem to vary greatly) The price you hope to pay for a 323 seems a bit low. The Seattle Beneteau dealer was advertising sail away (anchor, cruising package, auto etc.) boat show specials for the 323 about 100K. I suspect you would be able to negotiate a few more after-factory options into the price (my understanding is that margins on those are much higher than on the boat). There's always: Make an offer on a boat, ready to walk away. You'll know if the price was right or not. If you know you can walk, you are in control and the lack of transparency is less annoying. If you fall in love with a boat, then your negotiation position is substantially weakened
Good luck!
When I was looking for boat last year, I found that the NADA prices for a range of popular newish boats didn't seem to reflect the market out here. Either the boats were advertised at prices way higher (20-30%) than they ultimately were sold for (possible but they seemed to sell), or the NADA prices didn't reflect the market at all. The new boat pricing is a bit of a mystery and I suspect it simply depends on the market. MSRP prices don't help much if the dealers can sell for more (same as with cars). Magazine review prices seem to be quite different from dealer prices also and they seem to be tending low. I suspect it comes down to market, If a dealer has a boat they haven't moved for a while, they will be more willing to negotiate than if they have customers lining up to order the next one. I suspect your price for a "stock" boat will be a lot more negotiable than for a "made to order one". There was thread here a while ago that claimed that Beneteau has some scheme in place to prevent dealers from competing with each other. No idea if this is so, but in many cases having a dealer who will take care of you with warranty issues near-by is certainly worth a few bucks ( in theory, though individual experiences seem to vary greatly) The price you hope to pay for a 323 seems a bit low. The Seattle Beneteau dealer was advertising sail away (anchor, cruising package, auto etc.) boat show specials for the 323 about 100K. I suspect you would be able to negotiate a few more after-factory options into the price (my understanding is that margins on those are much higher than on the boat). There's always: Make an offer on a boat, ready to walk away. You'll know if the price was right or not. If you know you can walk, you are in control and the lack of transparency is less annoying. If you fall in love with a boat, then your negotiation position is substantially weakened
Good luck!Sales regions
Catwith hat is correct. Beneteau will not let dealers DELIVER to another dealer's area. That doesn't stop you from buying wherever you like, but plan on taking delivery within that dealer's region. Then you have the warranty issue. However, just because a dealer is a dealer doesn't mean they are the best to do warranty work. Some dealers may be better than others. My opinion is that a qualified boatyard should be doing warranty work, and Beneteau can reimburse them for it. That is what happened when I had some gelcoat and rudder blister issues on my 321 which i bought used from another state. My local boatyard did the repairs and Benny paid them (after submitting photos and quotes for the work, of course). I really don't think you're going to find a new 323 for under 95K with all the stuff you want. And don't believe the NADA data either. NADA could be using "data" from sales of other Beneteaus in the 32 foot range. Try finding a broker or ask your dealer (who should have access to real data) what used 323's have sold for. Tim
Catwith hat is correct. Beneteau will not let dealers DELIVER to another dealer's area. That doesn't stop you from buying wherever you like, but plan on taking delivery within that dealer's region. Then you have the warranty issue. However, just because a dealer is a dealer doesn't mean they are the best to do warranty work. Some dealers may be better than others. My opinion is that a qualified boatyard should be doing warranty work, and Beneteau can reimburse them for it. That is what happened when I had some gelcoat and rudder blister issues on my 321 which i bought used from another state. My local boatyard did the repairs and Benny paid them (after submitting photos and quotes for the work, of course). I really don't think you're going to find a new 323 for under 95K with all the stuff you want. And don't believe the NADA data either. NADA could be using "data" from sales of other Beneteaus in the 32 foot range. Try finding a broker or ask your dealer (who should have access to real data) what used 323's have sold for. Tim
323 prices
The prices you hope to pay do seem a little low. The prices I have seen lately are around the 100k+ range. If you find one around 80k, jump. Terry
The prices you hope to pay do seem a little low. The prices I have seen lately are around the 100k+ range. If you find one around 80k, jump. Terry
I'll try to get it for 85K
OK Folks, This is what is going on: From what I see, not all dealers are the same. I’ve been talking to at least several of them, and experience varies from very friendly and helpful to something like angry used car salesman. By the way, people here, in Chicago are nice. One guy is almost screaming in his e-mail that I should not look for a good price. I think that I should. Beneteau is in competition with other boat manufactures. If to push price for 323 to 110 +, it is not in competition with 32 Catalinas and Hunters any more. Dufour, Etap, Bavaria just a few names. So what is happening right now is that while Beneteau people are trying to play games, I’ve got quotes from Hunter, Catalina, Etap, and going to ask for quotes Dufour and Bavaria. I am having a feeling that by the time I have sea trial and a price quote arranged by Beneteau, I’ll be sailing Etap or Dufour. I’ll try to get this thread updated; my goal is to buy Beneteau 323 with lifting keel and in mast main for 85K. I won’t be publishing any names, locations or details of my conversations with dealers without their consent. But I think that if I’ll get a good price, other people might want to have it as well. So my guess that dealer who sells it to me for 85 going to sell more than one boat.
OK Folks, This is what is going on: From what I see, not all dealers are the same. I’ve been talking to at least several of them, and experience varies from very friendly and helpful to something like angry used car salesman. By the way, people here, in Chicago are nice. One guy is almost screaming in his e-mail that I should not look for a good price. I think that I should. Beneteau is in competition with other boat manufactures. If to push price for 323 to 110 +, it is not in competition with 32 Catalinas and Hunters any more. Dufour, Etap, Bavaria just a few names. So what is happening right now is that while Beneteau people are trying to play games, I’ve got quotes from Hunter, Catalina, Etap, and going to ask for quotes Dufour and Bavaria. I am having a feeling that by the time I have sea trial and a price quote arranged by Beneteau, I’ll be sailing Etap or Dufour. I’ll try to get this thread updated; my goal is to buy Beneteau 323 with lifting keel and in mast main for 85K. I won’t be publishing any names, locations or details of my conversations with dealers without their consent. But I think that if I’ll get a good price, other people might want to have it as well. So my guess that dealer who sells it to me for 85 going to sell more than one boat.
beneteau 323 price
Thank you Old Cat, This is why I want this boat with lifting keel. I can put it on a trailer and move it by land. But for now I want to stay in the area were I’ll buy this boat for a season or two. So trailer would be an unnecessary expense. What I found strange is that many dealers are surprised when I tell them that I live in Chicago and I want to buy a boat somewhere else. I think that this is what boats are for! Travel, explore places.
Thank you Old Cat, This is why I want this boat with lifting keel. I can put it on a trailer and move it by land. But for now I want to stay in the area were I’ll buy this boat for a season or two. So trailer would be an unnecessary expense. What I found strange is that many dealers are surprised when I tell them that I live in Chicago and I want to buy a boat somewhere else. I think that this is what boats are for! Travel, explore places.
Trailer it??
Good luck trying to trailer a 323... its way over 9 feet wide, you're going to have to apply for permits to move it over the road. Then you have to find somebody with a fairly good size truck anyway to haul it. I would have thought that the sole reason for a lifting/swing keel would have been to take advantage of shallower and perhaps more secluded cruising areas.
Good luck trying to trailer a 323... its way over 9 feet wide, you're going to have to apply for permits to move it over the road. Then you have to find somebody with a fairly good size truck anyway to haul it. I would have thought that the sole reason for a lifting/swing keel would have been to take advantage of shallower and perhaps more secluded cruising areas.
beteneau 323 price
Terry, Thank you! You've don what I was just dreaming about! And your boat is with fixed keel, isn't it? I think that with lifting keel it is going to sit lower on a trailer. Speaking about price. I cannot get a quote for this boat. No price at all! Not 150K, not 100K, not 50K! Looks like that this is something that people should not talk about. But I think we should.
Terry, Thank you! You've don what I was just dreaming about! And your boat is with fixed keel, isn't it? I think that with lifting keel it is going to sit lower on a trailer. Speaking about price. I cannot get a quote for this boat. No price at all! Not 150K, not 100K, not 50K! Looks like that this is something that people should not talk about. But I think we should.
Stepping 323 mast
Doug, right now we use the boat yard to step the mast, but I have an idea for doing it ourselves. This way we could launch the boat and rig it without any help. It takes the wife and I anywhere from 1/2 to 1 day to fully rig the boat or unrig it. This includes the launching and stepping the mast time. Victor, usually the MSRP is higher than the actual price with most products. Have you checked the dealer prices on the Catalina's verses the factory price. I would be suprised the factory would be lower, other than the added commissioning cost from a dealer. Sail On... Terry
Doug, right now we use the boat yard to step the mast, but I have an idea for doing it ourselves. This way we could launch the boat and rig it without any help. It takes the wife and I anywhere from 1/2 to 1 day to fully rig the boat or unrig it. This includes the launching and stepping the mast time. Victor, usually the MSRP is higher than the actual price with most products. Have you checked the dealer prices on the Catalina's verses the factory price. I would be suprised the factory would be lower, other than the added commissioning cost from a dealer. Sail On... Terry
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