Beneteau First 38 Owner with Questions Concerning New Sails

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi all,

New member. My first post. Partner and I bought a 1984 Beneteau First 38 in March this year. We are very pleased with our purchase. Previous sailing experience for both me & partner was almost nil – except for US SAILING 101 course a couple of years ago.

We are the 3rd owners. First owners had done a lot of racing. 2nd owner only did day sailing with a few weekend trips. She had been on the hard for 1.5 years. After purchase in early March we spent every weekend in March, April, & May cleaning her up and checking mechanicals. The summer went too fast. We will be pulling her out of the water next week for indoor storage over the winter. We hope to do a lot of updating over the winter.

The sails are original Elvstrom Sails – both main, storm jib, and ~135% genoa (roller furler). Yeah, maybe 28 years old. We had them inspected by North Sail loft here in Chicago at the beginning of the season. Although a bit stretched, we were advised that they still had a year of two of life remaining. Apparently, these sails were not used much by the 1st owner since they had racing sails. We are preparing to buy new mainsail & genoa. Any suggestions? Since we might do some beer can/Wednesday night racing next year we have been advised to buy largest mainsail allowed for PHRF rating and ~150% rolling genoa. We have contacted both Doyle Sailmakers & North Sail and are evaluating quotes. Any comments on cross cut sails vs. tri-radial cut sails. For now we are only looking at Dacron. Laminates would be at a later date if we have any luck racing.

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor - Chicago

 

[jgurley]

Congratulations! I have the same boat, and it also still has the Elvstrom headsails, and they are quite serviceable. I'm the fourth owner, and the last owner bought a new main a few years ago - I'm afraid I can't remember the loft - someone up in the Pacific Northwest.

I did buy an almost new (used twice) laminate 150% on eBay ($850) that worked very nicely for me this summer, although it isn't as rugged as I would like, I imagine I'll destroy it in a year or two.

I have several other boats, and my most recent new sails have been Quantum (both laminate and dacron) and Ullman (laminates), and I'm very happy with all of them - but I race both boats. The loft I used most recently (Quantum) was the one that gave me a boat show discount (20%) despite there not being a boat show. The discount beat Pineapple Sails to the wire.

My Scottish blood drives me to price shop, so I usually get quotes from Ullman, North, Quantum, UK Halsey, and Pineapple, and go by price. I think all the major lofts do similar work if you can figure out which models (offshore, inshore, etc) are comparable.

Regarding radial versus crosscut, if you're going to race, I guess I'd go radial, but I think newer fabrics are so good that it makes less difference than it once did.

Depending on how much sailing you got in this summer, you might want to just use the Elvstroms for another season to see if a bigger headsail is necessary. My 150% was almost too large in as little as 10 knots of breeze. My boat seems to want to go 7.5+ knots in any direction in almost any wind.

If you do buy a new one, most lofts use similar software to generate the shape, so you have to pick by quality and reputation, which is of course, difficult. All the big lofts use Chinese/Thai manufacturers anyway...

 

[s/v HyLyte]

Hi all,

New member. My first post. Partner and I bought a 1984 Beneteau First 38 in March this year. We are very pleased with our purchase. Previous sailing experience for both me & partner was almost nil – except for US SAILING 101 course a couple of years ago.

We are the 3rd owners. First owners had done a lot of racing. 2nd owner only did day sailing with a few weekend trips. She had been on the hard for 1.5 years. After purchase in early March we spent every weekend in March, April, & May cleaning her up and checking mechanicals. The summer went too fast. We will be pulling her out of the water next week for indoor storage over the winter. We hope to do a lot of updating over the winter.

The sails are original Elvstrom Sails – both main, storm jib, and ~135% genoa (roller furler). Yeah, maybe 28 years old. We had them inspected by North Sail loft here in Chicago at the beginning of the season. Although a bit stretched, we were advised that they still had a year of two of life remaining. Apparently, these sails were not used much by the 1st owner since they had racing sails. We are preparing to buy new mainsail & genoa. Any suggestions? Since we might do some beer can/Wednesday night racing next year we have been advised to buy largest mainsail allowed for PHRF rating and ~150% rolling genoa. We have contacted both Doyle Sailmakers & North Sail and are evaluating quotes. Any comments on cross cut sails vs. tri-radial cut sails. For now we are only looking at Dacron. Laminates would be at a later date if we have any luck racing.

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor - Chicago

Doug--

If you're only doing "Beer Can" racing, you'll most likely be rated under PHRF which will depend upon the size of the sails you are using. As a practical matter, the 150 on a First has relatively limited use, i.e. racing. A 135, 125 or 110 will be more versitile for different conditions and, incidently, far easier to tack when racing which can be quite important in beer-can races with relatively short courses and several windward, leeward, marks. Based upon your description of your existing sails, it might be worth you sending them off to SailCare for a clean-up, repairs, and refinishing. You'll be surprised/pleased at how nicely they turn out and you may easily get several more years out of them. If you are still determined to buy new sails, you might want to check Ullman Sails as well as some of the others you mentioned. We've had several sails built by the Ullman loft and have been very happy with the results and cost.

FWIW...

 

[Jackdaw]

Re: Beneteau First 38 Owner with Questions Concerning New Sa

Choices choices.

As noted, the 150 is good mostly for racing. While cruising it is hard to tack and hard to see around. And the difference in speed, while noticeable in racing, will not be apparent in cruising. While racing a 150, you will need a dedicated crewperson to run the clew around on tacks. Keep that in mind.


If you go with the 150, while cruising most of the time part of it will likely be rolled up to give you a 135, and the sail-shape will be less than ideal, even with a foam luff.

Your venue is Chicago, with a fair amount of light air. If raining is important, go with the 150 and accept the cruising compromises. I personally would go with a 135. Keep the 150 for a light racing day when you think you REALLY need it, and put it on!

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Thanks for your comments & suggestions. How is % genoa calculated? As a percentage of the LP dimension, the J dimension, or the actual area of the triangle formed by I and J?
I seem to recall that % genoa is based on the J dimension. If so, our current furling genoa is a ~149%. (Measured foot of genoa sail = 21.5 ft, J dimension = 14.4 ft, 21.5/14.4 = 149%.

 

[jgurley]

Re: Beneteau First 38 Owner with Questions Concerning New Sa

The LP, which is quite a bit smaller than the foot.

 

[Sandy Stone]

Re: Beneteau First 38 Owner with Questions Concerning New Sa

To be clear, the LP of the sail divided by the J dimension of the boat. Never could figure out why they did it that way.
I agree that it's a pain tacking my 150 (don't even talk about trying to grind it in when the breeze is over 10 knots) but on the light air days we get in the summertime around here, it's very gratifying to sail past almost every boat you come across.

 

[Doug in Lakeview]

Hi Sandy,

You are exactly correct. The % genoa is calculated by dividing the LP measurement (which is measured at a 90 deg right angle from the luff to the clew) and thus is the shortest distance between the luff and the clew).

Attached is a link to Jasper & Bailey’s (Rhode Island based sailmaker) website where they provide a good explanation with a sketch of 100%, 130%, and 150% genoas.

www.jasperandbailey.com/tech/headsails.html

We took our sails down last weekend and measured all of the sails on the grass. Our current roller furling genoa is 140%. (Measure LP = 20.2 ft & J = 14.4 ft; thus a ~140% genoa).

Based on all the good feedback from everyone we are planning on ordering a 135% genoa this year (Dacron – either crosscut or radial) with the intention of using this as our everyday headsail. In a few years, if we decide to aggressively participate in racing we would consider getting a 150% genoa (laminate) at that time just for racing.

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago

 

[Sandy Stone]

Re: Beneteau First 38 Owner with Questions Concerning New Sa

If you're getting a 135 for general daysailing, not racing, give strong consideration to asking the sailmaker to build it with a fairly high clew. Forward visibility will be greatly improved.