This fixed my VERY stiff steering. If you take off your steering wheel at the helm. Take the alloy cast cover off to expose the stainless steel shaft. Inside the housing there can be corrosion between the SS shaft and the alloy housing. The corrosion dust can collect between the shaft and the housing causing the shaft to jam or become stiff. Clear out the dust and spread some grease around freely. After this my shaft would spin freely using just a light finger touch.
Beneteau 361 stiff steering
- Thread starter SCFoster
- Start date
Thanks for the input.
Took the chain off the shaft and the wheel spins freely. So for my case that's probably not a factor.
With the chain off and cables unloaded, using the emergency tiller required the exact same amount of effort (a lot) to move the rudder.
Working with a knowledgable marine mechanic. He thinks I'm fine until the haul out in the fall, as long as I'm not planning any long trips (which I'm not).
Will post findings at haul out.
Will still need to do what you're proposing as the wheel lock does not work at all.
Took the chain off the shaft and the wheel spins freely. So for my case that's probably not a factor.
With the chain off and cables unloaded, using the emergency tiller required the exact same amount of effort (a lot) to move the rudder.
Working with a knowledgable marine mechanic. He thinks I'm fine until the haul out in the fall, as long as I'm not planning any long trips (which I'm not).
Will post findings at haul out.
Will still need to do what you're proposing as the wheel lock does not work at all.
Finally had the boat hauled out and have gotten around to attempting to drop the rudder.
For some reason, after taking out the two retaining bolts, I cannot get the rudder to drop all the way. Any ideas if I've missed somethign
On the rudder quadrant, loosened the two tensioners for the cables to the helm, so the cables were very loose.
Removed the two bolts that ran through the bottom of the quadrant and the one going through the upper bushing.
Checked that the quadrant did not have any sort of split in the top of it where a bolt could be tightened to pinch the rudder shaft.
Rocked the rudder blade back and forth and was able to drop the rudder by about an inch. Then it stopped dropping.
Took the emergency tiller bar and placed it in the top of the rudder shaft. Was able to pound on the top of it to drive the rudder down further, but again it stopped moving.
The top of the rudder shaft is now less than 1/8" protruding above the top of the quadrant (started at about 1.5").
I don't want to keep pounding on the top of the shaft, if I've forgotten to loosen or remove something.
Anyone have experience with this? I've reached out to Tides Marine to see if they can assist.
For some reason, after taking out the two retaining bolts, I cannot get the rudder to drop all the way. Any ideas if I've missed somethign
On the rudder quadrant, loosened the two tensioners for the cables to the helm, so the cables were very loose.
Removed the two bolts that ran through the bottom of the quadrant and the one going through the upper bushing.
Checked that the quadrant did not have any sort of split in the top of it where a bolt could be tightened to pinch the rudder shaft.
Rocked the rudder blade back and forth and was able to drop the rudder by about an inch. Then it stopped dropping.
Took the emergency tiller bar and placed it in the top of the rudder shaft. Was able to pound on the top of it to drive the rudder down further, but again it stopped moving.
The top of the rudder shaft is now less than 1/8" protruding above the top of the quadrant (started at about 1.5").
I don't want to keep pounding on the top of the shaft, if I've forgotten to loosen or remove something.
Anyone have experience with this? I've reached out to Tides Marine to see if they can assist.
Yup your on the right track it should just drop right out grab the rudder and twist it back and forth , it should let go
In your picture it looks like runs of epoxy on the outside of the bearing . Thats not right there should be nothing on the outside and it most likely a shotty repair causing your stiff steering
In your picture it looks like runs of epoxy on the outside of the bearing . Thats not right there should be nothing on the outside and it most likely a shotty repair causing your stiff steering
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The picture showing the lower bushing looks interesting. Was this fixed previous or is that from the factory.?
It may be the way the picture is shown, but it looks like the adhesive has bonded the shaft and bushing so the bushing was rotating within the rudder tube.
(Just an observation) Also missing is the compensation nylon washer, I believe.
It may be the way the picture is shown, but it looks like the adhesive has bonded the shaft and bushing so the bushing was rotating within the rudder tube.
(Just an observation) Also missing is the compensation nylon washer, I believe.
Was able to remove the rudder. Put a jack under the rudder and lifted it slowly back up.
Tapped on the top of the rudder quadrant to lower it on the rudder post, exposing the top of the shaft.
Took some sandpaper to it, hoping to smooth it out a bit, then applied a liberal amount of silicone lubricant.
Lowered the jack, inserted the metal emergency tiller on top of the rudder shaft then pounded on top with a mallet.
Dropped pretty quickly and 'stuck' in the same location, with about 3mm (1/8") of the rudder shaft sticking up above the quadrant.
Said a silent prayer then gave the top of the shaft some good bashes and it dropped below the surface of the quadrant. Now I knew it was just a matter of tapping it out. Another couple minutes of light tapping and it dropped all the way.
Thankfully, the hole I had dug was barely deep enough. Was surprised at lightness of the rudder assembly. The carbon fiber definitely cut the weight of the shaft in half.
This assembly is definitely different than post hull #200 361's. There is no split ring in the rudder tube. It's a solid bearing surface. Also no washer. I can see why Beneteau cut costs. This must have cost some $$$. Will be sending pictures to Tides Marine who made the sub 200 hull number assemblies, so they can make sure there aren't parts missing.
Both rudder bushings have light debris stuck to them. Not bad for 20 years but I can see how the steering could stiffen as whatever is stuck to the bushings expanded by absorbing water. Also antifouling paint had been jammed up inside the lower bushing surface.
The observations of adhesive or epoxy on the bushing was actually the lubricant I had sprayed to assist with removal.
Tapped on the top of the rudder quadrant to lower it on the rudder post, exposing the top of the shaft.
Took some sandpaper to it, hoping to smooth it out a bit, then applied a liberal amount of silicone lubricant.
Lowered the jack, inserted the metal emergency tiller on top of the rudder shaft then pounded on top with a mallet.
Dropped pretty quickly and 'stuck' in the same location, with about 3mm (1/8") of the rudder shaft sticking up above the quadrant.
Said a silent prayer then gave the top of the shaft some good bashes and it dropped below the surface of the quadrant. Now I knew it was just a matter of tapping it out. Another couple minutes of light tapping and it dropped all the way.
Thankfully, the hole I had dug was barely deep enough. Was surprised at lightness of the rudder assembly. The carbon fiber definitely cut the weight of the shaft in half.
This assembly is definitely different than post hull #200 361's. There is no split ring in the rudder tube. It's a solid bearing surface. Also no washer. I can see why Beneteau cut costs. This must have cost some $$$. Will be sending pictures to Tides Marine who made the sub 200 hull number assemblies, so they can make sure there aren't parts missing.
Both rudder bushings have light debris stuck to them. Not bad for 20 years but I can see how the steering could stiffen as whatever is stuck to the bushings expanded by absorbing water. Also antifouling paint had been jammed up inside the lower bushing surface.
The observations of adhesive or epoxy on the bushing was actually the lubricant I had sprayed to assist with removal.
Nice, however that is different then other Beneteau bearings I have seen ,Ones I have repaired are delrin up top and bronze split below with a compensation thrust washer. That looks like there is a delrin bushing in the hole and a delrin sleeve on the rudder post , so its delrin against delrin ? Mine and is composite post but when it gets to the rudder is stainless steel that the bronze bearing goes on . My guess they changed style to stop glass from wearing.
Maybe just sanding sleeve on rudder a bit grease and reinstall will fix your issue
Maybe just sanding sleeve on rudder a bit grease and reinstall will fix your issue
The manufacturer in Florida to which he refers is Tides Marine. Will be calling them in the morning, to figure out what materials are used for the upper and lower bushings and the vertical tube.
There is definitely crud on the two bushing surfaces and some light scoring in the vertical tube. Want to discuss what the best way is to dress the surfaces. The good news is there was no play in the rudder, so a bit of sanding should be fine.
There is definitely crud on the two bushing surfaces and some light scoring in the vertical tube. Want to discuss what the best way is to dress the surfaces. The good news is there was no play in the rudder, so a bit of sanding should be fine.
Spoke to Tides Marine today. The bushings on the rudder stock are made of fiberglass and carbon fiber. It was recommended to clean the surfaces and use a scotchbrite pad. If there are still small bumps, then they can be sanded and a coat of epoxy to smooth/seal the surface.
The vertical rudder tube is sleeved with UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene) which is described as an extremely tough plastic with high abrasion and wear resistance. It has very low moisture absorption properties and is used for marine dock fenders. Was told to only clean the inner surface of the tube at most with a scotchbrite pad. No sanding should be done.
There are no other parts to the assembly (no thrust washer) and no Delrin is used.
The vertical rudder tube is sleeved with UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene) which is described as an extremely tough plastic with high abrasion and wear resistance. It has very low moisture absorption properties and is used for marine dock fenders. Was told to only clean the inner surface of the tube at most with a scotchbrite pad. No sanding should be done.
There are no other parts to the assembly (no thrust washer) and no Delrin is used.
That's good news. UHMW is also used in the Beverage Industry for wear strips under the conveyor beds and guide rails.
The only reason my rudder needs the thrust washer is because our bearing would allow the rudder to bottom out against the hull without it..
Your photo of the rudder tube shows a bearing stop inside the tube. That way the lower bearing can only go up so far.
Let us know how the assembly goes and if the initial problem is solved.
The only reason my rudder needs the thrust washer is because our bearing would allow the rudder to bottom out against the hull without it..
Your photo of the rudder tube shows a bearing stop inside the tube. That way the lower bearing can only go up so far.
Let us know how the assembly goes and if the initial problem is solved.
Funny they would use UHMW ,one it is difficult to machine , it is subject to creep under load which means it deforms and doesn't return , it s more slippery than delrin however you can get delrin with additive making it just as slippery (expensive) both are good for not absorbing water( swelling) both are strong ,it's cheap less than 1/4the price of delrin, 2 inch x1 ft 16.00 same in delrin 75.00 buts its good for not growing bacteria in food industry. In where they are using it against to UHMW surfaces its for that use. Delrin is better against a rough surface such as rudder post or steel
In Industrial applications for bearings, guide wheels, delrin is the go to material . I machined my upper bearing out of delrin 3 years ago no play , i've also machined , anchor rollers , and sheaves for myself and many others.
In Industrial applications for bearings, guide wheels, delrin is the go to material . I machined my upper bearing out of delrin 3 years ago no play , i've also machined , anchor rollers , and sheaves for myself and many others.
For a 20 year old installation, pretty impressed there is really no wear at all.
The issue is the antifouling that kept getting sprayed up onto the lower bushing surface.
The previous owner had the marina spray on a coating during winter haul outs over 20 years.
Will clean the surfaces and reinstall.
The issue is the antifouling that kept getting sprayed up onto the lower bushing surface.
The previous owner had the marina spray on a coating during winter haul outs over 20 years.
Will clean the surfaces and reinstall.