Beneteau 235 big enough for Ocean travel???

[r.w.landau]

Jeff, for me, until we know who your are,

I really don't value your input. You are not willing to stand behind it and you think you know more than everyone. so, until you decide to let us know who you are, your posts will mean nothing to me.Someone like Ross has told us who he is and his sailing experience. He is someone that if there is a question that he doesn't know, he digs in and finds good advice with the back up that is trust worthy. With you, all we have is what you say. You have no back up or resources to up hold your position. My point is if you want people to trust your opinion, you need to give us some info on you. If you want to be a loose cannon, not many people here will take your info seriously. There is too much to lose. If you don't let us know who you are, at least back your info with some links to support your opinion. r.w.landau

 

[Jeff]

Just in time

Just in time, was just signing off.Again: Does this mean I have to register or do you want life story here?At what point did I say I wasn't willing to stand behind what I say?Again: Not here to argue, while fun at times it's becoming annoying. I don't know everything(but almost ), am just posting additional ideas and logic. Does this mean I have to post links, documents and schematics too? It's just ideas and advice. People can take it into consideration, agreedisagree or toss it out.I've been on hundreds of boats and met as many skippers and captains, all with slightly or enourmously different points of view from each other and in many cases myself. All of these views were expert views. The encounters were courteous and fun and at no point was being right the topic.I'm not the slightest bit concerned with how others posting formats are, nor if someone puts value in the message. I am who I am (popeye).

 

[r.w.landau]

Thanks Jeff, You have just told

everyone here what you feel about posting here. You don't really care.r.w.landau

 

[Waffle]

r.w.landau, you are missing the point

you can tell show someone is by the post they make. You can get a feel for their experience level and understand of the sport of sailing. Your post tell us that you are new to sailing but enjoy it very much. See, I don't have to read your profile or ask you your back ground!

 

[Waffle]

Ross, with this statement you show your

lack of sailing experience, "A Pacific Seacraft is far too large for me". I meet a Irish lad with a new 24 foot A Pacific Seacraft in Florida. He purchase it in the US and was sailing back to Ireland hoping to get a break on the VAT tax. Please feel free to check out the link to the Pacific Seacraft Dana 24 Specifications.You have to realize that there is a real responsibility to help out new sailor on this site. I would hope that would not die at sea because he was listening to newbie sailor. Ross when you rebuild your boat did you strengthen the running rigging and chainplates? Did you reinforce the keel bolts? Did you install a windvane auto pilot? If you didn't maybe it is still a coastal cruiser.http://www.carolinawind.com/htm/psc/psc24open.htm

 

[r.w.landau]

Waffle, I have posted here almost 10 years.

I have seen very good posters give it up because the new posters wore them down. When some one here isn't willing to tell us who he is, I don't care if they post here anymore.This site has proved itself for more than 10 years. it is because people cared about what they posted. If this site is now a bunch of free, loose cannons, that can say what they want with out accountability, I want nothing more to do with this site. I don't think that is the case. I believe that this site has been a main stay for many sailors! It has honest advice and people are willing to stand behind it.Waffle, you have been here under a year. You barged your way in. I have watched you enter this site.Much of your original advice was scary.I have to say that you have become a fair poster. You seem to have some concerned with your reputation. That is good.Jeff is unwilling to let us know who he is. I would rather he didn't post. Waffle, following your posts since you have come here, much of your original stuff was not good. You have stayed here and seen the value of good advice and have contributed to it. Your advice is still questionable as you still protect yourself from letting us know your background.Good sailingr.w.landau

 

[newly anonymous]

If you gotta ask....

...then the standard answer on this web ought to be as follows:Q: "Is the XYZ 333 a bluewater boat?A: "Not for you."Q: "Can I take an ABC 227 on a coastal cruise?"A: "Please don't."Q: "I'm considering circumnavigation. What boat should I buy?"A: "That boat does not yet exist."Q: "Can I cruise without a radar/gps/VHF/anchor/girlfriend?" A: "Not yet."Q: "I'm looking for an older Huneteaualina 445 that only costs $45."A: "Hold out for a Swan 67, then get back to us."

 

[sailaway78]

Don't

I have a little experience in a boat of approx this size, and I can tell you not to try it. South America???? Many years ago when I was much younger, and even more stupid than I was young, I sailed a Chrysler 22, across the Gulf from Corpus to Cancun, and as far down the Yucatan as Punta Allen, and back to Corpus. My navagation equipment was a compass and a couple of old charts. That was during the early years when I was ten feet tall, bullet proof and not real smart. Sometimes I do get lucky, and the good Lord looks out for fools and idiots. Also, as you show home as Chicago,I think that maybe you do not have any idea of what offshore sailing is about. The great lakes are big, and they can get nasty, but it still isn't six or seven hundred miles of open water. They don't have things like the gulf stream, that can run as high as four knots. So it can and has been done, by even smaller boats. But I wouldn't recommend you try it.

 

[Jeff]

Modesty

Am embarrased to talk directly about myself. You got me.Been working on this the last hour, hope it is appreciated, could be swilling cabernet in Avalon right now.I am unwilling to disclose any specific identity details for obvious reasons of identity security.Learned to sail at 7-8 years old with church group in a dinghy(s) I have no idea what it was.Joined the US Coast Guard at 19 and bashed around in a 110' island class out of San Diego.Went to UC San Diego and earned a degree in Computer Science. During which crewed on an Island Packet 38 cutter with a friend who's dad owned the boat out of San Diego Harbor.9 years later, owned sporting goods store for 5 years, at which time re-entered sailing with a Catalina 25 and cruised back and forth as far as from Santa Barbara to San Diego. Sold boat, it was subsequently mushed at anchor by an old skipjack and was a total loss (long story).Owned other small boats, catalina 250, J-24, and 2 powerboats (oops). All with associated long stories.In 1997 crewed on an Endeavor 42 to Hawaii, Big Island, Maui. Another long story.Purchased Capri 26. Best small cruiser
acer in history if only for it's versatility. Then came the Hinckley Bermuda sloop(after some increase in salary). Refurbished over 2.5 years, this in now my hang out away from home, cruiser of California coast and racing champion. 8 wins, 19 place (club racing) and endless beer can race wins. However a bit of a handful single hand, so day sails and single hand races are in the Capri. Both boats docked in Dana Point.I volunteer as an assistant(not licensed) instructor for a local (unnamed) youth group.I have sailed on numerous different types of boats with as many different types of skippers and Captains in virtually all conditions except hurricane, which we don't get out here.I've also read hundreds of books and possibly every periodical on the subject of sailing and vessel handling.That's about it.

 

[sailaway78]

John Farnsworth and Jeff

John, I love the standard answers post. Maybe I can just put in the computer and click on it when needed. Jeff, I am beginning to wonder about your intelligence. Either you are lacking in that dept. or you have a sense of humor that evades me. Another possibility is that you have never stepped foot on a real sail boat. Many of us on here disagree on things, but I respect different opinions as much as I respect those who agree with me. But you are totally off the wall sometimes.

 

[jeff]

yep

Yes, never stepped foot on a sailboat. How intelligent.Thank you for your wisdom.Egos galore.Sorry for my input. Go spit.

 

[cat38skip]

What the hell what the hell what the hell

Why has this become a pissing match?? Although I am firmly in r.w.'s corner...Now I better go check my bio information.That said ... has anyone answered the original question ??My only experience with a Beneteau boat has been with a friends' 331. The boat is rather tender, has a tendancy to round up and it is overpowerd easily. I would hesitate to take it very far offshore. If the 235 is similarly designed, it is not a worthy offshore boat. You might be able to make modifications to the boat to make it better but a purpose-designed boat would certainly serve you better. Many people go to sea in the most unlikely vessels and the ocean lets them go. I would not count on the oceans' leniency. You might check your choices against these:http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__capsize.htmhttp://www.image-ination.com/sailcalcv1.html

 

[Ross]

Jeff, your sailing experience is impressive.

However I wonder about your social skills. You seem to regard ignorance as the same as stupidity and exhibit little patience with either. It doesn't cost anything to be kind and polite when you are offering your opinion. Your heavy handed presentation does not make your words anymore believable. You have ably placed catagories of need in the sailing preparation but in each case there was attached a snear in the presentation, implying that if we were worthy of your company and counsel we would already know and understand these things and wouldn't be wasting your time asking. If I have missed the mark here then I am sorry but that is the way you came across to me.Ross

 

[Ross]

Waffle, I have been trying to ignore you and your

nastiness but you insist on perpetuating this. Jeff made a snide comment concerning a 40 something Pacific seacraft. THAT is too large for me! Yes, when I rebuilt my boat I changed the chainplates to outboard chainplates mounted on a reinforced hull. I have internal ballast so there are no bolts. I increased the size of the standing rigging by one standard size. I have not installed a wind vane because I don't have a need for one at this time. You may sail your boat where ever you will and whenever you will but please go sailing and find another outlet for your unpleasant attitude.

 

[William12213]

Have a great time

I am not so sure that boat size has a lot to do with it. Of course there are boats that are more suited for such a trip but that is not the original question. I read of a couple that sailed a Mac 25 from Toronto Canada to Austriala. so I know you can do that. I also read a story in Latts and Atts of a guy from Minnasota (I believe) That built a 10' homebuilt sailboat and sailed it from California to Hawaii so I know that can be done.The big Questions are your sailing experience and your desire. If you have the skills to make the trip you are further ahead than a lot of people with much larger boats. I am a firm believer that disire can get you a long way towards your goal. If you have the heart, the fact that you are in a smaller boat doesn't matter, if it is about being comfortable and living large you are not gonna have a great trip.I used to sail a MAC 25 on the Great Lakes. They are not oceans but they are very big and they can get some huge swells. The boat handled it fine but that is not to say that there wasn't a few times I wondered what I was thinking. I have a hunch most boaters that attempt what you are saying have had those same thoughts. If you think that a bigger boat is going to keep anything bad from happening just look at how many frieghters and oceanliners have gone down. Also keep in mind that plenty of smaller boats have circled the world...it is all what you are comfortable with.This form is a great resource but keep in mind that everyone has an opinion and many feel that thiers is the only one that should or could be right. Becareful who you let control your dreams..the decision in yours.Live Your Dreams, Don't Dream your Life

 

[Bob7291]

Probabilities

An important aspect of sailing in unprotected waters is the skipper's ability to minimize the probabilities of bad things happening. Part of that deals with physical matters such as boat selection, gear condition, back-up and emergency equipment, etc. Another part deals with planning, decision-making, and overall seamanship. An inexperienced, arrogant skipper on a sound boat is generally much more dangerous than an experienced, alert skipper on a marginal vessel. No amount of planning, boat selection, gear purchasing, etc. can eliminate the possibility of disaster, but it is possible to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. The question then becomes, what is your acceptable level of risk? Whis brings up another question too: are you capable of accurately assessing the true risk? The sea is neutral - it won't "try" to kill you, but it is mercilessly uncaring if you guess wrong. So it all comes down to what degree of risk is acceptable to YOU. I always wonder at the guys who buy a high performance crotch-rocket motorcycle, then purchase the cheapest helmet in the store.

 

[Ross in Tampa]

Well said Bill...

Thanks Bill, very well written.

 

[Waffle]

Ross, I would love to see some pics

of the new chain plates and how you installed them. Is your keel structural bonded to the hull? That is nice becuase all keel bolts leak at some point or another. You didn't say a 40' Pacific seacraft, you said Pacific seacraft was too big. The 24' Pacific seacraft is a blue water boat. Ross, I am sure you are a great boat tech and you have a great hands on skills set. I am sure that a man like you has a lot to offer...

 

[tom]

A man has to know his limitations(dirty harry??)

You learn your limitations through experience. Hopefully that experience doesn't kill you. flyingrv6 just try to learn your and your boat's limitations close to rescue. I almost died sailing my laser off of the beach one spring. The water was still too cold but the air was warm and the wind was blowing. After two pitchpoles from burying the bow in the back of waves I was so cold that I couldn't think. I remember being about a mile offshore and luffing the sail and pointing the bow towards shore. Next thing I rememeber was being just outside the surf zone. I survived but it was pure dumb luck because if I had been flipped again I was too cold to get back in the boat. After that experience when the wind was up and the water cold I went to a small lake to sail. LUCKY me while in the lake in high winds I flipped and the wind blew the boat away from me faster than I can swim....but being in a small lake I just swanm to shore and walked around the lake to where my boat had blown ashore. Losing hold of the boat would have been fatal that day in the ocean. Sailing the keys would be a great learning experience. Hawk channel is relatively smooth due to the reefs and then you can go out to the dry tortugas if all goes well. When I chartered a boat the company warned me that if I went to the Dry Tortugas and got stuck that it would cost me big time for them to come and get the boat. He said that they had several people get to the Dry Tortugas and get scared to sail back. Personally I think that anything is possible. I met an old guy in the early seventy's that was sailing a homemade rowboat from Guadalcanal to Japan. He had made it to Luzon island. He looked really rough but was living his dream. He was a retired merchant marine and his rowboat was very solidly built with a small sail. I never found out if he made it to Japan ,quit or died trying. He did have the advantage of being able to pull his rowboat up on the beach at night.

 

[Paul H]

r.w. Landau...

while VERY new to this forum, and what I would call moderately new to the sailing community (2 years actual sailing...and 15 years in the Navy). I would imagine that newbies like me, by and large, can easily see who the experienced sailors are on this forum (yourself, Ross, Mainesail...to name a few), and value their advice based on the manner in which they respond to new sailors, with seemingly (for you experienced folk) inane questions. All other advice, IMHO, should be taken with a grain of salt. It's funny sometimes to read the posts when someone offers great advice, that's logical, and makes perfect sense...there's always (what I like to call) "counter advice"...which isn't at all logical, and doesn't make any sense. When they're called on it...they get defensive, and act like it's the only advice that should be taken. Oh well, I guess it takes all kinds.I admit it, I was one of those guys that asked the question "is this boat seaworthy?", due in part to my inexperience in sailing. I have since learned (by way of this forum) and my own naval experience the limitations of my vessel. I don't post here very often, but I do read and enjoy the advice offered up here. So please...keep going with the great advice, all of you experienced sailors...there are people out here who can separate the good advice from the bad.Thanks a million,Paul H.