I've wanted to get a small sailboat around 10K and I love the design of the 235 but I'm worried its not big enough for travel down to the Islands and South America. Would anyone tell me if this size boat is big enough or would I need at least something like a Catalina 30? Its just myself and maybe one other person. I like its size for taking out to lake Michigan but very worried she'd get lost in the heavy seas. Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks. Jeffrey
Beneteau 235 big enough for ocean travel?
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Matter of comfort.....
There are all sorts of accounts of small sail boats going everywhere. I think it first starts with a very capable captain (in some cases sheer luck). However I will say, I would much rather be on my 36-2 then a 25 foot boat as it takes the seas much nicer. Easier on the body. A friend of mine got a sum of cash and bought a 1 year old 25 foot Catalina. He or his wife had never sailed and he thought he could get her into it. He turned out to be very capable and confident in himself and loved it, however his wife hated it as the boat was all over the place when wind was over 15 knots. I took her on my old boat (Cal 34 III - For sale) in 20 knot winds and she loved it. Thats my opinion...I am sure people better qualified will also resond. Good Luck! Greg P36-2
There are all sorts of accounts of small sail boats going everywhere. I think it first starts with a very capable captain (in some cases sheer luck). However I will say, I would much rather be on my 36-2 then a 25 foot boat as it takes the seas much nicer. Easier on the body. A friend of mine got a sum of cash and bought a 1 year old 25 foot Catalina. He or his wife had never sailed and he thought he could get her into it. He turned out to be very capable and confident in himself and loved it, however his wife hated it as the boat was all over the place when wind was over 15 knots. I took her on my old boat (Cal 34 III - For sale) in 20 knot winds and she loved it. Thats my opinion...I am sure people better qualified will also resond. Good Luck! Greg P36-2
southern cross 28
well donna lange is completing a solo circumnavigation on a 28ft so i guess its all in your seamanship and the right equipment
well donna lange is completing a solo circumnavigation on a 28ft so i guess its all in your seamanship and the right equipment
There are many factors that affect "seakindliness"
Length is only one. There have been many books written on the subject but the simple answer is the more boat that there is below the waterline the more comfortable she is likely to be. Another way to put it is that not all twenty-three foot boats are created equal. Take a look at the Bruce Bingham "Flicka" for a prime example.
Length is only one. There have been many books written on the subject but the simple answer is the more boat that there is below the waterline the more comfortable she is likely to be. Another way to put it is that not all twenty-three foot boats are created equal. Take a look at the Bruce Bingham "Flicka" for a prime example.
235 big enough?
My first boat was a 235. Had her out in breaking seas and she handle it very well. Would I take her to the islands? No. Not to say she wouldn't make it but if your caught out in bad weather your going to feel it. Bigger boats give you the option of installing a dodger and bimini both worth their weight in gold in foul weather. Another issue is the 235 uses an outboard for motoring. It would be vulnerable in following seas not to mention easy to steal. If your happy with her ability to stand up in bad weather and your comfortable with the cabin go for it. Perhaps make plans with waypoints. Continue on until you find a reason to turn back. Do it in legs so if you do need to turn back you can do so as safely as possible. Good luck!
My first boat was a 235. Had her out in breaking seas and she handle it very well. Would I take her to the islands? No. Not to say she wouldn't make it but if your caught out in bad weather your going to feel it. Bigger boats give you the option of installing a dodger and bimini both worth their weight in gold in foul weather. Another issue is the 235 uses an outboard for motoring. It would be vulnerable in following seas not to mention easy to steal. If your happy with her ability to stand up in bad weather and your comfortable with the cabin go for it. Perhaps make plans with waypoints. Continue on until you find a reason to turn back. Do it in legs so if you do need to turn back you can do so as safely as possible. Good luck!
John Vigor wrote a book about it
Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere, or something like that. Try finding the book, should still be in print. Then of course there's the Boat Babe who took their 25 to the islands and back.
Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere, or something like that. Try finding the book, should still be in print. Then of course there's the Boat Babe who took their 25 to the islands and back.
Spelling police!!!
Some of us must be closer to crazy then others. If you can't figure out what he's trying to say let me know, I'll see if I can explain it to you. Tom s/v GAIA
Some of us must be closer to crazy then others. If you can't figure out what he's trying to say let me know, I'll see if I can explain it to you. Tom s/v GAIA
Small Boats
It all boils down to the ability of the skipper above all else. A competent skipper is going to be better off in a 23 than a bad skipper in a 33. That being said you are going to get the hell pounded out of you when it gets nasty out there in the smaller boat. I recently moved up from a 28 to a 37. While the 28 is a really good boat, and very seaworthy, the difference in the ride is substancial. By the way, my 28 is currently for sale, and in your price range. It has all the goodies you would need for any offshore passage.
It all boils down to the ability of the skipper above all else. A competent skipper is going to be better off in a 23 than a bad skipper in a 33. That being said you are going to get the hell pounded out of you when it gets nasty out there in the smaller boat. I recently moved up from a 28 to a 37. While the 28 is a really good boat, and very seaworthy, the difference in the ride is substancial. By the way, my 28 is currently for sale, and in your price range. It has all the goodies you would need for any offshore passage.
Not for most people, but
if your question was "can it be done?" Then - sure, people have cruised the islands and even circumnavigated in all manner of boats that wouldn't make anyones top ten or 100 list. However, the 235 is a daysailor. Pocket cruisers start at about 25'. They are characterized by fixed ballasted keels, sufficient below deck space so that normal sized people can stand up and move around without stooping or crawling, and an inboard diesel engine that can make hot water, charge house batteries, etc. Cruising for an extended time on a daysailor means you are essentially camping - maybe this is fine for you; or maybe you will compensate by marina hopping. However, most people would find the lack of an inboard (and the equipment it can support) unacceptable for extended live-aboard cruising. A bigger small boat is a better choice - For some of the best bahamas/caribbean logs ever written (two people and a dog on a CS 27) go here: http://www3.sympatico.ca/destinycalls/
if your question was "can it be done?" Then - sure, people have cruised the islands and even circumnavigated in all manner of boats that wouldn't make anyones top ten or 100 list. However, the 235 is a daysailor. Pocket cruisers start at about 25'. They are characterized by fixed ballasted keels, sufficient below deck space so that normal sized people can stand up and move around without stooping or crawling, and an inboard diesel engine that can make hot water, charge house batteries, etc. Cruising for an extended time on a daysailor means you are essentially camping - maybe this is fine for you; or maybe you will compensate by marina hopping. However, most people would find the lack of an inboard (and the equipment it can support) unacceptable for extended live-aboard cruising. A bigger small boat is a better choice - For some of the best bahamas/caribbean logs ever written (two people and a dog on a CS 27) go here: http://www3.sympatico.ca/destinycalls/
Gat a blue water boat!
that is more important than the size! Beneteau, Catalina and Hunter are ok for short hops outside but they are not built to handle storms and other hazards like a blue water boat! I like the lower cost production boats but when I am outside I want a overbuild boat just in case. PS: the Gat was for Ross
that is more important than the size! Beneteau, Catalina and Hunter are ok for short hops outside but they are not built to handle storms and other hazards like a blue water boat! I like the lower cost production boats but when I am outside I want a overbuild boat just in case. PS: the Gat was for Ross
West Wight Potter 19..
I recall an article in Sail Magazine a few years back about a guy who sailed his 19' W.W.Potter from Claifornis to Hawaii..the boat was heavily modified and made the trip ok. Having said that..and having been off-shore..I personally would not go try anything of the sort.I like living far too much.If it were me..I'd shop around for something closer to 30'..and heavier than the Catalina 30.There are alot of used boats out there you can get for 10k that are capable vessels and larger than what your looking for..THAT WILL GIVE YOU SOME LEEWAY IN THE EVENT YOUR NOT SUPER-SAILORMAN.Find a capable boat..and then find a competant Instructor..Off-Shore is not a good school to go to for a Crash Course in anything.Work up to it..practice..and learn before you go as much as is possible.That way IF you get caught OUT THERE in some foul weather..or lose a rudder..or have an engine failure (when it comes to an OutBoard quiting on you the word to use is WHEN not IF)..you'll know what to do to keep you and your crew safe and back home..we hope. Good Luck and Fair Winds Brother>>> David
I recall an article in Sail Magazine a few years back about a guy who sailed his 19' W.W.Potter from Claifornis to Hawaii..the boat was heavily modified and made the trip ok. Having said that..and having been off-shore..I personally would not go try anything of the sort.I like living far too much.If it were me..I'd shop around for something closer to 30'..and heavier than the Catalina 30.There are alot of used boats out there you can get for 10k that are capable vessels and larger than what your looking for..THAT WILL GIVE YOU SOME LEEWAY IN THE EVENT YOUR NOT SUPER-SAILORMAN.Find a capable boat..and then find a competant Instructor..Off-Shore is not a good school to go to for a Crash Course in anything.Work up to it..practice..and learn before you go as much as is possible.That way IF you get caught OUT THERE in some foul weather..or lose a rudder..or have an engine failure (when it comes to an OutBoard quiting on you the word to use is WHEN not IF)..you'll know what to do to keep you and your crew safe and back home..we hope. Good Luck and Fair Winds Brother>>> David
Cost vs living accomidations
Sure it is possible but you had better like "roughing it". The basics of life are a personal thing but sink, shower, head and hot water certainly go a long way to taking the sting out of "roughing it". Add in a solar panel to recharge the nav lights and you can start to think about a multiple day cruse with several nights under sail........ It all comes down to balancing $$$ and what you can stand to be without in the way of "luxury". Another way to think of it is as an efficency appartment. You still have the basics. Don't forget to factor in crew needs too. My absolutely minimalist cruse equipment list is: head, sink, shower w/hot fresh water 12 v reefer, gas cook top, galley sink compass, maps of all areas I MIGHT visit, at least one sea birth with lee cloths, and all the USCG required PFD, bells, whistles, lights......
Sure it is possible but you had better like "roughing it". The basics of life are a personal thing but sink, shower, head and hot water certainly go a long way to taking the sting out of "roughing it". Add in a solar panel to recharge the nav lights and you can start to think about a multiple day cruse with several nights under sail........ It all comes down to balancing $$$ and what you can stand to be without in the way of "luxury". Another way to think of it is as an efficency appartment. You still have the basics. Don't forget to factor in crew needs too. My absolutely minimalist cruse equipment list is: head, sink, shower w/hot fresh water 12 v reefer, gas cook top, galley sink compass, maps of all areas I MIGHT visit, at least one sea birth with lee cloths, and all the USCG required PFD, bells, whistles, lights......
And then you....
also need ground tackle, storm sails or a rabbits foot that works, some way to repair the sails when the rabbits foot doesn't work, and inverter to charge the video camera, sextant w/all the books or a GPS, a powerfull flash light for those night time approaches, spare cloths storage, food storage, water storage or a catchment systems....... The list just goes on and on. Solo, sure, it can be done, with two folks you are going to be hard pressed to get everything you need in a boat that small and not have a divorce in the process.
also need ground tackle, storm sails or a rabbits foot that works, some way to repair the sails when the rabbits foot doesn't work, and inverter to charge the video camera, sextant w/all the books or a GPS, a powerfull flash light for those night time approaches, spare cloths storage, food storage, water storage or a catchment systems....... The list just goes on and on. Solo, sure, it can be done, with two folks you are going to be hard pressed to get everything you need in a boat that small and not have a divorce in the process.
Design not size
A capsize ratio of 2.47 means once a 9 foot breaking wave catches you on the beam, and inverts you, you will be very stable upside down. The 235 was clearly _not_ designed for blue water cruising. There are a few 24 footers with a blue water design - but not many. You find a lot more in the 27 to 30 foot range. Once you get a good design, then you have to look at how much effort and cost it will take to bring the boat up to snuff, including (but not limited to): - Crew - Safety systems - Nav, comm, and sensors - Electric system - Storage - Strength of hull and rig - Ground tackle - Water tight capability of Hull - Comfort/accommodations - Sails and heavy weather gear Going less than prepared is possible but not good seamanship - or advisable/ You have a great dream! Take the time to learn how to achieve it, then go for it! David Lady Lillie
A capsize ratio of 2.47 means once a 9 foot breaking wave catches you on the beam, and inverts you, you will be very stable upside down. The 235 was clearly _not_ designed for blue water cruising. There are a few 24 footers with a blue water design - but not many. You find a lot more in the 27 to 30 foot range. Once you get a good design, then you have to look at how much effort and cost it will take to bring the boat up to snuff, including (but not limited to): - Crew - Safety systems - Nav, comm, and sensors - Electric system - Storage - Strength of hull and rig - Ground tackle - Water tight capability of Hull - Comfort/accommodations - Sails and heavy weather gear Going less than prepared is possible but not good seamanship - or advisable/ You have a great dream! Take the time to learn how to achieve it, then go for it! David Lady Lillie
David is right. Here is a 20' footer that will
work good for you. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1675897&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=7544&url=
work good for you. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1675897&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=7544&url=
You just like starting discussions, right?
You can bet you'll get more opinions than answers with a post like this. That's a good thing; it'll give you something to think about. I've crossed oceans in 400+ foot Navy ships and questioned, why am I out here? Preparation and seamanship are the best answers for a safe passage. Don't sail when you're ready; sail when you're sea worthy. If you wait until you're ready you'll likely never leave port. Judgment, common sense, equipment, and skill won't trump Mother Nature... but they sure do help. Have fun, learn everything you can and see where it gets you. You can accomplish anything you actually set your mind to doing with desire and the proper motivation. Big boat? Small boat? Whatever, you'll still be in the islands and heading south with more skill and better judgment everyday.
You can bet you'll get more opinions than answers with a post like this. That's a good thing; it'll give you something to think about. I've crossed oceans in 400+ foot Navy ships and questioned, why am I out here? Preparation and seamanship are the best answers for a safe passage. Don't sail when you're ready; sail when you're sea worthy. If you wait until you're ready you'll likely never leave port. Judgment, common sense, equipment, and skill won't trump Mother Nature... but they sure do help. Have fun, learn everything you can and see where it gets you. You can accomplish anything you actually set your mind to doing with desire and the proper motivation. Big boat? Small boat? Whatever, you'll still be in the islands and heading south with more skill and better judgment everyday.
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