Bending t-track?

[Sefuller]

I would like to add adjustable midship cleats to my boat, and since Harken is in my backyard I thought it would be a simple matter to purchase their track and have them bend it. Unfortunately, I was told they don't bend t-track, only traveler track. I also discovered the Schaefer 70-75 adjustable cleat/chock is not compatible with the Harken 32mm track, which leaves me with the option to purchase 1 1/4" Schaefer track, and bend it myself. The nice lady at Schaefer told me I can just bolt it and bend it as I go, which seems optimistic at best. Has anyone done this successfully or have another method they are willing to share? The track will be replacing a teak cap on a narrow fiberglass toerail (O'day 34) , so the bend has to be pretty close to perfect or it will be very apparent where it doesn't match the toe rail radius.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[caguy]

If you are only using it for a midship cleat why not just mount a cleat without the T-track? T-track cleats are very expensive.

 

[Sefuller]

My boarding gates are midships and I would prefer the ability to move the cleat out of the way while boarding. I may find other uses for a track as well.

 

[Paul8807]

You could try mounting the track on piece of 2x4 first to see if it will bend. Will also let you see if the cleat will still slide on the track after it is bent.

 

[DougM]

There is enough lateral play in the track that it can be bent at a slight radius. Normally starting at one end and finessing it one bolt hole location at a time, being careful not to twist or kink the track seems to work quite well.

 

[jimg]

I put about 10-12 feet (don't remember exactly) of genoa track on a prior boat by doing just that. Start at one end and push it into position hole by hole. The amount of each individual bend is very small, but the overall result will fit the curve of the hull.

 

[John Nantz]

Combination of Paul's and Doug's comments?

Because teak is so expensive, and it would be a lot of work to repair or replace if it cracked, what about going Paul's route with the 2x (depending on the radius, maybe 2x6 or 2x8?) first to get some bend in the rail. Mark the gunnel on the board to get the bend curve you want.

Doug and the manufacturer is correct in that you can "probably" just finesse it along, but boy, if you ever ruined that teak .... that stuff is EXPENSIVE!

Also, by "test driving" the bend first you'd know if the bend is going to work out okay. Even put the cleat on there too.

Another thought: Not knowing what the track location looks like, hopefully where the T-track will be is really robust. With a single cleat the 34-footer can put one heck of a load on it and it'd be a shame if the teak got cracked or damaged.

 

[slaume]

Re: Combination of Paul's and Doug's comments?

My boat had very short jib tracks. I ran new stuff from the stern all the way to my midship cleat. It is about 10 to 12 ft and it was very easy to get it to conform to the radius of the toe rail. Just start at one end and keep pulling it into place and drill another bolt hole. I used 1" track but I can't imagine that wider track would be much harder.

The most difficult part was caulking all the bolt holes. It was a few years ago but I believe I pulled the whole thing off to get things caulked properly and then put all the bolts back in their holes and tightened them up.

There never seemed to be much pressure involved in getting it to bend and I certainly didn't feel like the teak toe rail was in any danger, Steve.

 

[Steve Dion]

Have you contacted Garhauer? They are great at doing some of these simple things at a reasonable price.

 

[Sefuller]

Thanks for all the replies -

Just to clarify, I am removing the teak cap from the toe rail in the section where I intend to put the track, so no worries about damaging the teak!

 

[Joe]

It's basic aluminum "T" track that can easily be formed to fit a toe rail's very wide radius. Not sure why you would contest a statement from the manufacturer. Harken's track is proprietary, not a good choice for something like a toe rail where you may have multiple applications.. such as your mid ship cleat.

The standard T track configuration will work with most manufacturers hardware, except Harken, of course. All of Garhauer's stuff will fit it... Ronstan, Lewmar, Antel, etc..... I think adding a genoa track is a fantastic upgrade... you can put all kinds of gear on it. On my genoa track I have my Garhauer EZ glide jib car and a number of sliders, some with stand up blocks, others without, for spinnaker sheets, tack lines, foreguys, twings, preventers..... you name it.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Sef,

I used to run my fairlead on a T-track on the toerail.
I couldn't get a optimal sail shape & after looking at T-track placements on newer boats, decided to add a track inboard that would allow for better sail shape & follow the curvature of my cabin.

This turned out to be a piece of cake. As long as the curve is not too pronounced, it can be done. You'll be surprised how easy it is to do.

Just find your starting point & drill your first hole & bolt it down. Then work your way forward to the next hole location while using your other hand to flex the track. Mark the second hole, relax the track which will allow you to drill. Bolt that down & move to the next hole.

My cars slide easily with no binding. Here is a pic that will give you an idea of my curve.

CR

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Sef,

I should've also mentioned that when drilling & thru bolting, this is for a dry fit only. After all the holes have been drilled, pull it up and caulk it good. I ran a bead the whole length. I also used good oversize washers below for added support. I used Dow Corning 795 caulk.

When my car was on the toerail track, my leach was too flat when close hauled, I run a 155. I would de-power starting @ 45°. Now with the inboard track, I have good speed @ 40° & can pinch to 35° before I start to lose speed, but still I'm moving at a good clip. This was one of the best ideas I had in reguard to optimizing my sail angle & speed.

CR

 

[jibes138]

That toe rail is pretty narrow and I'd like to see how you can through bolt it that close to the hull/deck joint. I'd like to add a mid ship cleat also but am not sure if the toe rail is the right place for it. If it works out OK please post pictures. I think the teak toe rail caps are just screwed down with short wood screws.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Jib,

Thru bolting was not a problem for me below. The pic I attached shows it close to the coach house, but that's on the outside. Add the thickness of the cabin side, add to this the lower interior liner & I had plenty of space below for the bolts. I don't have any pics though. Plus anytime your near a bending point the material is stronger because of this.

I don't know if you have a track on your toerail or not to mount a midship cleat. I changed the thru bolts out in the mid-area for a length of about six feet & added alum. backing plates below. This was a tight area but doable for me. I don't know the type of toerail or, how your top deck is attached to your hull.

CR

 

[finding41]

I'd be using butyl tape instead of calking. Especially when here is always a sideways load.
Less mess than calk and will probably out live the boat when done properly.
I really don't like cabin top leaks.

 

[jibes138]

CatnRon,
I was referring to the original poster. The O'Day 34 and 35 are identical in this regard and I am not sure the toe rail is wide enough to accept a t-track and be able to bolt it through with adequate backing plates. If it can be done I'd be interested in doing this to my own boat. The teak strips on top of the toe rail are pretty narrow, on the D&R website they are listed as 1 inch wide at the base. I am sure they are only screwed down with wood or sheet metal screws. For a cleat the interior backing plate and screw sizes will need to be substantial to handle the loads that could be applied.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Jibes,

That's why I mentioned I was not familiar with your boat. If having a teak toerail, yea I agree, it's probably mounted with wood screws & has no thru-bolting/structural integrity. I'm a bit surprised the designers didn't allow for a midship cleat. Not all marine architects/engineers are created equal man, just come look at my boat.

However, I have seen boats with midship cleats mounted thru-deck just inside the toerail on a raised base to allow the line to clear the toerail when tied up. Maybe this might be an option for you. It will impede your traversing the deck a little bit, but you will get used to it quickly.

CR

 

[jibes138]

The toe rail is not all teak, it is a raised fiberglass section a couple inches high. There is a thin strip of teak on top of that I guess for decoration. I agree adding a mid ship cleat should go inside this toe rail to provide enough structural integrity to the cleat. Picture using a spring line on a mid ship cleat with a 11,500 pound boat going say a mile an hour and coming to a stop with all the force on the mid ship cleat. Maybe replacing those teak strips with stainless strips to reduce chafe on lines will work and be less costly than teak?

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Jibs,

You're on to some good ideas man. About those SS strips for anti-chafing, you can have polished strips made in say a "U" configuration maybe a foot or two long. I also believe the marine industry make these.

CR