Bend Over Florida

[Sanders]

federal port rules and some good practices

At Port Canaveral Florida, just north of where I sit, they have a requirement that all boats leave for open water or be hauled onto the hard and secured down when a hurricane is coming. Arrangements have to be made ahead of time, and the marinas have the stands and space. First time I heard of this it seemed like overkill. In the wake of two hurricanes passing close by, seems like a reasonable precaution. Damage in that area was minimal.The requirement, I was told, stems from the fact it is a port that includes Navy and large commercial traffic as well as small boats all close together. Then in the backyard canal across the street I have two neighbors who tried different approaches. One left his 42 ft ketch tied securely to the dock with extra bumpers (and all sails still attached). *yks The other moved his 30-ft Irwin away from the seawalls, stripped the canvas, tied it across the canal to pilings, and made sure he had plenty of room to rock and roll.The irwin made it through without a scratch. ;D The ketch now has additional "ports," opened up by pilings, and large black dents up and down the hullMeanwhile, I sit here and worry if my boat (in San Francisco Bay) is getting too wet in the rain! I think I'll relax.Oh yes, I think Kevin is right. Not everyone has time to take the steps needed. I would if I could, but... As an evacuee, I promise I was more concerned about family's safety and probably would have not worried as much about boat. It is, after all, a toy that can be replaced.CheersSanders

 

[Kevin B]

Observations from a recent Florida visitor

I just got back home after spending 6 weeks vacationing in the Tampa Bay area. When you travel this area you become aware of how many thousands of boats there are in mile after mile of canals, rivers, bays, marinas etc. The tought crosses your mind of how would you ever get this many boats out of the water or far up a river in advance of a hurricane. Some Canadian friends of ours (first time experiencing a hurricane) who have a home in Palm Harbor brought home the point some posts have made about the traffic congestion that occurs. They are RVers not boaters and wanted to get their 37 foot 5th wheel and new towing pick-up out of harms way. They evacuated 24 hours before the official call and told of sitting on northbound Interstate 75 doing 10 mph in bumper to bumper traffic. I also talked with several mobile home owners who have had their home insurance cancelled even though they didn't suffer damage or make claims. The companies just want out of the business. If FLA has another summer of hurricanes I can see insurance companies wanting to get out of the boat insurance business. Why try to cover such a vast number of boats that can't easily be protected. I did see things that looked poorly thought out for a hurricane zone. For example boats being stored in huge 5 level boat sheds which are enclosed on 3 sides and the roof. These are used because there isn't enough dock space or land space to store the boats at the marina. When you want to go boating a forklift retrieves your boat and launches it. While looking well built you have to wonder if these long, narrow and top heavy looking structures can withstand 160 mph winds. It makes you wonder if there are just too many boats in Florida? But I guess in a capitalistic society things like insurance rates and coverage will help determine this, not government.Kevin B.(back in Toronto freezing my a-- off and hating it)

 

[Phil Herring]

Sorry to open this wound again...

I though this both interesting and relevant.We just got a call from a customer this morning who faced the storms in Forida and did everything right. He stripped his boat of everything he could carry away: sails, canvas, everything but the mast.Found the best spot he could determine and tied the boat down with every line he could find. Took all the gear removed from the boat back home and stored it in his basement.As it turned out, the boat was untouched but his entire block was demolished... including his home and basement... including all the gear he removed from the boat.

 

[Bill Bell]

Hurricane Prep

I watched this string the other day and did not respond.I live in Punta Gorda and took a direct hit on the house and boat. The boat was prepaired well. It didn't hit a piling or anything in the slip. The Irvin 52 in the next slip lost his mast onto my mast and boat. He was un-insurred. I am going to pick my boat up tomorrow after 5 months in the shop. The insurance had to pay about $25K for the boat which was well prepaired. My rates raised $30 after the storm. They will probably skyrocket next year.On the subject of de-mastings. Seven boats in the marina lost their masts. About 5 were Hunters and all of those had backstays.Fair sailing to allBill Bell

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Sorry for not responding yesterday Rick,

I went sailing. Beautiful all week and today too. It's suppose to stay this way through to the end of the month. That's bad news for Kalifornia. When it's nice here, well, you get ugly stuff.Rick, as far as marbles go, I have a permanent dent in my thumbnail.

 

[Tom S]

Geez Kevin Dufresne that is NOT what we are saying

At least most of us.What we are saying is that YOU have to "Pay to Play" . In other words if YOU are living down there (in Paradise compared to the cold up here) and you all are getting hit by hurricanes left and right then WHY SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE PAY HIGHER RATES.THAT is what this whole thread is about - NOT whether you did the right thing for you, your home or your family. We are NOT telling you what your priorities should be.BUT (please answer this very direct question) Why should the person all day preparing his boat properly and do a good job of it pay for the insurance premium increase to those people that didn't have the time or priority to do it?So I'll say it out loud -- sure you and many others had lots to do and set your priorities correctly for you. But why should everyone have to pay for that?????

 

[Kevin]

Gez, Tom S.

Did you read this part? "I am not addressing the insurance issue, I am talking about the issue as to why some people may not have "prepared properly" according to some who have no idea what it is like to have a hurricane suddenly bearing down on you."With a thread that had over 40 replies, the topic covered several issues. You can choose to address the ones you like, and I can do the same. I have seen no links to any proof that the raise in insurance rates was directly due to the hurricanes. That would seem like a possibility, but I have seen no evidence of that in this thread. How much did the insurance rates in Florida rise in comparison to the rates in other areas? Have you done, or do you know of any analysis on the effect that the hurricanes in Florida had on the rate structure to insure sailboats in different parts of the country? I don't know if the raise in rates somewhere else in the country was as a direct result of the hurricanes so I chose not to address that issue, but I did see people who do not live in areas subject to hurricanes telling people who do what they should do. I have lived in La. for about 48 of my 52 years, and have had a lot of experience dealing with hurricanes, including one in 1965 which was a direct hit. That is something that you never forget. Here is a clue for you. If that last hurricane had remained on its track and had hit New Orleans the way that it was headed, the estimates were that there would have been about 30,000 people killed in New Orleans. They estimate that there are about 100,000 people who do not have cars and there would have been no way for many of them to leave, even if they wanted to. New Orleans is 15-20 feet below sea level, and a storm surge of over 20 feet would have put water over the roofs of many homes. There was a near state of panic for people to get out of the city, and I have news for you, I am not going to sit here and blame anyone for worrying about his family instead of his boat, so that he can keep the insurance rates down for some guy in Indiana. That was my point.Here, check this out,

 

[Rick Webb]

Not All Bad

If these storms motivate some to go back up north where they came from or deter others from heading this way then there was some good that came from them.I have not seen anyone mention how the rates have gone up on their home insurance because of the earthquakes, fires, and mudslides in California like mine did a couple of years ago and sounds like will again. Why didn't they properly prepare? Those disaster seem to hit more often than big storms do. The insurance companies will spread their losses across all of their customers where ever they live.

 

[Darrel]

Phil and others

Your post was interesting in that it proved the point that location, location is everything.The National Hurricane Center has a watch, warning alert system along with computer models that when steering current,high pressure, low pressure information is entered it trys to predict the landfall loction. Many times this prediction can include the entire east coast of Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and so on.A hurricane watch is issued when winds are over 74 mph and pose a possible threat within 36 hours. A hurricane warning is issued when hurricane conditions are expected in 24 hours.If you recall last fall, almost the entire SE Coast of Florida (almost 400 miles of coast) was placed under a hurricane watch 12 hours before the warning was declaired. The Warning was issued early Friday morning, I mean the wee hours of Friday morning. By Friday night everyone had hunkered down in anticipation of the storm landfall sometime early Saturday morning, somewhere along that 400 miles of coastline. As Frances churned over the outer Abaco island chain they extended the warning area all the way up to Jacksonville. If you recall, the outer bands of the storm extended from the northern boarder to the southern tip of Florida (almost 600 miles). We stayed hunkered down all through the day and deep into the night wondering were and when. It was on Sunday before the storm made landfall between Ft. Pierce and Stuart, Florida. For the better part of 3 days we were locked up in our homes under orders to stay off the streets.Hurricane Charley was a totally different situation. It was predicted to make landfall around Tampa, but suddenly and unexpectedly turned and went right up Port Charlotte on the west coast, almost 100 miles shy of its predicted landfall.So, what all this means is that location, location means a lot. Phil your customer prepared his boat and located it as best he could. The boat was spared but his home took the hit. It just as easily could have been the other way around. Hurricanes aren't quite as predictable as people would think.Phil, another interesting point. You said this guy put all his boat gear in his basement. The water tables in Florida do not allow us to have basements. We dig holes in the ground, fill them with water to keep them from floating out of the ground, we call them swimming pools.Not sure where this chap lives in order to have a basement.Bottom line of all this for me is that almost everyone I know down here did all they could to protect life, property and boats. We also have the highest insurance rates for homes, boats, and cars in the country, its just part of life.To all of those that are experiencing increases in your insurance rates I would suggest that you have a conversation with your agent and shop for other options. You may find that national carriers are more likely to spread out their increases over a broader range than local regional insurance companies.

 

[Tom S]

Kevin -- I kept ON-TOPIC with the original POST

It was a discussion of "insurance rates post the hurricane season" (Go back and read original post from J.B Dyer)And I cannot believe you ~actually~ had the gaul to write

" I have seen no links to any proof that the raise in insurance rates was directly due to the hurricanes. " [2nd QUOTE] "How much did the insurance rates in Florida rise in comparison to the rates in other areas?"*pop HUH !?! WHAT ?WHERE have you BEEN? Everybody has been talking about this who owns a boat & in the industry for a while. To ACTUALLY ask to see a link is like asking to see if the sky is blue. Its not hard to see, but if you want I will point you to the window so you can take a look outside "Update on insurance changes"http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQK/is_1_10/ai_n8706202"Boatyard and marina owners preparing to renew their insurance coverage should brace themselves they're about to get hammered."http://www.boatflorida.org/custom_pages/site_page_2692/“For New England boaters cruising to Florida, the insurance carriers require that they be out of Florida during hurricane season,” explains Paul Souza of Alliance Insurance in Dartmouth, Massachusetts. “The risk is just too great.”http://www.offshoremag.net/resources/ins-fins/"BOAT/US announced rate increases of between 50 - 60% in boat insurance this year for some boaters because of losses caused by hurricane damage -- Hurricane prone areas are considered to be all of Florida and the Atlantic coast. While the Florida residents will suffer the greatest increases in rates and decreases in coverage, everyone should expect increases of 3 - 5 %. "http://www.carverownersclub.com/clubNews/200502.htmHOW MUCH MORE INFORMATION DO YOU NEED??Listen -- I am not telling you how to live or how to prepare a boat for a Hurricane but the FACT (UNDENIABLE FACT) is that some boats were ill prepared to weather a bad storm let alone a hurricane and many of those boats caused the insurance for EVERYONE down there to increase and most likely at a higher rate then if everyone took all the precuations necessary.By all means take care of your family and community first, but I rates DO go up and some pay for increases unfairly compared to others.I guess such is life.

 

[DaveM10278]

Bad News, start planning now

My two cents:Sorry guys it’s not looking good. Unfortunately we will get to see how accurate the weathermen are going to be

 

[Rick Webb]

Good News

Just got my new policy and no increase. Guess it did not go up everywhere on everyone.