Bend Over Florida

[Darren Mayes]

When dock is gone...

it pretty much doens't matter how well you prep'd your boat. Whitney's is, IMHO one of the best Marinas in the area. Unfortunately, fo rboth storms we were on the "business side" of the winds for both of the hurricanes.Almost all docks on the west side of the St. Johns were severly damaged / destroyed by Frances I guess it was... and we were nowhere near groudn zero.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

It happened on the Chesapeake Bay..

There are good points on both side of this issue. The result should be improved planning by everyone, and if you don't, you aren't covered.Isabel caught many people on the Chesapeake off guard and the damage proved it. Folks left powerboats on lifts, only to be floated off and holed by the pilings later; boats left at docks unprepared where swamped by loose bilge hoses, old lines, etc. No one could have predicted what happened, but neither could they predict the landfall in the '04 hurricanes.I, and others, at my marina rode it out on our boats, not always the smart route, but it worked for us. I'm not comparing the winds in Isabel to what Florida experienced. But, I am saying that some of us really prepared, others did nothing. There were many, many boats on the bay and rivers damaged/ruined by the storm, some of them due in part to no/poor preparation. OTOH, many boats that were hauled before the storm were damanged when the marina yards flooded. So whadda ya do?But, the number and types of boats that I saw left behind in some of the areas in Florida seemed unbelievable. Large powerboats should be required to have a plan to get their boat out and run from the storm. That would leave room for other, slower boats, in the rivers, etc. And, who on earth would leave their boat on a lift down there in the face of a hurricane? But some did.The insurance companies could and should get together and formulate an overall plan, and make the insurance coverage fit that plan. We don't like to be told what to do, but face it, some of us do nothing and the rest have to pay. Something like power boats >25' hit the road, <25 hit the land, sailboats find a hole, etc. And coordinate it all with the gov'ts for bridge closings, etc. Governments shouldn't control the situation (e.g., pending FL legislation that boatowners pay for damage to marina docks), but the markets should control it via insurance plans with requirements that get boats and people of out harms way. If you don't comply, you don't get paid. Simple as that.I do think that some owners down there said leave it for the insurance company - whether by necessity or laziness. And the rest of us are paying for it. But, that's the nature of insurance. If I accidentially burn my boat to the waterline, we will all share that too.So, it seems that the moral of the story is that we all pay for the lack of preparation by others. But those of us that prepare count on insurance if things don't go as planned.Note: my rate jumped 50% in Jan. But it was pretty low to begin with, so I've taken it in stride.

 

[Tom S]

Daryll, Ok I buy that

One question though - why did I see so many sailboats that had their roller furling jibs and other canvas still on their boats?I saw picture after picture of devastation and moderate devastation and I saw (guesstimating here) about 1 out of every 5 boats with ripped, torn & shredded sails and canvas still their boats.Now we all know that when you are right near the epicenter of a decent hurricane that there is little one could do to prevent the damage - sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.But I think the fools (or lazy bums) that don't take all precautions to safeguard their boat and take down all canvas and double up on mooring and lines, etc should be financially penalized. I think all the insurance companies and marina's should take pictures of all the boats that didn't take the correct precautions and send a 25%-50% insurance premium increase to those people - instead of nailing everyone down there. I know its not fun to do and a pain in the rear, but I even took off as much windage as possible on my boat on the off chance a hurricane (last year) was going to come up through the NE. I'll tell ya, if a boat broke their mooring or lines because their jib started to unfurl and hit my boat I would be plenty angry at that boat owner !! ;{To me its akin to someone driving around during a blizzard with bald tires and slides into me . Grrrr ;{ BE PREPARED even if it IS a hassle !ok. Off *box Soapbox LOL

 

[Phil Herring]

I think what Darrel is saying...

...is that some of these folks were more concerned about their families and homes than their boats. Makes sense that if you owned a 50' powerboat and a $2 million beachfront home and had 5 kids you'd probably spend your time prepping your home... or getting out of town. Six bedrooms = a lot of windows to board up.

 

[Guest]

going postal

With all this talk about the insurance co. jacking up your rates why don't we just tell them to go and shove it. Yes, they should make a profit but not all in one year, my rates went up 50% and I had no reported damage to my boat. Although my last one was not so lucky. The SOB who had his boat next to mine never once went down to check on his boat he sent his half witted son who should nevger be in a row boatby himself,do a look about, he should have replaced his lines or even stayed on his daddy's boat but nooooooo they did nothing leaving the old and worn out dock lines on, the marina and a few other boats were damanged. The only good thing that came out of it was when all was said and done his boat was resting on the bottom. To bad no one was on her when she went down. I know his insurance co.sent him a check for his "lost", but what about the marina and the other boats, should they go to their insurance co. to cover the lost because of this SOB. Acording to his co. "it was a act of God". Give me a break, not taking care of your boat is not a AOG it's just plain dumb and should be criminal. Remove your sails, replace your dock lines and be accountable for your actions and those of your boat even you were not on her at the time.

 

[Kevin]

Yep, JB you got it,

Growing up in Louisiana, and having been here for over 50 years, I have had to prepare for my share of hurricanes over the years. You are right, there is never enough time to do everything that is needed. Some people from other parts of the country who have never had the experience (when I was about 12 we had a direct hit from Betsy, and once you have been through that, your concept of reality changes) and, quite honestly, they way that those things can turn can leave you with just a few hours to do everything that you need to do for your home and your family. Unfortunately, your boat comes last, as some of these people don't seem to understand, it is on the water, maybe over an hour from where you live and the people who live there are all evacuating, and to go there would just get you into a traffic jam that you would never get out of."Walk a mile in my shoes." those of you who live in Nebraska and try to tell us how to treat our boats with a hurricane bearing down.

 

[Tom S]

Kevin, Fine

But if you don't have time to properly take care of your boat and there is a problem because of it then I propose that YOUR insurance rates are the ones that go up 100% and not the people that actually do prepare properly.Fair is FairWhy should everyones rates down there go up equally? One could argue that 20-30% value could be reduced due to better preparation by some. Why should everyone pay that extra 20-30% of the 50-75% increase down there?

 

[Kevin]

JB, I am not addressing

the insurance issue, I am talking about the issue as to why some people may not have "prepared properly" according to some who have no idea what it is like to have a hurricane suddenly bearing down on you. Believe it or not, many people who have not been through the experience think that you have a lot of time because the hurricane moves slowly, but, the fact of the matter is that when a hurricane is about 100 miles offshore, it can go anywhere and you cannot wait until the last minute, because if you do, you will be in it. Last year, a hurricane was bearing down on the New Orleans area, and people waited until about 12 hours before it should hit to leave the New Orleans area. It is about 80 miles between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, and it took about 4-6 hours to get from one to another. There was nowhere to stay in BR, so you had to keep going and then going down the interstate to the next decent sized town, about 45 miles away, took another 4-6 hours. There was not an hotel room to be had all the way past Houston, which was another 5 hours in regular time, and totally unreachable then. Many, many people spent a day or more in their cars in traffic, just moving along until the hurricane turned at the last moment and did not hit New Orleans, and then just turned around and took another day to get back. Many people spent 2 days or more in their cars in traffic. That is what I am telling you that people from other places in the country do not know, understand, or appreciate.

 

[Rick Webb]

If Your Only Bitch is Your Premium

Your way ahead of many folks down here. I have little sympathy for those who did not prepare and none for those who are complaining about a couple of hundred bucks.

 

[J.B. Dyer]

Kevin

Kevin!You talking to me? All I did was start this mess, I believe you may have me confused with one of the other contributors.No offense taken, but I was surprised to read someone addressing me when I hadn't said anything. (Else)

 

[Kevin Dufresne]

Sorry, JB, yes I

did mix you up with someone else. I understand that people need to take care of their boats as best they can, but I also know that the people living in areas where they have not had to deal with hurricanes have no concept what it is like. People keep their boats out by the coast, but may live quite a distance away, even a couple of hours (I am over an hour). When the hurricane is coming the people who live there are evacuating, and if you went there it could take you forever to even get back out in many cases. There are not marinas all upriver or in other areas for everyone to move their boats to, and people think that these hurricanes are slow moving and that you have a lot of time to prepare, and you do have some time a couple of days out when you know that there is one out there, but in the end, we all know that if you take a direct hit there is not really any amount of preparation that will save you. I agree with the other poster who explained that you must first take care of your family, your business and your home, and then if you have time left after that, you can take care of your boat. Now, some others may have a different take and may take care of their boats first and not worry about their families or homes or businesses until their boats are taken care of. We all get to set our own priorities. Thanks.

 

[Scott]

okay, I'll add some gas to this fire

I am a sailor who lives on the water, I own several sailboats and keep one large one in the water. I am also a paramedic with a local fire department. With that being said some of those boats you saw were owned by people who were called to work before we had the chance to take care of our own stuff. It kinda sucks to be taking care of the rest of the world before your own stuff but that is how it goes sometimes. My house was severely damaged by Charley, my big boat sustained minor damage only buy great luck and my two small boats (no insurance on the small boats) are gone, I mean GONE, there is no sign of either one of them in, on or around the canal. Please keep in mind that some people are just useless when it comes to hurricane preparations (snow birds)and others are busy working for the public such as police, paramedics, firefighters, road and bridge workers, water and sewer workers (you want to flush don't you?) and the city/county leaders. Lets not be too judgemental of every boat you saw, each probably has a story that CNN just didn't report.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

Everyone keeps offering explanations...

which are perfectly reasonable. Not to throw fuel on the fire here, but the point that folks seem to miss is that if you have the toys, you have to have a plan to deal with them. If you don't follow the plan, can't or simply don't bother to, then you should pay the price - higher premiums or reduced benefit from a loss. Hurricanes from FL to NC are not unexpected occurrances. In fact, they occur with regularity. If you have a multi-million dollar house on the beach, a slew of kids, invalid parents, a business, or a demanding job, figure out how you're going to deal with all of them in advance, do it, or suffer the consequences. Hearing all of these explanations/excuses just makes me wonder all the more - why didn't people have a plan?And yes, I've weathered several hurricanes both north and south. And yes, I once left a big powerboat behind at a beach marina in the direct path of one and said to myself "that's what insurance is for"! That was a long time ago and I don't plan to be caught in that situation again.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks Don,

it never occurred to any of us to come up with such a comprehensive plan. We will all get to work on that right away.

 

[scott]

how nice, Don's perfect.....

too bad the rest of us poor working slobs can't be like you. By the way, my "million dollar home" on the water is a home that my family and I have owned for three generations. My big sailboat is a 23' boat I bought sunken in Lemon bay for $150 and rebuilt from the keel up, my family and I have been living in S. florida on the water long before it was cool. My toys are squat compared to yours but they are just as important to me. I can safely say we'd rather be left alone with all the hurricanes and the damage they do than deal with snow birds and transplants. We all do have a plan but sometimes nature shows us her plans are better. We saw sustained winds over 160 mph with gusts over 180, when you actually sit in the eye of a storm like that than you MIGHT understand that even the best of plans don't always work.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Well, here we go, again.

Now for some good news. Up here at 48 degrees north, (Puget Sound) the sun has been shining for a week. Tonights weather report predicted ten more days of sunshine and it's warming up! Not like south Florida, but the trees are blooming. The Alder trees started having sex (pollinating) a couple days ago.I just fired up the hotrod and we have been cruising the strip. (It's NEVER driven in the rain) With daytime highs in the 50s, it's a little chilly for sailing though. I hear the weather in California might not be too appealing. Is that true? How's that for changing the subject?!

 

[Kevin Dufresne]

Scott, I know exactly

what you are saying. The reason I keep posting to this thread is because of all of those "experts" from all around the USA that keep telling us how we should "plan" for a hurricane. Hey "expert planners", please tell me how to prepare for a 25'+ storm surge, when our boats will have to rise 25' or more, or even if we take them somewhere else they will still have a 10' to 15' rise. Tell us how to tie our lines for that, with a 150 mph wind. Many people have tried to bring their boats out a ways and anchor them, hoping that they could ride it out. Guess what, 30' waves and 150+ mph winds caused the anchor to slip or broke the line or the cleat. It is still very clear that some of you do not have a single clue about what a hurrican is all about, regardless of what you say about your previous experience. Here is my last statement on the subject. Those people who had boats there had to make their own decisions, and I am not going to sit here and criticize them or judge them because I do not know what they had to deal with.  If you sit there in your own little world and decide that you have that right, then you should not mind that I come up to where you live and criticize you as to how you keep up your lawn or your cars or your home. Hey, I'll bet that you should cut your grass more often and fertilize it so that it is as green as the guy next door. You should have a complete plan as to how your grass is cut and trees trimmed and cars washed, and if you don't then I will come there and criticize you for your lack of "proper planning".

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Kevin, if you came here, you'd be too late.

The bureaucrats have beat you to it. They say our fertilizer is killing Puget Sound. (Hood Canal) And they add, so are our toilets. Drain fields are very bad, they say.

 

[scott]

thanx kevin

sounds like you have acutally walked the walk instead of just reading about it.

 

[Rick D]

Hey, Fred, Thanks A Lot...

..your weather has gone down here. It's 0400 and I'm up on the laptop because it's hailing and the boat sounds like someone spilled a sack of marbles on the boat. I'm just waiting for a weather window. Not to go sailing, but rather to drive home. Three of my four routes are closed. OTOH, since many of you may not know what 'marbles' are, this may not have made any sense at all to you. I'll bet Fred remembers.Rick D.