I have a question about sealing fixtures attached to the top deck. I was wondering, has used butyl rubber as a bedding compound? I recently did some repairs on my RV and this was the stuff I used whenever I was attaching anything on the outside. It's really easy to work with, easy to clean up, and seals very well. The old stuff I took off was still tacky after 20+ years out in the sun. I'm just wondering how butyl rubber will hold up in a marine environment. BTW - I'm a midwesterner so it's pretty much fresh water sailing for me (if that matters).
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4200
I use 4200. It is a bear to clean up, but tacky after 20 years shows how affective it is. I think using a sealant especially for boats is important as different materials expand at differnet rates and adhesion to different materials is the key. You don't want it to rain inside!
I use 4200. It is a bear to clean up, but tacky after 20 years shows how affective it is. I think using a sealant especially for boats is important as different materials expand at differnet rates and adhesion to different materials is the key. You don't want it to rain inside!
5200 Fears...revisited!
Ric, Ric, Ric...There are a lotta reallllllly anal fragile guys 'round these parts and although boatyards, 'old men of the sea', and many experienced experts will indeed use 5200 (4200 is a quicker drying formula) for many projects, as I do too, some of these folks will tell you it is a devil's glue brew! ON deck hardware that you may take off, change a pad-eye etc and do not need any thick, sicky sealant to 'feel' safe. I would use Sikaflex, Lifecaulk or one of these products. Andy, just about any kind of a good caulking will work on the top deck if prepared and done properly. I am vaguely familiar with 'butel rubber' but I would not use it in this application, stick with a well know product, and 5200 or 4200 can indeed be used for this purpose and is the best caulking there is, but it is kinda like tying a 'granny knot' it tends to be PERMANENT! Having said that I commonly used it for my mast partners, and had to unstep the mast twice, it was a bear to get it out, but boating is a series of sacrifices, and I consciously or unconsciously follow the safest path; I DID NOT WANT THAT MAST COMING UNGLUED IN THE STORMS I HAD TO FACE! I feel strongly about that as far as through-hull fittings too. Anybody that is sa fragile as to worry about taking a through-hull apart some ten-twenty years down the road has NEVER FACED a real STORM! I don't mean some little chciken-shit gale that we experience along the coasts as a matter of course...;-) I mean a full on 50 - 60 knot storm for 36 or 48 hours. In that you are going over every little job you did in your mind...like a climber in free-fall, he clearly pictures (with all the time in the world) his last piece of protection, and if he was worried about making it too solid ( so the second belayer can retrieve it more easily) then he is pissed and feeling stupid. This is exactly how a sailor feels when fighting for his life in a full on STORM; I want those through-hull fittings, and everything else that can sink my world, to be as solid and as PERMANENT AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. If you do not plan to ever cross and ocean or can indeed outrun storms, them when you hit that log and catch an edge of a through-hull won't you want all in your favor, given the odds? Of course you do, a rhetorical question. I say vessels are made to be used, lets make em as strong and as safe as we possibly can.
Ric, Ric, Ric...There are a lotta reallllllly anal fragile guys 'round these parts and although boatyards, 'old men of the sea', and many experienced experts will indeed use 5200 (4200 is a quicker drying formula) for many projects, as I do too, some of these folks will tell you it is a devil's glue brew! ON deck hardware that you may take off, change a pad-eye etc and do not need any thick, sicky sealant to 'feel' safe. I would use Sikaflex, Lifecaulk or one of these products. Andy, just about any kind of a good caulking will work on the top deck if prepared and done properly. I am vaguely familiar with 'butel rubber' but I would not use it in this application, stick with a well know product, and 5200 or 4200 can indeed be used for this purpose and is the best caulking there is, but it is kinda like tying a 'granny knot' it tends to be PERMANENT! Having said that I commonly used it for my mast partners, and had to unstep the mast twice, it was a bear to get it out, but boating is a series of sacrifices, and I consciously or unconsciously follow the safest path; I DID NOT WANT THAT MAST COMING UNGLUED IN THE STORMS I HAD TO FACE! I feel strongly about that as far as through-hull fittings too. Anybody that is sa fragile as to worry about taking a through-hull apart some ten-twenty years down the road has NEVER FACED a real STORM! I don't mean some little chciken-shit gale that we experience along the coasts as a matter of course...;-) I mean a full on 50 - 60 knot storm for 36 or 48 hours. In that you are going over every little job you did in your mind...like a climber in free-fall, he clearly pictures (with all the time in the world) his last piece of protection, and if he was worried about making it too solid ( so the second belayer can retrieve it more easily) then he is pissed and feeling stupid. This is exactly how a sailor feels when fighting for his life in a full on STORM; I want those through-hull fittings, and everything else that can sink my world, to be as solid and as PERMANENT AS IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. If you do not plan to ever cross and ocean or can indeed outrun storms, them when you hit that log and catch an edge of a through-hull won't you want all in your favor, given the odds? Of course you do, a rhetorical question. I say vessels are made to be used, lets make em as strong and as safe as we possibly can.
Agree with Cap'n. Ron
about 5200, first there is a product out there that breaks down 5200 and if you have to remove a fitting like a thru hull a Sawzall or a hole saw works well and I'm a believer in do it right once and I figure by the time something I installed has to be replaced I'll be rebuilding the next boat.
about 5200, first there is a product out there that breaks down 5200 and if you have to remove a fitting like a thru hull a Sawzall or a hole saw works well and I'm a believer in do it right once and I figure by the time something I installed has to be replaced I'll be rebuilding the next boat.
Why a semi-permanant bond with fasteners?
Help me understand why you guys think you need a semi-permanant bond when you have a fastener (thru bolt, etc) holding a piece of equipment/hardware in place. Why would I need 5200 on a thru hull when it has a backer and a seacock/ball valve to hold it in place. Why do I need 5200 to mount a winch to a combing when there are 5 1/4-20 bolts with washers and nuts to hold my winch in place. Everybody to their own ideas! But I see no value and a lot of potential damage to using this type of product where is may not belong. I personally prefer the 'Life' products and have not had any problems with it failing.
Help me understand why you guys think you need a semi-permanant bond when you have a fastener (thru bolt, etc) holding a piece of equipment/hardware in place. Why would I need 5200 on a thru hull when it has a backer and a seacock/ball valve to hold it in place. Why do I need 5200 to mount a winch to a combing when there are 5 1/4-20 bolts with washers and nuts to hold my winch in place. Everybody to their own ideas! But I see no value and a lot of potential damage to using this type of product where is may not belong. I personally prefer the 'Life' products and have not had any problems with it failing.
Steve,
I do agree with you but I feel the 5200,4200 products are better sealants the 5200 seems to settle after installation before it cures. I restored a wooden Chris Craft 20 some years ago and all I ever used was the Life stuff and for some reason in the last 5 yrs. I've been using 5200,4200 on my fiberglass ODay , one thing for sure the stuff sticks to every thing! I had to remove a thru hull fitting that PO installed with 5200 and my sawzall helped with that.When I replaced my winch's I used bedding compound
I do agree with you but I feel the 5200,4200 products are better sealants the 5200 seems to settle after installation before it cures. I restored a wooden Chris Craft 20 some years ago and all I ever used was the Life stuff and for some reason in the last 5 yrs. I've been using 5200,4200 on my fiberglass ODay , one thing for sure the stuff sticks to every thing! I had to remove a thru hull fitting that PO installed with 5200 and my sawzall helped with that.When I replaced my winch's I used bedding compound
Cap't Ron didn't explain 5200 vs 4200
exactly correct The 4200 is not a just a quicker drying formula of 5200. There is 5200, 5200 Fast Cure, and 4200 Fast Cure. The difference between regular and fast cure is fast cure with "tack over" in an hour and be completely cured in 24 hours, while the regular takes 24-48 to be "tack over" & 5-8 days to completely cure. The real difference between the 5200 and the 4200 is the tensile strength after cure. They are both pretty tenacious, but the 5200 will probably take the gellcoat with it before it breaks. Below is link to some of the specs
exactly correct The 4200 is not a just a quicker drying formula of 5200. There is 5200, 5200 Fast Cure, and 4200 Fast Cure. The difference between regular and fast cure is fast cure with "tack over" in an hour and be completely cured in 24 hours, while the regular takes 24-48 to be "tack over" & 5-8 days to completely cure. The real difference between the 5200 and the 4200 is the tensile strength after cure. They are both pretty tenacious, but the 5200 will probably take the gellcoat with it before it breaks. Below is link to some of the specs
Sorry Tom....
You're right of course, I didn't read the print on the 4200, and don't really know...Thats what I get for trusting Jon, he told me that, hearsay again, and he does use this stuff all the time, but I have NOT used the 4200 and should not give any advice that I do not know about. Used alotta 5200 though....;-) stuff is great on pancakes...grin.
You're right of course, I didn't read the print on the 4200, and don't really know...Thats what I get for trusting Jon, he told me that, hearsay again, and he does use this stuff all the time, but I have NOT used the 4200 and should not give any advice that I do not know about. Used alotta 5200 though....;-) stuff is great on pancakes...grin.
4200 vs 5200
Both products are great for certain things. I use 5200 for items that will never need to be redone and there are very few of them. For most applications, including installing hardware to the deck, 4200 is a fine product and can be removed with anti-bonding agents.
Both products are great for certain things. I use 5200 for items that will never need to be redone and there are very few of them. For most applications, including installing hardware to the deck, 4200 is a fine product and can be removed with anti-bonding agents.
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