Bedding a cuved T Track, Butyl Tape or 3M 4000?

Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
I am getting ready to finally install my inboard genoa T-tracks. This will be some of the last few bits of deck hardware that need to be installed/bedded.
The question occurred to me as to what type of bedding compound to use in this application because the track curves; so basically one bolt goes in at time and when doing the test fitting I used lumber as a lever to get my fair curve.
I realized that with 3M 4000 this can get messy, plus cleaning up the squeeze out will be a PITA, especially on the inboard side against the cabin trunk.
If I use Bed-It butyl tape, I'll have to set up all the screws first which is somewhat hard to do since only one can really go in at a time. I'm also worried about the threads catching the tape and spinning the compound. This isn't a problem when you are almost all the way turned down, but if I use butyl tape I'll probably have to lay the strip on the deck instead of on the underside of the track.
Any tips on this tricky process? Must be nice to use straight genny track...
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Is heating the track to impart some pre bend a viable technique. I don't know... I'm asking for comments from others.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Is heating the track to impart some pre bend a viable technique. I don't know... I'm asking for comments from others.
I don't think so, heating black anodized aluminum will ruin the color. The sun will do that anyway over several years, but I really don't want to accelerate that.
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,105
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
I am self-debating the same conundrum. So am looking forward to the responses from the forum.

In my case the right next to the cabin top T-track (a completely new install) is straight. I have the Butyl bedding tape. But any eventual leakage drips right on to and will saturate my interior upholstery. So I must have a 100% effective seal.

Regarding caulking products. Over the years I have had excellent success not with the traditional marine "grade" products, but instead using metal roof gutter sealant. I had noticed that the application of roof sealant to the joints of my home's metal gutters was still pliable and still adhered 15 years on. Been using it on my boat ever since. Available at most hardware stores -- and at Home Depot and Lowes.

In respect of the "squeeze out". Press masking tape hard onto the deck right next to the track and squeeze-out will ooze over the tape. Not the deck. Then when the caulk sets, but before it reaches full cure, score the ooze along the track with a razor knife. Then pull up the tape. Easier than wiping up wet caulk.
 
Aug 2, 2005
1,155
Pearson 33-2 & Typhoon 18 Seneca Lake
Hello CloudDiver,
I remember rebidding the genoa track on our Oday 30. It was curved when in place, but straightened out considerably when it was removed. Also, it was thru-bolted with machine screws and was a challenge to remove and reinstall due to galling of the threads of the stainless steal fasteners. I used a bedding compound......whose name and brand I don't remember. It was a messy job that required a serious clean-up. It was also a two-person job to hold the machine screw heads with a large screw driver from above and turn the nuts below deck.

Here are my thoughts on your project although it is not the way I did mine. The track did require a pulling to bend the track back to its curved shape.

Are the fasteners really screws? Will they hold the track under load? If the fasteners are machine screws you might be able to use rods (like welding rod diameter or there abouts) to prebend the track while it is still above the deck. Sticking the rods through the track and through the holes in the deck while keeping the track an inch or a bit more above the deck. That would perhaps allow you to use the butyl tape under the track and then slide the track down the rods to contact the deck. Then add the machine screws by pushing them through the holes and then tighten the nuts from the under side. That would also allow you to put butyl tape around the heads of the screws to seal the track to the screw.

Best Wishes on your project.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,759
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Rardi's tape idea is good. But I am pondering why you ask. I just rebedded my traveler track. I laid butyl tape down underneath it and did NOT do the "Maine Sail treatment" on the holes below since there were NO bolt HEADS there, only the flat track. I did put butyl in the holes above and treated the bottom of the bolt heads ala MS.

You have to look at the track in SECTION (sideways) to figure out how easy this will be for you.

I wouldn't put anything that comes out of a tube on anything on my boat (except for my Beckson ports that require silicone). That's the old sillycone that I spent altogether too much time removing!!!

IMG_20170126_141905.jpg
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
When I say 'screw' I mean bolt, that is actually the correct terminology. The only pointy things that go into wood on my boat are on the interior.

Hello CloudDiver,
I remember rebidding the genoa track on our Oday 30. It was curved when in place, but straightened out considerably when it was removed. Also, it was thru-bolted with machine screws and was a challenge to remove and reinstall due to galling of the threads of the stainless steal fasteners. I used a bedding compound......whose name and brand I don't remember. It was a messy job that required a serious clean-up. It was also a two-person job to hold the machine screw heads with a large screw driver from above and turn the nuts below deck.

Here are my thoughts on your project although it is not the way I did mine. The track did require a pulling to bend the track back to its curved shape.

Are the fasteners really screws? Will they hold the track under load? If the fasteners are machine screws you might be able to use rods (like welding rod diameter or there abouts) to prebend the track while it is still above the deck. Sticking the rods through the track and through the holes in the deck while keeping the track an inch or a bit more above the deck. That would perhaps allow you to use the butyl tape under the track and then slide the track down the rods to contact the deck. Then add the machine screws by pushing them through the holes and then tighten the nuts from the under side. That would also allow you to put butyl tape around the heads of the screws to seal the track to the screw.

Best Wishes on your project.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Stu, I'm asking because the track is curved. If I were installing a straight traveler I would use butyl tape, hands down. I did the 'MainSail' treatment on every deck penetration, which I am assuming you mean over-drill, epoxy fill, re-drill to size, and counter sink.

Rardi's tape idea is good. But I am pondering why you ask. I just rebedded my traveler track. I laid butyl tape down underneath it and did NOT do the "Maine Sail treatment" on the holes below since there were NO bolt HEADS there, only the flat track. I did put butyl in the holes above and treated the bottom of the bolt heads ala MS.

You have to look at the track in SECTION (sideways) to figure out how easy this will be for you.

I wouldn't put anything that comes out of a tube on anything on my boat (except for my Beckson ports that require silicone). That's the old sillycone that I spent altogether too much time removing!!!

View attachment 137631
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
For reference, here is the actual test fit of the inboard genoa track before I painted the decks. FYI, the end cap is an actual stainless 'screw' that is in cured epoxy. The rear end cap is not bedded so the genoa cars can be removed. The curve is very slight, but its enough to require just a bit more than hand pulling due to the lack of effective leverage points.
P.S. I did also check the movement of the car, it does clear the cabin and does not bind anywhere on the curve.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Use butyl. Pre-set the bolts in the track with the donuts underneath. Lay it in from end to end, and bend it as you go. It will not be perfect. Some of the bolts will twist the butyl. I had the same thing on my boat. I had to bend the track a few inches from one end to the other. As much as you bend it horizontally, you can bend it vertically to set the bolts. It will seal fine. Mine has been in place 4 seasons now with no problem. Yes. It was a PITA.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Use butyl. Pre-set the bolts in the track with the donuts underneath. Lay it in from end to end, and bend it as you go. It will not be perfect. Some of the bolts will twist the butyl. I had the same thing on my boat. I had to bend the track a few inches from one end to the other. As much as you bend it horizontally, you can bend it vertically to set the bolts. It will seal fine. Mine has been in place 4 seasons now with no problem. Yes. It was a PITA.
That's what I did on our curved track. It worked great.

Ken
 
May 6, 2010
472
1984 Oday 39 79 Milwaukee
I did something similar to agprice. I put all the bolts through the track holes, put the butyl donuts on them and then started at one end and got all the bolts into the holes but not pushed down all the way. After all the bolts were located in their respective holes I went back to the first end and started pushing the track down to the deck, then with someone holding the bolts on the top, I installed and tightened the nuts on the inside.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The best method for curved tracks is to build a 3/4" plywood jig that matches the curvature of the track. You then use a router bit to cut a rabbit where one side of the T will fit into the plywood rabbit. You then clamp the track to the jig and prep it with Bed-It Tape, or what ever you choose, and drop the whole thing into the holes.

Best to have a buddy to hold the top screws while you tighten the bottom.. The jig should allow the track to sit about 1/16 - 1/8" below the bottom of the plywood as the plywood is only there to hold the curvature... Done far too many curved tracks to ever want to do one again... You can also pre-bend it but this also requires building a jig and template. Oh and it's easiest to trace your template on clear plastic then transfer it to the 3/4" plywood. I also like to mark the hole centers then transfer those to the plywood edges... Test your template against the deck holes before you begin to ensure the correct fit.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
That's a great recommendation, only problem I see is that my track is so close to the cabin walls that the ends of the clamps will likely hit the sides and not allow the nicely curved track to end up matching the holes. I will definitely save this tip
if ever installing a curved track anywhere that such obstacles don't interfere with the clamps.

The best method for curved tracks is to build a 3/4" plywood jig that matches the curvature of the track. You then use a router bit to cut a rabbit where one side of the T will fit into the plywood rabbit. You then clamp the track to the jig and prep it with Bed-It Tape, or what ever you choose, and drop the whole thing into the holes.

Best to have a buddy to hold the top screws while you tighten the bottom.. The jig should allow the track to sit about 1/16 - 1/8" below the bottom of the plywood as the plywood is only there to hold the curvature... Done far too many curved tracks to ever want to do one again... You can also pre-bend it but this also requires building a jig and template. Oh and it's easiest to trace your template on clear plastic then transfer it to the 3/4" plywood. I also like to mark the hole centers then transfer those to the plywood edges... Test your template against the deck holes before you begin to ensure the correct fit.