Beam reach, fastest point of sail?

[kito]

What am I doing wrong? Friday we took our C22 out on a local lake, beautiful day with winds 10-15 mph. We seen our fastest speed yet sailing close hauled into a 15 mph breeze. Had the rails buried and was a blast. When sailing on beam reaches the speed was cut in half with the same wind speed. Just wondering what I am doing wrong. Boom was about centered with vang tight and headsail pulled tight. I am sure the sails are the originals (1984). Is this a sign of the sails being blown out?. Will older sails sail better heading more into the wind than from the beam? I am still a newbie on sloop rigged sailboats and trying to figure this out.

 

[kappykaplan]

You need to learn to read your tell-tails if you have them. If you're on a beam reach, the boom should be around 45 degrees (or more) from centerline. The tell-tails on the main should all be flying off the luff of the sail. Similarly, the jib should be eased until all the tell-tails are flying parallel to the deck.

 

[Ken Secor]

"Centering" the boom seems odd on any "reach."

I urge you to try another sail setting. Neither the jib or main should be "tight" on a reach.

Before even messing with a vang, open the sails up until the leading edge(s) start to lose shape or flutters (luffs"). Then, mess with the vang to see if speed goes up.

The amount of boat tilt - misleads many into thinking sail trim is best when tilting is maxed out. On a "reach," that notion is completely false - as you just found out Friday

 

[kito]

Wow, I guess I was way off on my boom position then. There was another c22 out "following" me most of the day When going upwind I would double my distance from him but on reaches he would gain distance. I should have noticed his sail position. I wasn't centered but maybe 20 degrees off center. I guess I am still used to my Force 5 (lLaser style) sailboat which got it's best performance on a beam reach at about 20 degrees off center.

 

[kappykaplan]

Common error by most of us is not to ease the mainsheet sufficiently when we are off the wind. The 45 degrees I cited is based on my boat. But, your description definitely indicates you were over-trimmed.

 

[Ken Secor]

There's no "guessing" involved with boom positioning. Unless the course you're on will be "fixed" for more than maybe 1/2 hour, the vang can become a PIA to use.

Racing, would minimize my notion some but I have a vang and have yet to even find an opportunity to use it! By the time I get it into place - we're on a different course where it's merely another object that's "in the way."

The leading edges of the sails are the most basic form of trim "feedback" possible.

Really basic sailing suggests once the boat is "aimed" at a compass point or distant landmark by the helmsman, the jib and main are constantly "worked" by the crew to maximize speed. That "work," involves keeping the leading edge of both sails filled with wind, absolutely no luffing, AND not exceeding the point of luffing by more than 10º.

How does one set sails that way? By trial and error. How does one do trial & error? Every few minutes ease out the sheet(s) until the leading edge curvature shows slight signs luff, then pull in the sheet until the sail(s) snap back into a perfect arc w/o any luff. Then, cleat 'em up.

Should the area you're in have very constant wind direct and speed, the frequency of the trial & error sail setting could be an hour or more. If you're racing, do it every nano-second

 

[captcoho]

google for the Polar Diagram

 

[Dan Hill]

Definatly over trimmed sails if you had them in that position on a beam reach. Like others have suggested, purchase some telltales for your sails and study up on their use.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Kito, check out the pic below.
Using a windex or shroud tell tails (Davis, nylon or bits of yarn) as high as you can get them to show you the apparent wind direction, this little graphic can help with where your sails should be set.
With a little practice you'll be leaving that other 22 in your dust!

 

[agprice22]

Also, try going to the sailboatowner's form online (not the app). Look in the forums for Don Guillette. He has a feature spot on sail trim, and he sells a couple products: sail trim user's guide, and sail trim chart. Those will help you understand how to sail fast with the RIGHT amount heel (which is actually very little when you compare it to burying the rails). You will also learn the use of the vang, outhaul, traveler, and cunningham.

Those will help you control draft and twist, so you make full use of the wind.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[kito]

Thanks for the info. Yes, burying the rails is not best for speed but I had no choice. I was at the helm most of the day and the Admiral would get on me for easing up on the heeling. When she took the helm she was getting the rails wet and was on it's way to getting the windows washed before I grabbed the tiller......she got mad . Kind of a good problem to have I guess.

 

[justsomeguy]

Great!

 

[Ray Bowles]

Kito, When sailing a beam each with the wind hitting the boat directly on the side or very close to that the sails should be around a 45 degree angle to the boat. The headsail car should be moved forward so the headsail has a twist. The boom is at a 45 degree angle with the traveller full over and vang loose to start with. This point of sail causes little heal angle. The tell-tails are applied to the headsail at the bottom, middle and top in groups of three. They are placed on both sides of the sail. The first TT is just back from the leading edge, another behind that and the last behind that. That makes 9 TT's on each side.
The main should have TT's on the trailing edge at the end of the batten pocket for a total of 3.
Read Don's book or one of the other books on sail trim. Steve Colgate has an excellent book as do many others.
I love to get every bit of performance out of my drag racing car and my 23 San Juan sailboat. I don't mean that every other boat I see causes a race.......unless......he turns his motor off and hoists a sail. Enjoy your C22. I loved mine and they can do anything asked of them.
Ray

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Kito,

The guys gave good info for you. I also believe that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Merlin posted a sail chart also, that was cool. I sometimes give sailing lessons, and one handout I give is from Chapman Piloting. I found this to be insightful. I have it sealed in plastic & ask folks to keep close to the cockpit for reference. Look closely at the sail shapes on all points.

ps: I never was crazy of a beam reach for speed, it was mainly for a relaxing time and not having to hold on. Worked real well with passengers onboard.

CR

 

[o_ryry]

I was having this exact same problem yesterday. This was really helpful.

 

[rardiH36]

Does the "if in doubt, let it out" rule (that would be ease until first sign of luffing, then bring in just enough to stop the luffing) apply to beam reaches?

I ask because on my boat, and it seems like others I have been on, for the mainsail at least, the boom is certainly way past the 45 degree angle for the just stop the luffing position.

Occasionally on San Francisco Bay I do see boats on a beam reach course sailing along with their booms/jibs trimmed in tight. If the wind is brisk, they are frightfully heeled over and fighting the weather helm ... and not making much speed. In lighter winds, they often seem to be hardly moving. Boats with sails trimmed better for beam reach just blow right by them.

 

[Ken Secor]

"Does the "if in doubt, let it out" rule (that would be ease until first sign of luffing, then bring in just enough to stop the luffing) apply to beam reaches?"

YES Indeed!

 

[mark_swart]

And remember, watching the other boats and doing what they do as far as sail trim isn't cheating!

 

[Don Guillette]

Ken/Mark: What you are describing is called "trimming to a point of draw". Also, if the inside telltale on the jib flip -- trim in. If the outside telltale flips -- ease out.

On watching the sail trim of boats in front of you -- I did that all the time. If their trim was CRAPPY I knew it was just a matter of time before we passed them. If their trim was GOOD, I knew it was going to be a long day!!

It doesn't have to be a race. Anytime there are 2 boats on the water going in the same direction you're RACING whether you know it or not. It also happens with boats coming from behind you. You know what they're thinking -- I do because I'm thinking the same thing in a reverse situation. A few years ago in Long Beach, Ca harbor a boat came up behind me. Two young couples were on board -- it really doesn't matter about the age but I know what they were thinking -- let's give this old fart a lesson!! My wife was in her usual position soaking up rays and looking aft. I eased off the traveler and dropped down a bit so they'd have to pass on the outside. I asked my wife to tell me when they were 50 yards off my stern. I then cranked the traveler to center and it was goodby. Later, I saw them in the Shoreline YC bar and they asked how I did what I did -- "did what??".

 

[foolproof]

definitely use the littl graphic that was posted previously. I occasionally see boats on a beam reach course with the sails close hauled, and I instantly know that they don't know exactly what they're doing. They (apparantly) think that the sails are like slabs, and need to be in tight to get the best speed. However, like you found out, what is actually happening is that the wind is pushing the boat sideways - downwind - as much as it is moving it forward.

Remember that the sails are actually airfoils, just like the wings on an airplane. On a beam reach the sails should be eased until they take on a nice rounded shape, which may be up to 45 degrees off centerline. You can check the trim occasionally by letting the sails out until they luff, then trim them in a wee bit again, until the luffing goes away. This way the wind is working most efficiently, moving the boat across the wind instead of blowing it downwind.

Incidentally, the beam reach is my favorite point of sail because it is the fastest and most exciting point...lots of wind across the cockpit and plenty of speed under the keel!