Be wary of TowBoatUS in Lake St. Clair

[Vegas]

Be wary of the TowBoatUS contractor for Lake St. Clair & St. Clair River, “St. Clair Marine Salvage Services”

On the afternoon of 9/19/2012, I got my keel caught amongst some rocks on Lake St. Clair in the shoal between the Gaukler buoys right off Jefferson Beach Marina. I was afloat and perfectly upright. It was a fairly nice day and was in no danger.

Rather than risk damage trying to power hard out of the rocks, I called TowBoatUS.

Capt William Leslie, "TowBoatUS Lake St. Clair-St. Clair River", 586-783-7700, arrived perhaps 20 minutes later. He already had a second boat responding as well, which arrived perhaps 10 minutes after the first. Both responding boats were small, like under 20 feet. Each had one person aboard. Leslie kedged me over using my halyard while the second boat slowly pulled me to deeper water, perhaps 1/4 mile east. This kedging and towing part lasted perhaps 10-15 minutes. The second boat then left the scene. Leslie remained perhaps 10 more minutes doing paperwork. Allowing their travel time to and from, and time on the scene, each boat probably only had about an hour or an hour and a quarter invested.

My insurance company (Fremont Yacht Insurance) got the bill a few days later: $9,500.
The invoice came from "St. Clair Marine Salvage Services", 26290 Jefferson Ave., Harrison Twp. 48045. Apparently they are the local contractor for TowBoatUS on Lake St. Clair and on the St. Clair River. I understand they've only had the contract for the past year or two. The actual invoice was for $9500, and my insurance company negotiated them down to $7600, and paid it over my objections

I encouraged my insurance adjuster, Dena Boyle, to fight it. They chose to pay it.

Don't be complacent and think that can't happen to you.....like I was.
By the way, that $58/year TowBoatUS insurance (which I don’t have anyway) would not cover my situation, per this Capt. William Leslie, because he classified mine as a “hard grounding”. Read the fine print in your insurance.
I’m hearing anecdotal information about other cases like this involving St. Clair Marine Salvage, including a number of lawsuits where boatowners sued over incidents like mine. Some are available to read for yourself on the web. One, for example, in Macomb County Circuit Court involved a $26,000 tow bill for a 48 foot SeaRay. I’d like to hear specifics of any other, similar incidents.

My keel has some gouges in spots in about the bottom inch....but nothing serious…which proves, in my opinion, that I was just barely on a rock. I’m currently evaluating the need for repair.

I would ask you to tell or forward this info to any of your boating friends so that they can be aware and not blindly trust that TowBoatUS will be fair with them.
Please email me at sailor.06@hotmail if you would like further info.
I would recommend you not let them even TOUCH your boat without getting a maximum charge agreement IN WRITING. St. Clair Marine Salvage Services will not want to do that, they will want you to sign an “open” salvage agreement.
I contacted the national TowBoatUS manager of tow customer service, a CHIP FARDWELL, 800-283-2883 ext. 3636, and he looked into it but told me they will not intervene. I don’t think this incident reflects well on the national TowBoatUS organization.
There ARE alternatives to calling TowBoatUS. I’d like to learn more about all the alternatives available to us, but one, for example, is Michigan Marine Salvage, 586-468-2430, 32475 S. River Rd., Harrison Township 48045. They said their bill would have been MUCH less, maybe only $1,000 or $2,000. I've posted MI Marine Salvage's phone number in my nav station, and thrown away TowBoatUS's number, in the event I ever need assistance again!
I called TowBoat US on 9/19 because I had had a good experience with them 6 years ago (apparently that incident was handled by the previous TowBoatUS contractor who used to cover that area), but I will NEVER call them again!
If you’ve had good, fair experiences with other marine tow/salvage services in the Lake St. Clair area, I’d like to hear about it and get their phone number.
A discussion on this issue can also be viewed at:
http://www.lakestclair.net/index.php?/topic/103649-unsatisfactory-experience-with-towboatus/

 

[Roger Long]

I'm sure you would have had a different outcome it you had carried the $125 TowboatUS insurance. Why anyone wouldn't is beyond me.

I had a similar situation in which a TowboatUS franchise tried to come after me for their full costs saying I owed them anything above what TowboatUS paid them. They threatened to have my boat tied to the dock and me evicted from it until the case was settled. I called the TowboatUS mothership and they slapped him down so hard it put a smile on my face. They even sent me a copy of the email saying that, if he ever tried anything like that again, they would yank his franchise so fast his head would spin.

These are franchises. The red paint and TowboatUS logo on the side of the boat do not mean that you are dealing with TowboatUS if you are not carrying their insurance. You are on your own. I'm sure TowboatUS would have helped you if you had previously paid them the $125, about the best money you can spend as a boat owner.

 

[RichH]

Any 'hard grounding' is considered part of the legal concept of 'salvage' - usually always a very expensive situation, especially when one is presented with and accepts an 'open claim'.

Unlimited towing insurance is 99% the very best way to prevent also a 'hard grounding of your WALLET'.

 

[Jackdaw]

Hmmm.

You put a 38 foot sailboat hard on the rocks, and it only cost you a scuffed keel, hurt pride and a insurance deductible? I think you got off easy. It sounds like they showed up fast and handled getting you off in a totally professional manner. If your insurance company thought it was unreasonable, they would have fought it, but I'm guessing it was not.

You said they had 1-1.25 hours invested, but those boats and crew did not spring fully formed the moment you called. There were sitting at the ready. They already have much invested at that point, so there can be there for you.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

I'll repeat my story again....


labor day weekend, aboard a friends 25' wellcraft powerboat. tied to a mooring bouy 1 mile S of port everglades (FLL) fishing in 25' of water, 1 mile from beach.

Boat was taking on water, over transom, bilge pumps stopped working. (low transom design, full of fuel... poor factory design problem).

eventually batteries shorted and engine would not start. I call on ch 16 for boats us. (I have unlimited). 3 tow boats US show up fast. on does damage to stb side of boat.

They want this to be declared a salvage. owner refuses. while the owner was discussing charges, with boat on stb side, I toss the bow line to the largest of the 3, and ask him to begin the tow in. he refuses until contract is signed. we sit for 10 min, and rotate to stern to waves while attached to largest boat.

finally I get back on ch 16 and call a mayday, uscg arrives and I remove the tow line from boats us. uscg comes aboard, attaches their line to the bow, tows us in.

While being towed in I pull the plug and drain all the water out of boat.

10 min later we are inside turning basin engine starts and uscg takes us to nearest public dock where we are released.

-bottom line: Boats US would not offer assistance until they had a salvage contract.

They were more than happy to allow us to sink, since that would have put more money in their hands.


they are salvers. its a business, and they are there to make money on your misfortune. they are not my friends. modern day pirates.

I accept they provide a service. but I don't like it.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

When did personal responsibility stop being fashionable?

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Vegas,

I'm not clear on exactly what you want. You got yourself grounded, you called them yourself, they responded and got you into clear water quickly and with minimal damage, your insurance company made the decision to pay the bill after negotiation (their option, not yours). You and your boat survived the experience with little or no expense. Well, maybe a deductible but that's between you and your insurance carrier.

I'm not trying to justify their bill. Your insurance company already has but the way I see it, once you turned it over to your insurance it was out of your control and involvement. That's how insurance works and why you have it.

Your needs were met by all parties. What more do you want, control over the towing company's business practice? The way I see it your only involvement was receiving services that were paid by others.

 

[Stu Jackson]

FYI and FWIW after-the-fact, BoatUS themselves have a pretty good record in explaining to perhaps "unaware boaters" just what the difference is between salvage and towing. Without looking at their website myself this morning, I'm pretty sure it's there, if not even very prominent, on their website. Their quarterly publication, Seaworthy, pretty regularly writes the differences up in easy-to-understand language. I think I have kept a copy in my ship's papers, just-in-case.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties, but forewarned is forearmed.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

To the OP, did you sign a salvage agreement? and was the 10 or 20% of boat value in the agreement?


if you didn't have insurance, would you have done something different?

did the actions of Boats US prevent further damage?

 

[RECESS]

I have dealt with Boat US three times in six years of having unlimited towing insurance. Once for a grounding.... No charge just paperwork. Once when my outboard would not start on my 25 Oday...no charge just paperwork. Once when I needed my transmission checked, towed from my slip to the boatyard, the captain did not even do paperwork on that one.

I have been extremely pleased. Without being a policy holder, they are a salvage company and 10K in Florida is the going rate for a salvage operation. Anytime you are on the rocks or unable to maneuver off the sand, that is the price you can expect. Paying that $125 a year is something I never feel bad about doing. We do at least 3 - 4 cruises a year.

 

[Jackdaw]

I have dealt with Boat US three times in six years of having unlimited towing insurance. Once for a grounding.... No charge just paperwork. Once when my outboard would not start on my 25 Oday...no charge just paperwork. Once when I needed my transmission checked, towed from my slip to the boatyard, the captain did not even do paperwork on that one.

I have been extremely pleased. Without being a policy holder, they are a salvage company and 10K in Florida is the going rate for a salvage operation. Anytime you are on the rocks or unable to maneuver off the sand, that is the price you can expect. Paying that $125 a year is something I never feel bad about doing. We do at least 3 - 4 cruises a year.

One clarification: If it ends up being a salvage operation (and a hard grounding always is) your Vessel Assist package buys you nothing.

As the owner of one, I'm personally wary of the notion of the owner of a upper-mid 30-foot pleasure craft taking a working water-man to task for doing his job. We might be out there for fun, but he's working. And now while we're safe and back at our day jobs, I'm pretty sure he's out there again, trying to pay the bills. I'm guessing he's not sitting in some mansion somewhere, eating cake and laughing at us.

 

[Bob J.]

One clarification: If it ends up being a salvage operation (and a hard grounding always is) your Vessel Assist package buys you nothing.

I couldn't accept a bill like that. I would think for these guys to justifty a hard grounding as a salvage operation is wrong unless you've got a hole in the hull & taking on water.
If someone handed me a bill for $9500 bill because I was grounded, I'd be snapping to.

 

[Jackdaw]

I couldn't accept a bill like that. I would think for these guys to justifty a hard grounding as a salvage operation is wrong unless you've got a hole in the hull & taking on water.
If someone handed me a bill for $9500 bill because I was grounded, I'd be snapping to.

They do basically two operations. Tow or salvage. If its not a tow (which you could have a buddy do), its salvage.

You can always refuse service. But it makes no sense to fight this, this has been the rule of law on the water for hundreds of years. Your insurance company knows it, its why you have salvage insurance.

 

[CarlN]

As Jackdaw says, the laws involving salvage go back hundreds of years and have their own courts and lawyers (Admiralty courts). The whole idea is to encourage salvage despite the despite the fact that it isn't always successful (in which case the salvor gets nothing) and it can be a dangerous business.

Awards of 30%+ of the vessel's value is common. My guess is that your insurance company anticipated that the court would grant the full $9500 if they didn't settle (not to mention the legal costs).

Here's my favorite salvage (or is it a "tow") picture. Blow it up to see that the guy on the right is about to throw the tow line.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/showallphotos.aspx?imo=9083964&photoid=90423#top_photo

 

[oldersalt]

Even when you know your insurance will be paying for the tow, isn't it prudent to discuss the price of the tow (or salvage, if that's what the tow operator calls it), BEFORE the job starts? It sounds like that discussion may not have happened in this case.

Also, you may want to find out if there is a technical definition somewhere of "hard" vs. "soft" grounding. Maybe it has something to do with the likelihood of major damage or destruction of the boat if is not moved quickly. Or maybe hard vs. soft bottom, in which case the tow operator would have been correct, it appears.

 

[puddlejockey]

Thanks for sharing this, Vegas.
If nothing else, it caused me to dig out my BoatUS card, and check my towing level.
I'm still unclear on the definition of "soft grounding" versus "hard grounding"; as i have unlimited Freshwater towing that only covers the former.

Several years ago, while at my Dad's place in Harbor Beach, we watched a brand new 38 power cruiser rip his sterndrive off the boat on some unmarked rocks just South or where we were enjoying our beverages. By the time we got out to him, the boat was almost fully under. He'd had it for less than 2 weeks.
If I remember correctly, his salvage bill ( including recovery and the MI fines and cleanup for chemicals) was well over $40k.

If you think keep a boat afloat is unfairly expensive....try sinking one sometime...

 

[anchorclanker]

I guess it hasnt changed. When I first started boating, like 100 years ago, I recall being told that if you throw a line to a salvage vessel, or ask for one tossed to you, and tie on, your had.

I had no idea the big insurance companies were paying those kinds of sums, and its admittedly very extravagant. This should be a red flag to everyone to do all you can to avoid needing assistance.

Regardless how long its been "law", those are very exorbitant rates. I cannot think of any other activity that comes close to charging that kind of money. $9500 for an hours work? Thats piracy alright. I dont know what else to call it.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Really?

After putting out around $80K - $120K for vessels (if you have only two and they're small), equip them with the necessary electronics, dewatering pumps, liftbags and compressors, safety and firefighting equipment, maintain those vessels that are in use daily, fuel those vessels daily, insure your operation, insure those vessels, man those vessels around the clock (three shifts X 2), insure your employees, pay for a facility from which to operate and hire lawyers to chase down unpaid invoices, let's see what you would charge.

Keep in mind, the weekends might be busy (MIGHT be) but mid week not nearly as much and likely the business is seasonal. Oh yeah, somewhere in there you need to afford to live in some of the most expensive areas in the country.

Good luck.

 

[weinie]

Sea Tow's ungrounding policy:

Ungroundings: Sea Tow will provide free ungrounding assistance to covered vessels when all five of the following conditions apply, namely that the vessel:
1. is in a stable, safe condition,
2. is not in dangerous surf or inside a dangerous surf line,
3. is surrounded by water on all sides,
4. has some movement (i.e. rocking),
5. and can be refloated upon initial arrival or at the next high tide in 15 minutes or less by one Sea Tow boat.

Ungroundings that do not meet the foregoing criteria are considered salvage services and are invoiced to the member as such.​

 

[Tally Ho]

Here is what BoatUs has on their website...

Q: What is the difference between Towing and Salvage?
BoatUS establishes Towing-Ungrounding as "any operation not involving immediate peril to the boat or to a legally protected marine environment and requiring only one towing vessel with lines attached to the grounded boat to refloat it or to the disabled boat to tow it." Salvage includes "any operation involving immediate peril to the boat, the marine environment or the use of special salvage equipment (pumps, airbags, dredging equipment, cranes, etc."). For more information about the difference between Towing and Salvage, please click here.

It is listed under "Towing FAQ".

Clicking on the "more information" link provides further explanation and a sales pitch for BoatUs insurance.

Seems that the need for 2 vessels to get the boat off the rocks constitutes "salvage".

Greg