Be Aware of Documentation web sites!

[Ron20324]

I completed my documentation renewal on Feb 12. I received the new one the 19th. By the way, Falling Waters is the Frank Lloyd Wright house built over a creek. Nice place to visit in SW PA. I once went to Falling Waters, but had no idea I was smack in the middle of where my ancestors lived.

 

[dlochner]

I completed my documentation renewal on Feb 12. I received the new one the 19th. By the way, Falling Waters is the Frank Lloyd Wright house built over a creek. Nice place to visit in SW PA. I once went to Falling Waters, but had no idea I was smack in the middle of where my ancestors lived.

The renewal service is very quick!

The USCG Doc office is located in Falling Waters, West Virginia. It is about as close to Washington, DC as you can get and still be in WV. West Virginia can thank the late Senator Robert Byrd for the location.

 

[Ron20324]

The renewal service is very quick!

The USCG Doc office is located in Falling Waters, West Virginia. It is about as close to Washington, DC as you can get and still be in WV. West Virginia can thank the late Senator Robert Byrd for the location.

Next time I go to Falling Waters with flowers for ancestor graves, I'll taKE A DOZEN TO THE USCG OFFICE.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The 5 year renewal is new this year. Lot's of people don't know about it.

I was told by the fellow on the other end of the USCG customer service line that this will be the last year they renew one year at a time. Perhaps I mis-heard, but I'm pretty sure he said that starting next year, all renewals will be for a 5-year clip. That will make their processing much more "efficient". I read that to mean that they think it is a waste of time to do it yearly and they want to cut out all the effort.

When I was on the phone with him, I was going to extend just one or two years. I was told that the next time I renewed, the only choice would be 5 years, so I might as well start now.

 

[jssailem]

so I might as well start now.

Makes total sense.

I conjecture that the agency will discover this change will be a financial shot in the arm. A sudden injection of cash flow that will come back to haunt them. There will be a couple lean years in the future when no money rolls in.

Everyone is on the new 5 year cycle. They will of course spend this new found money in the first two years on computers only to run out of funds. Then either they beg for more funds from congress or raise the fee from $26 to $50 or $75 times 5 on the next renewal.


Fortunately for us boaters the leaders will have graduated from Oregon classrooms and the 5 year cost will be $200 or $700 your choice.

Some how it will all work out.

 

[dlochner]

Makes total sense.

I conjecture that the agency will discover this change will be a financial shot in the arm. A sudden injection of cash flow that will come back to haunt them. There will be a couple lean years in the future when no money rolls in.

Everyone is on the new 5 year cycle. They will of course spend this new found money in the first two years on computers only to run out of funds. Then either they beg for more funds from congress or raise the fee from $26 to $50 or $75 times 5 on the next renewal.


Fortunately for us boaters the leaders will have graduated from Oregon classrooms and the 5 year cost will be $200 or $700 your choice.

Some how it will all work out.

By law Government fees for licenses, documentation, etc, must reflect the actual cost of administering those fees. Fees will rise as inflation dictates.

While there will be a large influx of new 5 year documentations, the surge will be softened by those who sell their boats after paying the 5 year few. In a few years it will all even out. This is now year 3 of the 5 year option, many have already taken advantage of it.

What remains to be seen is how transfers will work. If I sell my boat before the document expires, will I get a refund? A credit? Will the new owner have a free ride for a few years? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Capt jgw]

If they do all the existing doc's now for 5 years, not only will there be no money coming for 5 years, there'll be a huge surge in work load when they all come due at once. And huge delays. Unless they plan on using part-time help during that period?

 

[Justin_NSA]

Who knows how the government thinks. We used to go to the KS Wildlife & Parks office to get our annual park stickers since our marina is in the park. Now we can purchase them when we renew our car tags for half the cost at the Parks office. They say is saves them money.

 

[Capt jgw]

Who knows how the government thinks. We used to go to the KS Wildlife & Parks office to get our annual park stickers since our marina is in the park. Now we can purchase them when we renew our car tags for half the cost at the Parks office. They say is saves them money.

Michigan does that too. I'd bet some people get the park tag then don't go to a park that year. Real money saver that way!

 

[dlochner]

If they do all the existing doc's now for 5 years, not only will there be no money coming for 5 years, there'll be a huge surge in work load when they all come due at once. And huge delays. Unless they plan on using part-time help during that period?

You're assuming that no new boats will be sold, no old boats sold, and no one has already renewed for 5 years. All of those are erroneous assumptions. My Documentation will expire in 2025.

 

[jssailem]

Just because there are additional assumptions, as presented here that may or may not be in play, does not negate the first scenario that now at the beginning of their 5 year program there are possibly a significant volume of boat owners both recreational and commercial renewing their license and selecting the 5 year plan.

This scenario has the potential for serious budgeting issues. If managed properly and the surplus funds created by this influx is properly managed the outcome could be positive.

Government has been challenged to manage surplus funds with a conservative viewpoint. The pot of money is as tempting as the cookie jar in the kitchen. We'll just borrow a little today and it will get made up next Tuesday...

The outcome is in doubt and will be revealed in the next couple of years.

 

[Ron20324]

I can see it now... the next couple years they'll take in alot of money and spend it. In 5 years, their budget for appropriations needs will show very little money coming in, thus the need for an increase of fees will be needed. In 10 years it happens all over again. By then I won't have a boat, but others will.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If they do all the existing doc's now for 5 years, not only will there be no money coming for 5 years, there'll be a huge surge in work load when they all come due at once. And huge delays. Unless they plan on using part-time help during that period?

Actually, I'm not sure that my reporting of a mandatory 5-year extension is accurate. Somebody may want to verify. However, there is no reason to expect the workload to increase every 5th year based on the workload that up until a few years ago occurred every single year. The only reason for an increase in workload would be an increase in the number of documented boats. I'm with Dave on this ... eventually the years that people begin their 5-year extension will be distributed evenly and the workload will be 1/5 the normal current workload. For instance, for every 100 documented boats, each year they will have 20 renewals instead of 100 renewals each year.

I also question what happens when there is an exchange. But it would be logical that the exchange fee takes care of the exchange, and there would not be any need for updated renewal for the remainder of the period that goes with the boat.

Just like in real estate transactions where taxes and escrows are adjusted for pre-paid expenses, the closing statement for the boat could include a credit to the Seller & debit to the Buyer for the pre-paid document fee.

 

[Davidasailor26]

An interesting Government Accountability Office report on the Naval Vessel Documentation Center - https://www.gao.gov/assets/720/711315.pdf

I can’t say the findings inspire too much confidence. The lack of internal financial auditing also suggests that not too much financial analysis could have been done for the 5 year extension change. The report does confirm in a couple places that the effective period will be set at 5 years after December 2021.

 

[dlochner]

Yesterday I sent this inquiry to the Chief of the Commercial Division at NVDC:

There are also questions about the 5 year renewal process. Of course, people always fear the worst. One question I have is what happens if a boat is sold during the 5 years, will there be a refund or credit for the unused years? There is also a concern that the DC budget folks will look at the increased fees as a windfall and the reduction in annual renewals for the next few years will lead to staff reductions and increased delays in renewals. Right now, folks are reporting renewals are being processed in a about a week and their happy with that turnaround. Can you share any information about the next few years and how the change over will affect operations and boat owners?

She replied:

Starting on January 1, 2022, all vessels endorsed for recreational use only will be issued a certificate that will be valid for five years. If a vessel is sold during the five years, there will be no refund or credit for the unused years. The fee for a five year renewal will be $130 (which is $26 for each year). At this time, the renewal process will not be changing for the owner. The NVDC does not expect to experience any delays in renewal processing related to the five year COD requirement.

 

[kappykaplan]

Tks, Dave.

 

[jssailem]

Reading the GAO report identified a couple of conclusions I found interesting.

What GAO Found​

In recent years, the Coast Guard’s National Vessel Documentation Center (NVDC) met workload demands for timely processing of commercial vessel documentation, but not for recreational vessel documentation. From January 2015 through September 2019, its recreational documentation processing time averaged 57 days—about 4 times longer than its 15-day informal target (see fig.).​

• NVDC officials attributed the current backlogs to performance issues with the Coast Guard’s information technology system for managing vessel documentation​

When you do not have a good answer blame the computer system...

• The Coast Guard has generally not conducted operational analyses of its vessel documentation system since 2012.

Could this be a leadership issue? I am guessing the NVDC billets are not exciting command billets. Your future in the CG might be like being stationed at one of the weather stations in Northern Alaska.

the Coast Guard should ensure the NVDC conducts a full cost study of NVDC’s commercial and recreational user fees, DHS stated that the NVDC will conduct a full cost study of its commercial and recreational user fees, ...... DHS stated that the NVDC will do so after the Coast Guard develops a new information technology system, VDS 3.0, to allow the NVDC to accurately assess the actual costs of providing services to the public, including new information technology support costs. DHS estimated that it will complete these actions by December 31, 2022.​

​

Sounds like to me that the fees will be going up in 2023.