This weekend I am going to be wiring my boat with new Nav lights, an anchor light, a GPS and a compass light. The old wiring looks awful so I am planning on ripping all of it out and starting from scratch. Have an O’day 22 and I can’t find what they used as a grounding point on it. I was thinking about just drilling a hole in the bottom near the battery and using a stainless 1” bolt with a sealer and attaching the ground to that. Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn’t I want to just run the + wire to the switch panel and then from the switch panel to each of the respective devises. For the ground, I would want to run it from the battery, to the ground and then from there to the switch panel and to each of the respective devises. I might install a battery switch as well so I could just place that in front of the switch panel. I also wanted to use one of those $50 solar chargers for the battery and was planning on just hooking it directly to the battery is there any chance of an overcharge? Also I was debating between the AGM, Gel or even something cheaper. I just want to have the longest batt life for the buck. Maybe even two batts. Thanks in advance for responses.
- Status
I'm no expert by any means...
But I am not sure why you need to drill a hole in the bottom of your boat... I would just use either a fuse panel with a negative buss bar in it or install a separate buss barr and run all the negative returns to there and then connect the buss to the negative side of the battery. David
But I am not sure why you need to drill a hole in the bottom of your boat... I would just use either a fuse panel with a negative buss bar in it or install a separate buss barr and run all the negative returns to there and then connect the buss to the negative side of the battery. David
hull hole?
Steve Couple of suggestions - first, it's not a good idea to have multiple ground points - the result being the likelihood for multiple sources of galvanic corrosion. Best to route everything to a single ground bus incl the engine chassis. I don't think you want to drill a hole in the hull... Solar panels should be protected by diodes to preclude draining the batteries and you might want to consider 6V batteries which would give you more capacity for the buck. Last, you might consider getting a boat elec book which would show diagrams of how best to wire multiple electronics. Don
Steve Couple of suggestions - first, it's not a good idea to have multiple ground points - the result being the likelihood for multiple sources of galvanic corrosion. Best to route everything to a single ground bus incl the engine chassis. I don't think you want to drill a hole in the hull... Solar panels should be protected by diodes to preclude draining the batteries and you might want to consider 6V batteries which would give you more capacity for the buck. Last, you might consider getting a boat elec book which would show diagrams of how best to wire multiple electronics. Don
Steve, Stop!
Ground doesn't mean earth. It means the negative side of the battery (-). Get yourself a good book on the subject. When you ran down the list of stuff you were going to do THIS weekend I thought 'No Way, not even an expert can do that in a weekend'.
Ground doesn't mean earth. It means the negative side of the battery (-). Get yourself a good book on the subject. When you ran down the list of stuff you were going to do THIS weekend I thought 'No Way, not even an expert can do that in a weekend'.
Negative side of the battery is
your ground. If you have an inboard then the motor block will also do, but somewhere in the system the minus side of the battery must get into the game. When I wired my older boat I installed a junction block for the minus side and the plus side which I ran individual wires to and the blocks to the battery poles. Do not drill a hole in your boat!
your ground. If you have an inboard then the motor block will also do, but somewhere in the system the minus side of the battery must get into the game. When I wired my older boat I installed a junction block for the minus side and the plus side which I ran individual wires to and the blocks to the battery poles. Do not drill a hole in your boat!
OK no holes...
So the hole idea is out. I think I will run the negative off the battery and then ground to the outboard motor. Now that I figured out that, How about the solar panel. What are the diodes that I should put on this. Can someone explain these. How would hooking up a solar charger steel power? I am worried about overcharging but a 5W solar panel shouldn'e be able to hurt anything. And then how about what kind of batt to use?
So the hole idea is out. I think I will run the negative off the battery and then ground to the outboard motor. Now that I figured out that, How about the solar panel. What are the diodes that I should put on this. Can someone explain these. How would hooking up a solar charger steel power? I am worried about overcharging but a 5W solar panel shouldn'e be able to hurt anything. And then how about what kind of batt to use?
In my opinion
I would leave to outboard out of the wiring system. No matter what, you need to understand how DC electrical systems are put together... I have taken the advice of the other responders to your post and have learned a ton of stuff and corrected a bunch of what I thought I knew...
I would leave to outboard out of the wiring system. No matter what, you need to understand how DC electrical systems are put together... I have taken the advice of the other responders to your post and have learned a ton of stuff and corrected a bunch of what I thought I knew...
Steve, please
get a book. You can't just 'think you will run the negative off of the battery',,,,you MUST. Everything has to have its' (-) connected to the (-) of the battery. The concept is easy but if you don't understand it you could damage equipment or burn down your boat. Please, get a book.
get a book. You can't just 'think you will run the negative off of the battery',,,,you MUST. Everything has to have its' (-) connected to the (-) of the battery. The concept is easy but if you don't understand it you could damage equipment or burn down your boat. Please, get a book.
Trial and error usually results in error
Like others have said, you shouldn't do this my creative imagination. For example, the solar panel can do more damage than good if not wired correctly.
Like others have said, you shouldn't do this my creative imagination. For example, the solar panel can do more damage than good if not wired correctly.
Ok, I do understand I just want to be clear
I have done wiring before so I'm not as inept as you might think. I have no problem with wiring each device. My question is about the ground. When I restored my 53’ Dodge M37 (a little more complicated than an O’day 22), I didn’t just hook the wires up to the batteries and call it a day, I grounded it to the frame… I understand how that works, I have plenty of experience working with wiring but just not with boats. I can’t just hook everything up to the battery; it also needs to be grounded. What would you use for a ground?? I don’t have keel bolts so that won’t work. This whole thing is fiberglass so I thought the outboard would make perfect sense it also has a zinc so it is even better. Why not?
I have done wiring before so I'm not as inept as you might think. I have no problem with wiring each device. My question is about the ground. When I restored my 53’ Dodge M37 (a little more complicated than an O’day 22), I didn’t just hook the wires up to the batteries and call it a day, I grounded it to the frame… I understand how that works, I have plenty of experience working with wiring but just not with boats. I can’t just hook everything up to the battery; it also needs to be grounded. What would you use for a ground?? I don’t have keel bolts so that won’t work. This whole thing is fiberglass so I thought the outboard would make perfect sense it also has a zinc so it is even better. Why not?
On a vehicle the frame is the ground
I'll bet my lunch that your Dodge had a connection from the negative post on the battery to the frame or engine. The frame was then essentially a giant negative buss bar. There was no attachment from the frame or engine on your Dodge to the earth, just a return path called the "negative" side of the circuit. Calling it a ground is confusing but an often used term. The reason I don't think you need to bring the outboard into the equation is that it likely doesn't have an electric start so has no need for electrical power or connection into the circuit. Even if it does it is really just another circuit. An inboard is a totally different animal when it comes to wiring. All we are saying is that boats are somewhat different than cars although both use DC systems. As all have suggested, I would read some books to see what the differences are between car & boat DC systems. I am pretty thick headed so I liked Sailboat Electrics by Don Casey (the title might not be exactly that but he is the author.)
I'll bet my lunch that your Dodge had a connection from the negative post on the battery to the frame or engine. The frame was then essentially a giant negative buss bar. There was no attachment from the frame or engine on your Dodge to the earth, just a return path called the "negative" side of the circuit. Calling it a ground is confusing but an often used term. The reason I don't think you need to bring the outboard into the equation is that it likely doesn't have an electric start so has no need for electrical power or connection into the circuit. Even if it does it is really just another circuit. An inboard is a totally different animal when it comes to wiring. All we are saying is that boats are somewhat different than cars although both use DC systems. As all have suggested, I would read some books to see what the differences are between car & boat DC systems. I am pretty thick headed so I liked Sailboat Electrics by Don Casey (the title might not be exactly that but he is the author.)
Use a 1/4" Bolt for Your "Ground"
Run a thick wire from your battery to it and a wire from every thing you hook up to a bolt near (but not too close) your switch panel. Each item will have two wires a positive from the switch panel and a negative going to your negative buss which will be your bolt. It is a rudementry and simple method but with just a half dozen or so electrical items it will work fine. Running all your wires to the battery won't work well for too long. Your battery should be tied down and in a battery box too.
Run a thick wire from your battery to it and a wire from every thing you hook up to a bolt near (but not too close) your switch panel. Each item will have two wires a positive from the switch panel and a negative going to your negative buss which will be your bolt. It is a rudementry and simple method but with just a half dozen or so electrical items it will work fine. Running all your wires to the battery won't work well for too long. Your battery should be tied down and in a battery box too.
Negative and Ground
Steve, your mistake is assuming that by getting into the water that you will be getting a "ground". First of all, as David said, ground is a term that is best forgotten about. You need to think in terms of positive and negative from the battery. Also, remember that water is a poor conductor of electricity. Even if this were a proper way to get your "ground", it would be an extremely poor ground. The resistance in the water makes it very poor. Buy Nigel Calder's book on electric wiring and study it before taking on this project. You'll be saving yourself a lot of heartaches...
Steve, your mistake is assuming that by getting into the water that you will be getting a "ground". First of all, as David said, ground is a term that is best forgotten about. You need to think in terms of positive and negative from the battery. Also, remember that water is a poor conductor of electricity. Even if this were a proper way to get your "ground", it would be an extremely poor ground. The resistance in the water makes it very poor. Buy Nigel Calder's book on electric wiring and study it before taking on this project. You'll be saving yourself a lot of heartaches...
A boat hull is not a car frame.
The path that a car frame provides back to the negative side of the battery must be provided with wires on a boat. Even with a metal hull, it can't be used for wiring. The plus side power to your device must have a negative return back to the other post on the battery. Please buy a book.
The path that a car frame provides back to the negative side of the battery must be provided with wires on a boat. Even with a metal hull, it can't be used for wiring. The plus side power to your device must have a negative return back to the other post on the battery. Please buy a book.
Steve, you have to remember that
Fiberglass doesn't conduct electricity like a steel car frame. It's not hard, just different. Tom s/v GAIA
Fiberglass doesn't conduct electricity like a steel car frame. It's not hard, just different. Tom s/v GAIA
Electrical wiring
Looks like all the Massachusetts sailors are out and about, now that it stopped raining. Regarding the electrical stuff: As you probably know by now, no drilling holes in the boat. It is not allowed!!! The + side of the electricity goes to the switch panel (need a big fat ass wire for this). The negative (-) side does not need to go to the switch at all. The best thing is to go back to a ground plate (bus bar) that you mount on a bulkhead that is near the battery. Drilling into bulkhead IS allowed. Make sure you have fuses or circuit breakers on the + side of all you circuits. Have fun
Looks like all the Massachusetts sailors are out and about, now that it stopped raining. Regarding the electrical stuff: As you probably know by now, no drilling holes in the boat. It is not allowed!!! The + side of the electricity goes to the switch panel (need a big fat ass wire for this). The negative (-) side does not need to go to the switch at all. The best thing is to go back to a ground plate (bus bar) that you mount on a bulkhead that is near the battery. Drilling into bulkhead IS allowed. Make sure you have fuses or circuit breakers on the + side of all you circuits. Have fun
Wiring
Well, Steve, you sure have openned a can o' worms on this one! IMHO, the "ground" you're talking about is generally used to ground the metal parts (mast, rigging wires, etc.) to the water (earth) for lightning protection - not necessarily for the 12-volt systems. This hopefully provides an easy path for that lightning bolt that has your name on it to pass through on it's way to the earth (yeah... I know: it actually goes from the ground up to the sky - Whatever!), instead of jumping through your boat (which it'll probably do anyway if you sustain a direct hit!). Anyway, as has been mentioned, we don't have too much metal in our hulls, so we use a negative buss bar near the battery to which all of your individual circuits are tied to. It just gives you a convenient spot with multiple tie points so's you don't have 500 wires wrapped around your battery post. In closing, if you're not using shore power, then you don't need to tie ANY of your DC wiring to ground (or water). If you are, then the 'ground' lead from your AC socket goes to some metal in the water to prevent any voltage differental between your boat's "ground" and the shore power's "ground" , therby preventing galvanic corrosion. WHEW! Jim Maroldo Ocean Gate, NJ
Well, Steve, you sure have openned a can o' worms on this one! IMHO, the "ground" you're talking about is generally used to ground the metal parts (mast, rigging wires, etc.) to the water (earth) for lightning protection - not necessarily for the 12-volt systems. This hopefully provides an easy path for that lightning bolt that has your name on it to pass through on it's way to the earth (yeah... I know: it actually goes from the ground up to the sky - Whatever!), instead of jumping through your boat (which it'll probably do anyway if you sustain a direct hit!). Anyway, as has been mentioned, we don't have too much metal in our hulls, so we use a negative buss bar near the battery to which all of your individual circuits are tied to. It just gives you a convenient spot with multiple tie points so's you don't have 500 wires wrapped around your battery post. In closing, if you're not using shore power, then you don't need to tie ANY of your DC wiring to ground (or water). If you are, then the 'ground' lead from your AC socket goes to some metal in the water to prevent any voltage differental between your boat's "ground" and the shore power's "ground" , therby preventing galvanic corrosion. WHEW! Jim Maroldo Ocean Gate, NJ
Put it back the way it was
You can clean it up a lot and install a buss bar but do NOT connect the battery negative to metal in the water. If you do not understand the difference between a bonding system and a negative ground electrical system, get a good book on boat wiring and read it thouroughly. Please note that I am not just talking to Steve. An Oday is not a Dodge - not even close to the same issues on a car as on a boat. I do not mean to sound harsh, but this is important to do right. If not for your own boat, do it for your neighbors. Your mistakes can and will cause electrolysis on someone elses prop. Putting a bolt through your hull as you describe may sink your own boat as it is eaten up. Ignorance can be corrected but stupidity is another issue altogether.
You can clean it up a lot and install a buss bar but do NOT connect the battery negative to metal in the water. If you do not understand the difference between a bonding system and a negative ground electrical system, get a good book on boat wiring and read it thouroughly. Please note that I am not just talking to Steve. An Oday is not a Dodge - not even close to the same issues on a car as on a boat. I do not mean to sound harsh, but this is important to do right. If not for your own boat, do it for your neighbors. Your mistakes can and will cause electrolysis on someone elses prop. Putting a bolt through your hull as you describe may sink your own boat as it is eaten up. Ignorance can be corrected but stupidity is another issue altogether.
Battery wireing
Steve: We have a 2005 boat, and one of the standard features on it is a 1:1 ground isolation transformer whose primary purpose is to isolate the boat's electrical system from the ocean earth ground(or shore power earth ground). This is a safety feature giving us a floating electrical system i.e. not earth grounded. Some boats have isolators which use diodes instead of transformers, but the function is the same: no earth ground. Exactly the opposite of what you will have if you run your battery negative to the outboard motor!!! Patrick is correct. Do not connect the battery negative to the water.
Steve: We have a 2005 boat, and one of the standard features on it is a 1:1 ground isolation transformer whose primary purpose is to isolate the boat's electrical system from the ocean earth ground(or shore power earth ground). This is a safety feature giving us a floating electrical system i.e. not earth grounded. Some boats have isolators which use diodes instead of transformers, but the function is the same: no earth ground. Exactly the opposite of what you will have if you run your battery negative to the outboard motor!!! Patrick is correct. Do not connect the battery negative to the water.
Nice threads
Wow... I am glad I didn't ask that question. Think I will get a book too! Thanks for the question Steve. Rich
Wow... I am glad I didn't ask that question. Think I will get a book too! Thanks for the question Steve. Rich
- Status