Battery Use Survey Observations

Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
As of this morning I have over 1000 responses!!

While waiting for a new refrigerator to be delivered I started looking over the data and found some interesting stuff..

*98.2% of all responses were from sailboat owners and the remainder mostly trawlers.

*80.3% of all responders spend less than 20 overnights on-board that may require a 50% depth of discharge. 46% of those responses were 10 nights or less.

*74% of all responders are using a 1/2/BOTH/OFF battery switch.

*74% of all responders are using one large house bank.

*67% of all responders use the house bank for everything including starting

*32% of responders use a dedicated starting battery

*29% of all responders are using Deka/East Penn / West Marine / NAPA etc. batteries and this is the most popular battery in the survey. 2nd most popular are Wal*Mart / generic auto parts store batteries at 19% and then Trojan at 13%.

*63% of all responders are fusing the house bank

*46% of all responders are fusing the starting battery as well

*64% of responders using 12V Group 24, 27, 31, 4D & 8D batteries reported 3 years or less service life.

*63% of responders using 6V golf cart batteries reported 6 years or more service life.

*73% of responders using standard AGM batteries reported 3 years or less service life.

*84% of responders using GEL batteries reported 7 years or more service life with 32% of those responses being over 10 years.

*75% of responder with dock sailed boats reported 5 years or less service life.

*66% of responders with mooring sailed boats reported 5 years or less service life with 3 years service representing nearly 42%..

*60% of responders who monitor voltage for SOC reported 4 years or less service life.

*88% of responders who use an amp hour counting battery monitor reported 5 years or more service life.

*89% of responders who monitor SOC by "when the light dim I charge" reported less than 4 years of service life.

*85% of responders who said they use an automotive battery charger reported 5 years or less service life with 37% of those responses being less than 3 years service life.

*43% of responders who admitted to never equalizing batteries get less than 4 years service life.

*66% of responders with stock alternators report less than 4 years service life.

*80% of responders with high performance alternators report 5 years or more service life with 59% being more than 6 years.

*86% of responders who deem it time to recharge at a low of 12.2V reported more than 5 years service life with 61% responding 6 or more years.

*94% of responders who deem it time to recharge at a low of 11.6V reported 3 years or less service life.

*83% of responders using "generic auto parts store or Wal*Mart type batteries" reported 5 years or less service life.

*61% of responders splitting house duties between two banks reported less than 5 years service life.

88.7% of responders report less than 150-1200 deep cycles 50% (DoD) before the batteries need replacement

*73% of responders using one large house bank report more than 5 years of service life and nearly 50% of those responses were 6+ years..


"I get less than satisfactory battery life" responders:

*86% of responders who said they get "less than satisfactory life" are seeing less than 3 years from their batteries. 65% of those 86% reside on a mooring or at anchor. Of that 65% on moorings/anchor 80% have only an alternator for charging. 60% of the "I get less than satisfactory life" responders have no idea as to how many amp hours they use and 90% have never done an energy budget yet nearly 66% have refrigeration and 67% have an inverter. 78% of the "I get less than satisfactory life" responders don't even consider charging until 11.8V or less. 68% of the "I get less than satisfactory life" responders are using flooded lead acid batteries and 30% are using standard AGM. 92% of the battery group types used in the "I get less than satisfactory life" responders are 12V Group 24, 27, 31, 4D or 8D.... 67% of the batteries in this group are made up of generic re-branded batteries such as West Marine, Wal*Mart etc. and 18% were standard AGM. 67% of the the "I get less than satisfactory life" responders said they never equalized. 87% of the "I get less than satisfactory life" responders do not use temp compensated charging equipment. A full 29% of users who answered this way have tried to use a battery warranty but did not have success..

From this it is easy to see why batteries die and boaters get less than satisfactory life........;)

All in all I don't think the survey has shown us anything we did not already know.... If you care for your batteries they last longer..... As I say over and over batteries don't die they are murdered by their owners....:D
 
May 24, 2004
7,173
CC 30 South Florida
If 74% of all respondents use a large battery bank and only 35% of all respondents have a dedicated starting battery it would seem to me that 39% of all respondents might lack redundancy in their system. I know there will be a group of small outboard powered vessels and some liveaboards that may have no need for redundancy but that should still leave a sizable percentage of people going out there with no backups. Well I take it back if only 20% sailed with no backups that would only mean 15 people which could hardly be considered a significant crowd. Hope you get the 2K respondents to give more weight to those percentages.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
If 74% of all respondents use a large battery bank and only 35% of all respondents have a dedicated starting battery it would seem to me that 39% of all respondents might lack redundancy in their system. I know there will be a group of small outboard powered vessels and some liveaboards that may have no need for redundancy but that should still leave a sizable percentage of people going out there with no backups. Well I take it back if only 20% sailed with no backups that would only mean 15 people which could hardly be considered a significant crowd. Hope you get the 2K respondents to give more weight to those percentages.
That is not what the results mean. The 74% are owners who use a single large house bank as opposed to a split house bank and alternate use. With a split house bank this means you actually have three banks two house banks and a starting or starting reserve bank.. It does not at all mean they don't have a back up or starting battery just that they split the house bank in two. A split house banks was a trend left over from the 60's & 70's that has mostly fallen to the wayside, for good reasons...

The 35% are owners who use a dedicated starting battery that starts the motor every time and the house bank provides only house loads. Usually this would be with a three ON/OFF battery switch combination or a Blue Sea Dual Circuit Plus or a 1/2/BOTH plus an ON/OFF for the starting circuit. Based on the survey the majority percentage of owners still prefer to do everything with the house bank and treat the second bank as a reserve/start bank...
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Your conclusions in the OP are very good and I'm pleased to learn that what we thought is actually true. Glad we don't have to "change the pitch!" :)
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,436
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Surveys like this are always interesting. The hard part is interpreting the results considering the inherent sampling bias and allowing for the tech interest of the respondents.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
For sure, Don, but I would guess that Maine Sail's desire to get at least 2K responses should begin to address your point.

Heck, getting sailors to respond is like herding cats. :cussing::eek::confused::naughty::dance::doh::snooty::eek:
 
May 7, 2012
1,547
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
For sure, Don, but I would guess that Maine Sail's desire to get at least 2K responses should begin to address your point. Heck, getting sailors to respond is like herding cats. :cussing::eek::confused::naughty::dance::doh::snooty::eek:
So I take this as a challenge. If each and everyone of us (725) that have completed the survey so far, forwards it on to 1.75682 friends, family or foe, Maine Sail will have his 2k respondents. So just to ensure we don't fall short, send it to all your boating associates be it slip mates, club members or the like. I think we owe it to him for all the sage advice he graciously provides.
 
May 24, 2004
7,173
CC 30 South Florida
Ok I get it, you are not counting a separate reserve starting bank as part of a split bank. One large house bank and separate reserve starting bank. I took the survey but do not remember the questions. The confusion was just in the wording and not in the concept. I'll wait for the final analysis.
 
Nov 14, 2013
200
Catalina 50 Seattle
Here's how I interpret the results so far. It doesn't much matter if you get yourself a Balmar Smartgauge or a traditional shunt-based emeter, an externally regulated 110A alternator vs. a 140A alternator, etc, etc. If you're inclined towards doing any of the above, you're likely not abusing your batteries.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Here's how I interpret the results so far. It doesn't much matter if you get yourself a Balmar Smartgauge or a traditional shunt-based emeter, an externally regulated 110A alternator vs. a 140A alternator, etc, etc. If you're inclined towards doing any of the above, you're likely not abusing your batteries.

If there is a general take away then this would be it.. Owners who actually care to get longer battery life do and can. Owners who don't won't...

Quite honestly I was surprised by the differences between a battery monitor and voltage only monitoring. We all know most battery monitors are so grossly calibrated that they are near useless in terms of any measure of accuracy. The one thing they do very well is to get owners to look at them and in turn pay attention to the bank. This, I have said for years, is what is causing owners to get longer life even with a grotesquely programmed battery monitor. We simply don't have enough data on the Smart Gauge to make any decisions. Based on its accuracy however I can only see the results ten years from now showing a nice improvement in battery life.

It seems the results show that owners who at least try to treat their batteries well do better than those who treat them as an out of sight out of mind tool that is used then put away...

There were a bunch of other little gems in there too. Such as 82% of owners who use temp compensated charge equipment get 5 years or more service life with nearly 40% of them exceeding 7 years. In contrast 78% of those who answered no temp compensation are getting 5 years or less service with nearly 40% of those below 4 years. This to me says that temp compensation is not just an option but a tool that is the necessity the battery manufacturers say it is.......

It is also very clear that we as sailors are not killing our banks by using up all the deep cycles. In contrast we are murdering our batteries due to poor use and charging practices well before the cycles have been used up.

Another point that was pretty clear is that owners using automotive type chargers have pretty dismal service life from their batteries.

When broken down by battery group type or chemistry type the results were also interesting but not surprising. 12V pseudo deep cycle flooded batteries such as Group 24, 27, 31 4D & 8D had considerably shorter reported service lives than did 6V or 12V golf cart batteries. Brand to brand there were no real stand outs, but group type to group type there were..

In terms of service life longevity GEL was the consistency winner, along with 2V industrial batteries, with deep cycle flooded batteries such as 6V or 12V golf cart batteries coming in next. Standard AGM's beat pseudo deep cycle 12V batteries slightly overall, but they were very hit or miss depending upon what type of use they had. Many AGM owners reported 3 years or less and some reported higher than average and it all came down to how they were treated. All in all not much has changed....

*Charge Them Correctly
*Equalize When Needed
*Check The Electrolyte
*Use Temp Compensation
*Choose True Deep Cycle Batteries (when they can fit)
*Get Them To 100% SOC As Often As Is Possible
*Don't Over Discharge
*Don't Let Them Sit At Partial States Of Charge
*If All You Have Is an Alternator - Add Solar
 
Nov 14, 2013
200
Catalina 50 Seattle
Re: Smartgauge, I don't know how typical I am but I try never to let my house bank drop below 70%. Even with a grossly mis-calibrated emeter (and I don't think mine is), that buys me a big safety margin. If others do the same, the Smartguage would be of limited value unless there's no option for a bigger bank due to space/cost/whatever constraints.
 
Jan 12, 2011
930
Hunter 410 full time cruiser
From this it is easy to see why batteries die and boaters get less than satisfactory life........;)

Really a lot of boaters should consider themselves as getting "satisfactory life" even if that is only 3 years. If it truly wasn't they would do something about it. Otherwise that is just insane.

We talk about batteries a lot. But if you are using 6V golf cart batteries (the ones that the survey says are lasting) they are pretty cheap. My 460AH bank was less than $500 and are starting their fifth year (I have solar, battery monitor, and am on a mooring). But if they only lasted 3 years I would say $500/3 years is pretty darn good.

An interesting thing to find out is why so many people buy expensive batteries, then don't don't take any actions to make them last.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
An interesting thing to find out is why so many people buy expensive batteries, then don't don't take any actions to make them last.
This mystery will never be solved I suspect.... The vast majoprity of boat owners I come across bought AGM's "because they were the best"..... Sadly very, very, very few actually take any advantages of the features that make AGM's stand apart from flooded batteries.
 
Aug 16, 2009
1,000
Hunter 1986 H31 California Yacht Marina, Chula Vista, CA
Maine, can you provide a link to your explanation of what can and should be done to take advantage of AGM's features.
 
Aug 16, 2009
1,000
Hunter 1986 H31 California Yacht Marina, Chula Vista, CA
My 3 lifelines cost me less than comparable Walmart flooded cell batts because I got them from a guy who was trying to use a bunch of them for an electric car project that fizzled. Maine, you recommend solar to compensate for what no alternator, and certainly not my stock 35 amp, can do. Since I don't have solar, when the boat is in the marina, which is usually 5 days a week, the old Xantrex 2000 inverter charger working on shore power is doing its best to bring them up to full charge.
 

Laszlo

.
Jan 22, 2008
5
Catalina 36mkII Garden City UT
Just to add to the survey. I bought my C-36 in AUG. 2001. The original batteries (I think they were interstate) lasted about 6 yrs. they were "cooked" by the original charger I used to add water over a gallon in a year. Having said that I thought 6 yrs. is not bad. That time included one year when the boat was on the hard with only one charge during that time. The boat is in a slip with constant charging. I pull it about every third year. During winter we use bubblers. When on hard I leave battery fully charged and disconnected for about 6-7 months. When replaced the original set I switched to a Xantrex (sp) charger and I only have to add 2-3 cups of water a season. Still running strong. I think getting such long life is quite remarkable.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
My 3 lifelines cost me less than comparable Walmart flooded cell batts because I got them from a guy who was trying to use a bunch of them for an electric car project that fizzled. Maine, you recommend solar to compensate for what no alternator, and certainly not my stock 35 amp, can do. Since I don't have solar, when the boat is in the marina, which is usually 5 days a week, the old Xantrex 2000 inverter charger working on shore power is doing its best to bring them up to full charge.
The solar recommendation is for boats that are mooring sailed or at a dock with no charging....