Will be replacing my batteries this season. My Hunter Passage 42 has 2 8D house batteries and a starting battery. In the interest of not doing a lot of re-engineering, I have ruled out the golf cart/6 volt option. Would like advice on battery types, this is what I know so far (all specs from West Marine catalogue): 1)Wet cell 8D- Price $200. 223 amp hours. 200 cycles. Does not do well unmaintained over winter 2) AGM 8D- $479. 245 amp hours. 300 cycles, no maintenance 3) 8D Gel cel- $459. 225 amp hours. 500 cycles. Can sit all winter without re-charge OK, so looks like I will bite the bullet and buy either AGM or gel. AGM has more AH, gel has more cycles, price is the same. Also, gel is touted as no winter upkeep. Boat is an energy hog, the answer to the question "Does it have?" is yes. Which battery would you choose? Where would you buy it? Thanks! Bruce Hill s/v GailForce
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Batteries
Bruce, Our 356 delivered with two group 27 lead acid batteries. We took them out prior to delivery and replaced them with two group 4d agm's and one group 27 agm for a starter battery. I know we can get more power out of golf cart batteries, but I don't want to deal with lead acid batteries. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Bruce, Our 356 delivered with two group 27 lead acid batteries. We took them out prior to delivery and replaced them with two group 4d agm's and one group 27 agm for a starter battery. I know we can get more power out of golf cart batteries, but I don't want to deal with lead acid batteries. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
batteries
Bruce Have you looked at the new Rolls 8D's wet cells? 275 AH. Independent 2.2 volts cells for maintenance and moving and the like. Kinda pricey but look pretty bullet proof. 7 year factory warranty. Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
Bruce Have you looked at the new Rolls 8D's wet cells? 275 AH. Independent 2.2 volts cells for maintenance and moving and the like. Kinda pricey but look pretty bullet proof. 7 year factory warranty. Bryce S/V Spellbinder H410
Bryce is right on-Rolls is tops!
I've only looked at them, mind you, but the concept is great: Individual cells (fitting into a outer case the size of the 4D/8D, so it does not take a block & tackel to get the things in & out of the boat. Space for hydrocaps, so water use is VERY low Higher capacity in the same space The 7 year warranty Take a look!
I've only looked at them, mind you, but the concept is great: Individual cells (fitting into a outer case the size of the 4D/8D, so it does not take a block & tackel to get the things in & out of the boat. Space for hydrocaps, so water use is VERY low Higher capacity in the same space The 7 year warranty Take a look!
Batteries
Bruce; I looked at Rolls batteries and the price scared me off. I was getting ready for a trip to Mexico and had already spent about 5k. I went with two Trojan 8Ds, bought thru a trucking parts store, (cheaper by far than West Marine). However, I'm wondering if I'm getting the performance I should. At only 150 A/Hs down, the voltage is 12.2. I think it should be up closer to 12.5 or so, but no one can give me a straight answer about it, even when all conditions are optimal; new batts, being fully charged, shore charger, big alternator, smart regulator, etc.
Bruce; I looked at Rolls batteries and the price scared me off. I was getting ready for a trip to Mexico and had already spent about 5k. I went with two Trojan 8Ds, bought thru a trucking parts store, (cheaper by far than West Marine). However, I'm wondering if I'm getting the performance I should. At only 150 A/Hs down, the voltage is 12.2. I think it should be up closer to 12.5 or so, but no one can give me a straight answer about it, even when all conditions are optimal; new batts, being fully charged, shore charger, big alternator, smart regulator, etc.
On our P42
we also have lots of stuff. I went with AGM on my last change because of the high AH compared to Gels. The new Rolls were on the list but were pretty pricey when the hydrocaps were added in. As you know, checking water on the 42 is not a fun task. I have a 270W solar array so my discharge levels are fairly low and I expect to get a lot of cycles out of the Lifeline batteries.
we also have lots of stuff. I went with AGM on my last change because of the high AH compared to Gels. The new Rolls were on the list but were pretty pricey when the hydrocaps were added in. As you know, checking water on the 42 is not a fun task. I have a 270W solar array so my discharge levels are fairly low and I expect to get a lot of cycles out of the Lifeline batteries.
Local battery shop
When I repowered, I bought mine at the local battery shop at a fraction of what WM charges. And they're EXACTLY the same batteries!! Shop around, especially when that much is involved. LaDonna
When I repowered, I bought mine at the local battery shop at a fraction of what WM charges. And they're EXACTLY the same batteries!! Shop around, especially when that much is involved. LaDonna
Information
Larry, I have been looking for a battery monitor. The Link 20 is one of them. Online is the owners manual. It is pretty comprehensive about % of charge and voltages, if you are still interested. good luck, Mike D
Larry, I have been looking for a battery monitor. The Link 20 is one of them. Online is the owners manual. It is pretty comprehensive about % of charge and voltages, if you are still interested. good luck, Mike D
I like AGMs
I prefer AGMs over Gels. With Gel Cells you need to be more careful with the voltage when recharging. Definitely requires a smart regulator. AGMs take the same voltage as lead-acid. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
I prefer AGMs over Gels. With Gel Cells you need to be more careful with the voltage when recharging. Definitely requires a smart regulator. AGMs take the same voltage as lead-acid. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
If I wanted the best bang for the buck, low on
funds and not afraid of checking the water levels once in a while, I would go for the wet cell. If there was room and you really wanted the most for your $ I would get the Golf Cart Battery. Long Lived, Cheap, rugged. If I wanted the best, was going off-shore (think inverted?) and never want to worry about them then I would go for the AGM. One benefit of the Wet Cells that are often overlooked is even if you mistakenly "over charge" (thus "boil" out the electrolyte) you can still replenish the Wet cell batteries. If you do that with Gell or AGM's...then they are shot for good. ps. if you are concerned about the batteries sitting idle over the winter , you can use the savings that you got purchasing the wet cell batteries and get a small solar panel for keeping the batteries topped off.
funds and not afraid of checking the water levels once in a while, I would go for the wet cell. If there was room and you really wanted the most for your $ I would get the Golf Cart Battery. Long Lived, Cheap, rugged. If I wanted the best, was going off-shore (think inverted?) and never want to worry about them then I would go for the AGM. One benefit of the Wet Cells that are often overlooked is even if you mistakenly "over charge" (thus "boil" out the electrolyte) you can still replenish the Wet cell batteries. If you do that with Gell or AGM's...then they are shot for good. ps. if you are concerned about the batteries sitting idle over the winter , you can use the savings that you got purchasing the wet cell batteries and get a small solar panel for keeping the batteries topped off.
Personal Experience.
Bruce: I have had all three and could not agree more. Unless your batteries are extremely easy to inspect and you are religious about battery maintenance Gel and AGM technology is the only way to go. We got 10+ years out of our West Marine Gels (Group 31's). You will hear stories about sailors that have gotten 5-8 years from flooded batteries but I bet this is the exception rather than the rule. I was at the Pacific Sail Expo this week and there was a battery guy there that has 6 volt Gels for $165 each. Two of these will give you 185 amps @ 12V for $330. I would assume that you could get better prices for a larger purchase. This may be an option to look at. Some of the advantages are the fact that you are only dealing with a 70# battery rather than a 130# (4D) or 160# (8D) too. The two 6V gels are just about equal in power to the 4D's and probably cost less with a comparable foot print. I do not think that any one battery is really that much better over the winter than the other, assuming you start with a fully charged battery in the fall. I suppose that the Gel and AGM are going to hold their charge slightly longer. You are probably in an area where you do not have access to power during the winter? The jury is still out on AGM technology as far as total life. I am using these on my boat and will have a better idea in the next couple of years. You also need to consider that you have the correct charger if you are going to use Gel or AGM batteries. The Xantrex (formerly Statpower) 40 Plus Smart Charger is an excellent choice for your size bank. I think you are wise getting some input on this issue. This is a lot of money to spend on something if you DO not make the correct decision. I would rely more on opinions of sailor that keep their boats in your type of climate too.
Bruce: I have had all three and could not agree more. Unless your batteries are extremely easy to inspect and you are religious about battery maintenance Gel and AGM technology is the only way to go. We got 10+ years out of our West Marine Gels (Group 31's). You will hear stories about sailors that have gotten 5-8 years from flooded batteries but I bet this is the exception rather than the rule. I was at the Pacific Sail Expo this week and there was a battery guy there that has 6 volt Gels for $165 each. Two of these will give you 185 amps @ 12V for $330. I would assume that you could get better prices for a larger purchase. This may be an option to look at. Some of the advantages are the fact that you are only dealing with a 70# battery rather than a 130# (4D) or 160# (8D) too. The two 6V gels are just about equal in power to the 4D's and probably cost less with a comparable foot print. I do not think that any one battery is really that much better over the winter than the other, assuming you start with a fully charged battery in the fall. I suppose that the Gel and AGM are going to hold their charge slightly longer. You are probably in an area where you do not have access to power during the winter? The jury is still out on AGM technology as far as total life. I am using these on my boat and will have a better idea in the next couple of years. You also need to consider that you have the correct charger if you are going to use Gel or AGM batteries. The Xantrex (formerly Statpower) 40 Plus Smart Charger is an excellent choice for your size bank. I think you are wise getting some input on this issue. This is a lot of money to spend on something if you DO not make the correct decision. I would rely more on opinions of sailor that keep their boats in your type of climate too.
Bruce, please send me your email address
Your old email I had for you at infores doesn't work anymore. My NEW email is grstidge@localnet.com BTW, I can't really help you on your battery choice. I am a firm believer in golf cart batteries for highest overall performance per $$ and ease of handling. The AGM & Gel cell may have a longer life, but if anything goes wrong with your charging system or if the batteries are somehow mis-treated, you have an expensive battery loss on your hands. In order to reap the benefits of the more expensive batteries, they MUST have the longer life. I'm not sure that is a good risk. Also, regarding the Rolls batteries with individual replaceable cells- sounds like a good idea, but other than infant-life mortality or an accident of some sort, the likelyhood of having to replace one or two cells is low. And even if you do replace a cell, I'm not sure that it is a great idea to have a new higher-capacity cell in series with older cells that have lost a little of their capacity. Rich
Your old email I had for you at infores doesn't work anymore. My NEW email is grstidge@localnet.com BTW, I can't really help you on your battery choice. I am a firm believer in golf cart batteries for highest overall performance per $$ and ease of handling. The AGM & Gel cell may have a longer life, but if anything goes wrong with your charging system or if the batteries are somehow mis-treated, you have an expensive battery loss on your hands. In order to reap the benefits of the more expensive batteries, they MUST have the longer life. I'm not sure that is a good risk. Also, regarding the Rolls batteries with individual replaceable cells- sounds like a good idea, but other than infant-life mortality or an accident of some sort, the likelyhood of having to replace one or two cells is low. And even if you do replace a cell, I'm not sure that it is a great idea to have a new higher-capacity cell in series with older cells that have lost a little of their capacity. Rich
My policy
I have a C-36. 1. Golf cart batteries. They don't fit. I would have to significantly modify the boat to fit them. Also, they are (I think) typically available in 6 volt arrangements, so as batteries fail, one doesn't have integral multiples of 12 V to work with. For small numbers of batteries (<6), this is important (to me). 2. Battery freshness is of paramount importance. You don't want batteries that have been sitting on the shelf. 3. Availability. I want a battery that I can acquire easily. I think flooded are still fairly universal. I don't think my smart chargers/regualtors support allow multiple battery technologies. Conclusion - I bought the highest capacity (Amp hours) deep cycle flooded batteries that would fit from a local Wal_Mart. I have two, and they are 115 AH, I think. These are the freshest, best bang for the buck available anywhare. I got the biggest marine starting/cranking battery that would fit as my engine battery. I think I spent about $200 total. See the link for the best on-line source of battery info. jv
I have a C-36. 1. Golf cart batteries. They don't fit. I would have to significantly modify the boat to fit them. Also, they are (I think) typically available in 6 volt arrangements, so as batteries fail, one doesn't have integral multiples of 12 V to work with. For small numbers of batteries (<6), this is important (to me). 2. Battery freshness is of paramount importance. You don't want batteries that have been sitting on the shelf. 3. Availability. I want a battery that I can acquire easily. I think flooded are still fairly universal. I don't think my smart chargers/regualtors support allow multiple battery technologies. Conclusion - I bought the highest capacity (Amp hours) deep cycle flooded batteries that would fit from a local Wal_Mart. I have two, and they are 115 AH, I think. These are the freshest, best bang for the buck available anywhare. I got the biggest marine starting/cranking battery that would fit as my engine battery. I think I spent about $200 total. See the link for the best on-line source of battery info. jv
Savonius Rotor
I have two Rolls 4Ds and a Grp. 30, lead acid. Despite all the inconvenience of topping up, I would stick with the wet cell batteries. They will take more abuse and come roaring back. Moreover, their self discharge rate was low enough so that after four months disconnected with no charge in the boat, they show 12.5 volts. As for winter trickle charge, Jack Rabbit Marine offers a tiny Savonius rotor wind generator designed for just that job. Won't get buried under snow.
I have two Rolls 4Ds and a Grp. 30, lead acid. Despite all the inconvenience of topping up, I would stick with the wet cell batteries. They will take more abuse and come roaring back. Moreover, their self discharge rate was low enough so that after four months disconnected with no charge in the boat, they show 12.5 volts. As for winter trickle charge, Jack Rabbit Marine offers a tiny Savonius rotor wind generator designed for just that job. Won't get buried under snow.
Wet
I agree with the majority of comments that the wet type give you more for the money. I have seen failed gels probably due to owner negligence.
I agree with the majority of comments that the wet type give you more for the money. I have seen failed gels probably due to owner negligence.
On the P42 ...
Battery maintenance is a matter of trying to balance a flashlight and mirror to see into the cells and a turkey baster to add water. I cannot speak for other battery locations but on this boat the design is one that discourages proper maintenance of wet cells, at least it was for me. That is why I recommend Gels or AGMs when someone asks about the P42. AGMs will also accept a higher charge current if one has the capacity to provide it which results in shorter period for running the genset with an inverter/charger or engine with a large capacity alternator and smart regulator. It's really a good idea to look at all of the parts as a system and build it as such.
Battery maintenance is a matter of trying to balance a flashlight and mirror to see into the cells and a turkey baster to add water. I cannot speak for other battery locations but on this boat the design is one that discourages proper maintenance of wet cells, at least it was for me. That is why I recommend Gels or AGMs when someone asks about the P42. AGMs will also accept a higher charge current if one has the capacity to provide it which results in shorter period for running the genset with an inverter/charger or engine with a large capacity alternator and smart regulator. It's really a good idea to look at all of the parts as a system and build it as such.
Boat Designer Must Have Been From Detroit!
Who else would design a boat so you couldn't access critical areas for routine maintenance?!! Just had to say it! After reading your post I would agree that if it's that difficult to access batteries so one can add distilled water then something other than wet is probably desirable. I haven't used them, but, have you considered those battery caps that are supposed to convert H2 back into water and reduce battery electrolyte consumption? If they work that might be another option. Won't eliminate the need to add water but would reduce the need. As for longevity of 'carts, mine will be 9 and 8 years old this summer and bank #1 is 12.42 and #2 is 12.55 volts. They sit idle for at least six months every year and as measured they weren't totally topped off the last time they were charged. Measured voltage is 24+ hours after being charged. Haven't equalized them for a year. Starting to wonder about when I should get new ones.
Who else would design a boat so you couldn't access critical areas for routine maintenance?!! Just had to say it! After reading your post I would agree that if it's that difficult to access batteries so one can add distilled water then something other than wet is probably desirable. I haven't used them, but, have you considered those battery caps that are supposed to convert H2 back into water and reduce battery electrolyte consumption? If they work that might be another option. Won't eliminate the need to add water but would reduce the need. As for longevity of 'carts, mine will be 9 and 8 years old this summer and bank #1 is 12.42 and #2 is 12.55 volts. They sit idle for at least six months every year and as measured they weren't totally topped off the last time they were charged. Measured voltage is 24+ hours after being charged. Haven't equalized them for a year. Starting to wonder about when I should get new ones.
My problem with wet cell batteries is I am away from my boat for 6 months at a time. When I get back my wet batteries are shot. I finally got wise and bought a gel cell and a small solar panel. For over 3 and 1/2 years I have had no problems. Gel cells while being more expensive are far cheaper in the long run.
AGM/wet/gel
I recently attended a seminar on boat maint. given by the head mechanic at my marina. (Pilots Point) This yard is guite large and services everything from day sailors to mega-yaghts. He made the comment that wet cells gas and thus are an explosive hazard. ( in my 15 years of sailing I have never heard of this occurance) Gel cells were too fragile according to him and thus were to prone to failure. His choice was AGM due to the way they were built and safty reasons plus the no maint. made them the best choice. ( I use flooded)
I recently attended a seminar on boat maint. given by the head mechanic at my marina. (Pilots Point) This yard is guite large and services everything from day sailors to mega-yaghts. He made the comment that wet cells gas and thus are an explosive hazard. ( in my 15 years of sailing I have never heard of this occurance) Gel cells were too fragile according to him and thus were to prone to failure. His choice was AGM due to the way they were built and safty reasons plus the no maint. made them the best choice. ( I use flooded)
Here's more...
...information for you! The Interstate Batteries site also has some good info for you to consider. I've enclosed the link below...
...information for you! The Interstate Batteries site also has some good info for you to consider. I've enclosed the link below...
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