Hi All – I wanted seek some battery advice from the group here and I know there are a ton of directions I could go with this - just looking for some basic and directional advice and would love to see how others have their house-bank designed. My Catalina 30 came with an old-tired Group 27 115 Amp deep cycle in one bank along with a separate starting battery / bank. Both batteries are wet-cells. This year the G27 deep cycle (my house battery) finally died – she was about 10 years old and when I bought the boat 4 years ago it was already abused so I know I was on borrowed time (sat for over a year and several cells were dry). At the time, the boat did not have a whole lot of electrical needs so it was OK for the first few years to run the lights and wind-instrumentation (once I brought it back to life – and it tested as good to weak on a tester). I also installed a 30 Amp 3-stage charger and have access to shore power at my dock. So now I have the following electrical needs to consider when looking for a replacement for my house bank: - All the standard lighting a 30 footer would have - GPS Chart plotter (color) - Stereo system (AM/FM/CD player) - Fresh water pump and macerator - Bilge pumps, VHF, etc - Wind Instuemnets and Depth Finder - 1.7 Cubic Foot Refrigerator (smallest marine one they make – adding that next year / draws 2.7 amps) As mentioned above – I have shore power and use a 30 amp 3-stage charger (3-bank capability). My electrical uses are conservative – I never leave the instruments and GPS on after sailing, keep a battery-powered lantern onboard to conserve the cabin lighting and typically never have the stereo on too loud. Next year, I want to add a very small refrigerator that draws 2.7 amps. I also have a Yanmar Diesel with your standard marine alternator (not sure the amps but assume its your standard marine alternator). We typically do a lot of weekend sailing (1-2 nights on the hook), day sailing and maybe 1 or possibly 2: week-long trips a year all on the hook (at best). I am planning on keeping the wet-cell starting battery bank as she tests and works fine. I am thinking of putting in a 240 AH deep-cell bank for the house (two 110 AH paralleled). On the Catalina 30 (it’s a ’78) – space is tight so I figure I am better with 2 separate batteries for the house bank that I could parallel. I will need to have the second battery installed under the quarter berth next to the fuel tank as there is not enough room in the battery storage locker under my nav table. My questions are as following and hoping you all could help direct me: -Should I go with wet-cell, Gel-Cell or AGM for the house bank? I don’t have a problem checking the fluid levels once a month in the wet cells but what is the best value for the money here with the most power? As mentioned, I have shore power so charging is not an issue. -If I went with Gel / AGM – could I mix banks? The starting bank is a wet-cell. -Am I under powered with 240 AH? Probably fine without the refrigerator….not sure though. Also – if I went with the gel/AGM bank – do you typically use lower a lower amp bank verses the wet-cell bank as you don't want to ever to a deep discharge below 50%? -Does anyone have a good online source for batteries that deliver? I found Cabela’s online selling an AGM group 27 $155 (marine cranking amps= 1200, cold cranking =950 and reserve =180 –so I guess it’s a 180 Amp battery)- not sure how good they are for sailboat applications buts it says deep cell. West Marine seems a bit pricy. Here is the link: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=search&id=0041060016446a&navCount=1&podId=0041060&parentId=cat350007&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IH&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat350007&hasJS=true -Anything else I am missing here? I don’t have a regulator or any other battery devices hooked up to my system. I do have your standard battery selector switch (“1”, “2” or Both) with a volt meter on the panel. -Any recommendations on where best to install the house bank with regard to space. Thanks and really appreciate the feedback here! - Rob
Battery Question - House Bank
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Lot's of info Rob. Thanks for that.
As such, I can keep this simple. Never mix battery types. Best dollar value; Golfs. AGM; easiest to install and no maintenance. Make sure your new charger supports AGM's if you go that way. As far as capacity, you know your usage best. Do an audit to determine your requirements. See? simple.
As such, I can keep this simple. Never mix battery types. Best dollar value; Golfs. AGM; easiest to install and no maintenance. Make sure your new charger supports AGM's if you go that way. As far as capacity, you know your usage best. Do an audit to determine your requirements. See? simple.
Mixing
Fred - do you mean mixing battery types within the same bank or from bank one (starter) to bank two (house bank). My situation I may have a wet-cell starter in bank one....then the gel/AGMs in bank two....is that no-no? Thanks - Rob
Fred - do you mean mixing battery types within the same bank or from bank one (starter) to bank two (house bank). My situation I may have a wet-cell starter in bank one....then the gel/AGMs in bank two....is that no-no? Thanks - Rob
I'm In The Same Boat
Rob, Fred is right, It is best to not mix battery types. I know it is possible to set up two separate charging circuit types off of a high output alternator using the Balmar Max Charge and separate Duo Charge. I just installed this on my boat. The catch is that my three stage shore charger can charge three separate banks but they must be the same type of battery (all AGM's wet cells, etc). I think there is a way to hook the shore charger through the Duo Charge and have different types, but I have not looked into this. I am also in the process of adding more batteries. From what I understand, it is best to keep each bank as close together as possible. It is also best for overall battery life to use only one house bank if possible, keeping it larger vs two smaller house banks and one starting bank. In my case the house bank will be separated by about 8' as I cannot keep them together. I have been using 2 6v golfs and found them to be the most economical. Will add two more as I also just installed refrigeration. This size bank for my usage and needs is the minimal recommendation. The charging connections for each bank should be connected across the whole bank. In other words the negative connection will be on one section of the split bank and the positive on the other creating a full loop across both split banks.
Rob, Fred is right, It is best to not mix battery types. I know it is possible to set up two separate charging circuit types off of a high output alternator using the Balmar Max Charge and separate Duo Charge. I just installed this on my boat. The catch is that my three stage shore charger can charge three separate banks but they must be the same type of battery (all AGM's wet cells, etc). I think there is a way to hook the shore charger through the Duo Charge and have different types, but I have not looked into this. I am also in the process of adding more batteries. From what I understand, it is best to keep each bank as close together as possible. It is also best for overall battery life to use only one house bank if possible, keeping it larger vs two smaller house banks and one starting bank. In my case the house bank will be separated by about 8' as I cannot keep them together. I have been using 2 6v golfs and found them to be the most economical. Will add two more as I also just installed refrigeration. This size bank for my usage and needs is the minimal recommendation. The charging connections for each bank should be connected across the whole bank. In other words the negative connection will be on one section of the split bank and the positive on the other creating a full loop across both split banks.
Gels and AGM are not the same type of battery.
That's what I was referring to. You'll be OK with batteries that differ from bank to bank as long as your charger supports the installed types.
That's what I was referring to. You'll be OK with batteries that differ from bank to bank as long as your charger supports the installed types.
Yes, you can use the Duo Charger with the shore
charger as well as the alternator. Just don't connect the bank 2 output from the shore charger. That way the Duo Charge will steal power from the charge going to the house bank until the start bank is charged. Then you can set the shore charger/alternator regulator for the chemistry of the house bank and the Duo Charge for the chemistry of the start bank. -Smitty
charger as well as the alternator. Just don't connect the bank 2 output from the shore charger. That way the Duo Charge will steal power from the charge going to the house bank until the start bank is charged. Then you can set the shore charger/alternator regulator for the chemistry of the house bank and the Duo Charge for the chemistry of the start bank. -Smitty
A couple of comments...
1. That Group 27 battery doesn't have a 180 amp-hour capacity - Group 27 has an average capacity somewhere around 85 amp-hours. I believe you were probably looking at the 'reserve capacity', which is actually the number of minutes that the battery can deliver 25 amps before it is completely discharged - the standard is 10.5 volts. 2. If you are putting several batteries in parallel in one bank, then they should be located as close as possible to each other. The longer the cables between them, the more voltage difference, and that will cause problems. In general terms, you want them as close as possible, even touching. 3. Since you have space constraints, you'll want to get all the battery capacity you can fit, and THEN work out your consumption and re-charging profiles. You'll probably find 240 amp-hours to be difficult to fit in your boat, so whatever you do end up with, work with it, conserve where possible, and charge when needed. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
1. That Group 27 battery doesn't have a 180 amp-hour capacity - Group 27 has an average capacity somewhere around 85 amp-hours. I believe you were probably looking at the 'reserve capacity', which is actually the number of minutes that the battery can deliver 25 amps before it is completely discharged - the standard is 10.5 volts. 2. If you are putting several batteries in parallel in one bank, then they should be located as close as possible to each other. The longer the cables between them, the more voltage difference, and that will cause problems. In general terms, you want them as close as possible, even touching. 3. Since you have space constraints, you'll want to get all the battery capacity you can fit, and THEN work out your consumption and re-charging profiles. You'll probably find 240 amp-hours to be difficult to fit in your boat, so whatever you do end up with, work with it, conserve where possible, and charge when needed. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
Do a google for marine batterys
I just did a google for marine batterys, the info available is tremendous !
I just did a google for marine batterys, the info available is tremendous !
my setup
Rob, as others have said, it is best to keep both banks the same type. Most chargers and alternators have one setting and unless you add more components which can be hard to troubleshoot when you have a problem, keep it simple. On my boat, have have 2 group 27 wets for starter and 4 trojan wets for house. I just upgraded the wiring this week-end for the house to the proper ABY specification and added a fuse per code. My startewrs are located in the original spot in the cockpit locker and the trojans are under the seats in the salon. This provides me 440 ah for house which is good for a couple of days on the hook, being somewhat conservative with lights, stereo, refrig, etc.
Rob, as others have said, it is best to keep both banks the same type. Most chargers and alternators have one setting and unless you add more components which can be hard to troubleshoot when you have a problem, keep it simple. On my boat, have have 2 group 27 wets for starter and 4 trojan wets for house. I just upgraded the wiring this week-end for the house to the proper ABY specification and added a fuse per code. My startewrs are located in the original spot in the cockpit locker and the trojans are under the seats in the salon. This provides me 440 ah for house which is good for a couple of days on the hook, being somewhat conservative with lights, stereo, refrig, etc.
what its worth
I am replacing my two 4D floods with AGM's. I have a flood starter battery on a bank 2 which is never used, its is there just in case. It posed the question of having the two different banks, (charger can handle 3 banks)one having a small flood, the other a large AGM, to both the battery manufacturer and the charger manufacturer. The repsonse form both was that all should be OK, suprise. My charger, a Charles 5000 30 amp supplies a 14.5 bulk and a 13.6 float charge and he was concerned about being to high for the AGM's and the need to adjust the charger down, while the battery manufacturer said they bulk charge at 14.6-14.8 and float at 13.6. I have no intention of running the selector on "both" so I am not concerened with the alternator dealing with both. Probably the next concern would be the alternators ability to handle AGM's as they accept the charge much quicker than floods and if you are trying to put a lot of charge with a small alt into AGM's you could have a overheat issue with the alt. It looks as if you have plenty of electric sucking Caca (me to) so my recomendation would be to get as many amp hrs as will fit. The less deep the discharge the longer the batteries will last, but the discharge should exceed 10%. I will typically use 15-20% on an over night.
I am replacing my two 4D floods with AGM's. I have a flood starter battery on a bank 2 which is never used, its is there just in case. It posed the question of having the two different banks, (charger can handle 3 banks)one having a small flood, the other a large AGM, to both the battery manufacturer and the charger manufacturer. The repsonse form both was that all should be OK, suprise. My charger, a Charles 5000 30 amp supplies a 14.5 bulk and a 13.6 float charge and he was concerned about being to high for the AGM's and the need to adjust the charger down, while the battery manufacturer said they bulk charge at 14.6-14.8 and float at 13.6. I have no intention of running the selector on "both" so I am not concerened with the alternator dealing with both. Probably the next concern would be the alternators ability to handle AGM's as they accept the charge much quicker than floods and if you are trying to put a lot of charge with a small alt into AGM's you could have a overheat issue with the alt. It looks as if you have plenty of electric sucking Caca (me to) so my recomendation would be to get as many amp hrs as will fit. The less deep the discharge the longer the batteries will last, but the discharge should exceed 10%. I will typically use 15-20% on an over night.
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