Jim, I have used my 29.5 for 3+ seasons now and have just installed my 3rd battery. The boat is connected to shore power (120V,30A) during the week. I use the battery to start the engine to leave and return to the dock and to power the VHF, instruments and stereo when on the water. Batteries have been removed each winter and trickle charged while off the boat. Water is added as required. What is wrong with this picture? Why is this charger apparently destroying batteries at a rapid clip? Ed Collins
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Just the facts man, just the facts.
Ed: I think we need to get some facts here. First what type of batteries and what type of battery charger. Are the batteries using much water? With this info you will get some help.
Ed: I think we need to get some facts here. First what type of batteries and what type of battery charger. Are the batteries using much water? With this info you will get some help.
Short lived batteries
You say that you put the batteries on a trickle charger all winter while they are off the boat. I believe this is overkill in fact I feel it will destroy your batteries. I do not leave my batteries on a trickle charger all winter but top them off every few weeks. If the batteries are in good condition to start with, do not store them on concrete floor, then they should not be continuously trickle charged. My batteries last several years. I leave them in the boat without the shore power connected (no battery charger connected full time) for weeks at a time. You shoul measure the float voltage and see if it is excessive from your battery charger.
You say that you put the batteries on a trickle charger all winter while they are off the boat. I believe this is overkill in fact I feel it will destroy your batteries. I do not leave my batteries on a trickle charger all winter but top them off every few weeks. If the batteries are in good condition to start with, do not store them on concrete floor, then they should not be continuously trickle charged. My batteries last several years. I leave them in the boat without the shore power connected (no battery charger connected full time) for weeks at a time. You shoul measure the float voltage and see if it is excessive from your battery charger.
The Facts
Steve & Wayne, Thanks for your input. The charger is a Dytek (I think that's the name. It's OEM equipment with the 1996 Hunter 29.5) It is rated at 120V input and is supposed to produce 12VDC. There is no AMP rating that I can find on it. The batteries are Marine Deep Cycle wet cell batteries. They do require water added about every 3 weeks, but usually just to top off the cells. Rarely, the cells require more than that as the top of some of the plates is exposed. During the winter, I trickle charge intermittently, i.e. one week on, three weeks off. The battery is sitting on a concrete floor during the winter in my cellar. I will measure the output voltage this weekend and will post another message afterwards. Any more ideas? Thanks, Ed
Steve & Wayne, Thanks for your input. The charger is a Dytek (I think that's the name. It's OEM equipment with the 1996 Hunter 29.5) It is rated at 120V input and is supposed to produce 12VDC. There is no AMP rating that I can find on it. The batteries are Marine Deep Cycle wet cell batteries. They do require water added about every 3 weeks, but usually just to top off the cells. Rarely, the cells require more than that as the top of some of the plates is exposed. During the winter, I trickle charge intermittently, i.e. one week on, three weeks off. The battery is sitting on a concrete floor during the winter in my cellar. I will measure the output voltage this weekend and will post another message afterwards. Any more ideas? Thanks, Ed
Thirsty Fellas
It sounds like you need to add a lot of water!! I suspect that your charger voltage is too high, you may also try putting a timer on your charger too limit the charging time.
It sounds like you need to add a lot of water!! I suspect that your charger voltage is too high, you may also try putting a timer on your charger too limit the charging time.
Proper charger?
Ed, What kind of charger are you using? A reqular car battery charger will kill batteries quickly on a boat. Charging at a high constant rate fries the plates. You need a marine type such as a Guest that charges in three stages. I just replaced my first battery on my 1994 29.5. The second battery is still running after 5 years. Monty
Ed, What kind of charger are you using? A reqular car battery charger will kill batteries quickly on a boat. Charging at a high constant rate fries the plates. You need a marine type such as a Guest that charges in three stages. I just replaced my first battery on my 1994 29.5. The second battery is still running after 5 years. Monty
Concrete Floor? Ouch!
You'd be much better off leaving the batteries in the boat than on concrete. There is such an affinity between the strong acid in the battery and the strong alkalai of the concrete that it will kill it. New thin walled batteries are worse than the old thick rubber cases. Sit them on at least 2" of wood or plastic. Deep cycle batteries have large electrolyte resivoirs, so having to add water every 3 weeks sounds excessive too. The charger should be the type that charges then turns off...... not trickle charge. Batteries should be good for 5 years which would free up some money for a spinaker! Ken S/V Wouff Hong
You'd be much better off leaving the batteries in the boat than on concrete. There is such an affinity between the strong acid in the battery and the strong alkalai of the concrete that it will kill it. New thin walled batteries are worse than the old thick rubber cases. Sit them on at least 2" of wood or plastic. Deep cycle batteries have large electrolyte resivoirs, so having to add water every 3 weeks sounds excessive too. The charger should be the type that charges then turns off...... not trickle charge. Batteries should be good for 5 years which would free up some money for a spinaker! Ken S/V Wouff Hong
29.5 Battery Charger
I have a '95 29.5 and probably have the same charger. It is a Dytek 10 amp unit which charges batteries with a relatively high voltage with float charge capability which kicks in when batteries reach a specific voltage. I was given no info on it by the dealer or in the OEM equipment documentation supplied by Hunter, but I contacted Hunter Customer Service, who faxed me the literature they had. It would not be suitable for gel or AGM batteries, because it's not a true multi-stage charger. It sounds like your charger isn't kicking into float charge mode. For what it's worth, I still have one original battery in fine shape. I replaced the other one last year (it was in good shape, but I wanted a Group 30 for my house battery).
I have a '95 29.5 and probably have the same charger. It is a Dytek 10 amp unit which charges batteries with a relatively high voltage with float charge capability which kicks in when batteries reach a specific voltage. I was given no info on it by the dealer or in the OEM equipment documentation supplied by Hunter, but I contacted Hunter Customer Service, who faxed me the literature they had. It would not be suitable for gel or AGM batteries, because it's not a true multi-stage charger. It sounds like your charger isn't kicking into float charge mode. For what it's worth, I still have one original battery in fine shape. I replaced the other one last year (it was in good shape, but I wanted a Group 30 for my house battery).
After all is said and done.
Ed: Once you decide what is the cause of your problem you can proceed from there. I noticed that you only mentioned only one battery (if I read this correctly). I would recommend that you have another battery if for nothing else other than a backup, in case of failure etc, etc. IMHO gell cells are the way to go. I have had 2 of my 3 batteries on board since May 1990 and they are still going strong. I added the third battery 3 years ago when I installed by refrigeration unit. These batteries need no maintenance and they can be left in the basement for the winter without charging (but not on the floor either). They are more expensive than a quality wet cell, but they do last. The AMP ratings on these are less than a wet cell too. They are also suppose to be charged different from the wet cell. The plus is no maintenance, no acid spills, they can work on their side too and a lower cost of ownership over their life. The down side is the lower amp rating, high initial cost and they require a more precise recharging regement. The first thing you need to do is find out the source of your problem. Either the winter charging or the charger in the boat is my best guess. Good luck
Ed: Once you decide what is the cause of your problem you can proceed from there. I noticed that you only mentioned only one battery (if I read this correctly). I would recommend that you have another battery if for nothing else other than a backup, in case of failure etc, etc. IMHO gell cells are the way to go. I have had 2 of my 3 batteries on board since May 1990 and they are still going strong. I added the third battery 3 years ago when I installed by refrigeration unit. These batteries need no maintenance and they can be left in the basement for the winter without charging (but not on the floor either). They are more expensive than a quality wet cell, but they do last. The AMP ratings on these are less than a wet cell too. They are also suppose to be charged different from the wet cell. The plus is no maintenance, no acid spills, they can work on their side too and a lower cost of ownership over their life. The down side is the lower amp rating, high initial cost and they require a more precise recharging regement. The first thing you need to do is find out the source of your problem. Either the winter charging or the charger in the boat is my best guess. Good luck
Marine battery
Years ago, I use to buy a regular car battery not the kind for charging on a boat. Recommend batteries with deep cycle capabilities
Years ago, I use to buy a regular car battery not the kind for charging on a boat. Recommend batteries with deep cycle capabilities
Question for EE
I had to replace one of the batteries on our 29.5 in the first 3 yrs. The failed battery (Grp 25) got overcooked either from lack of water being added (my fault) or the charger not going to float mode. Question for Elec. Engineers (EEs)- Could a low amperage or low voltage on the shorepower circuit cause a "smart charger" or auto-float charger to over charge a battery? If so, that could have been the problem(s). Either way-Concrete floors and batteries do not make a nice marriage. Thanks for the previous response, I understand why now! PS-upgraded to a group 27 battery when I replaced the cooked one (you will smell the rotten egg). A few bucks more for a lot more battery!
I had to replace one of the batteries on our 29.5 in the first 3 yrs. The failed battery (Grp 25) got overcooked either from lack of water being added (my fault) or the charger not going to float mode. Question for Elec. Engineers (EEs)- Could a low amperage or low voltage on the shorepower circuit cause a "smart charger" or auto-float charger to over charge a battery? If so, that could have been the problem(s). Either way-Concrete floors and batteries do not make a nice marriage. Thanks for the previous response, I understand why now! PS-upgraded to a group 27 battery when I replaced the cooked one (you will smell the rotten egg). A few bucks more for a lot more battery!
Answer from EE
OK, I'll be the resident EE. No, I don't think low AC voltage could cause what you described. You might try taking your battery to an automotive shop that has one of those impressive electronic battery testers that looks at the battery's charge holding capability. I have a 29.5 and have not seen any of the problems described. It's possible, though, that if the electrolyte level got low at some point enough to allow the plates to warp, that your battery will never be able to hold a charge. I had this happen to a car battery in my youth. When you have the shore power connected, and the battery charger going, try turning on the batteries and the DC switch, and see what the voltage gauge on the panel says. That will let you know if the charger is putting out the voltage it should. It's possible that the charger isn't doing its job, in which case you might be recharging only while motoring, and if your usage is high (you mentioned a stereo), the batteries may be insufficiently charging. Wet cells like to be fully recharged between uses.
OK, I'll be the resident EE. No, I don't think low AC voltage could cause what you described. You might try taking your battery to an automotive shop that has one of those impressive electronic battery testers that looks at the battery's charge holding capability. I have a 29.5 and have not seen any of the problems described. It's possible, though, that if the electrolyte level got low at some point enough to allow the plates to warp, that your battery will never be able to hold a charge. I had this happen to a car battery in my youth. When you have the shore power connected, and the battery charger going, try turning on the batteries and the DC switch, and see what the voltage gauge on the panel says. That will let you know if the charger is putting out the voltage it should. It's possible that the charger isn't doing its job, in which case you might be recharging only while motoring, and if your usage is high (you mentioned a stereo), the batteries may be insufficiently charging. Wet cells like to be fully recharged between uses.
More Facts
Thanks to all who have contributed insights. I added a very small volume of water to my new battery this weekend, about a thimble to each cell. With the charger on, I then measured 35 volts DC across the terminals. While my initial reaction was that this high level is the cause of my problem and that the charger is defective, I am wondering if the voltage increases when the charger senses that the battery needs active charging? I will check again next weekend to see if the 35V level is still there or if it has dropped to near 12V. Any thoughts? Ed
Thanks to all who have contributed insights. I added a very small volume of water to my new battery this weekend, about a thimble to each cell. With the charger on, I then measured 35 volts DC across the terminals. While my initial reaction was that this high level is the cause of my problem and that the charger is defective, I am wondering if the voltage increases when the charger senses that the battery needs active charging? I will check again next weekend to see if the 35V level is still there or if it has dropped to near 12V. Any thoughts? Ed
35V is too high
If you measured 35 Volts from the charger with the battery connected, the charger is definitely bad. However, I suspect you measured the charger voltage while it is was disconnected from the battery(load). So try measuring it while connected. It should range somewhere in the 13-16 volt range. Anything higher would be frying much more than the battery.
If you measured 35 Volts from the charger with the battery connected, the charger is definitely bad. However, I suspect you measured the charger voltage while it is was disconnected from the battery(load). So try measuring it while connected. It should range somewhere in the 13-16 volt range. Anything higher would be frying much more than the battery.
Check the charge
Depending on your charger , it should put between about 13.3V to 14.5V and no higher . 15v or more prolonged charging will damage your battery for shure!! Check with a good digital Voltmeter/Multitester
Depending on your charger , it should put between about 13.3V to 14.5V and no higher . 15v or more prolonged charging will damage your battery for shure!! Check with a good digital Voltmeter/Multitester
Follow-Up from the EE
Amplifying (excuse the pun!) Ed C's comments - The only way you could get 35 volts out of the charger is for it to be disconnected from the battery. You would then be measuring what we call a "no load" output. If you were getting this voltage and the charger was still connected to the batteries, then I'll bet that it isn't really connected - broken wire or something, and there's your problem (my first note suggested that you might really only be charging when running). Confirm this the way I suggested in my first note - with the charger on, switch on your battery bank and your DC main breaker. If your panel gauge says about 13.6, then you're right on the money. If it says something different from what you read with your voltmeter at the charger (like 35 volts), then you have a situation that is electrically impossible, unless the charger is not really making contact with the batteries. If all that checks, I suggest looking for something that might be draining your battery. Did somebody maybe hook something up directly to the battery leads or panel feed without going through a switch and breaker?
Amplifying (excuse the pun!) Ed C's comments - The only way you could get 35 volts out of the charger is for it to be disconnected from the battery. You would then be measuring what we call a "no load" output. If you were getting this voltage and the charger was still connected to the batteries, then I'll bet that it isn't really connected - broken wire or something, and there's your problem (my first note suggested that you might really only be charging when running). Confirm this the way I suggested in my first note - with the charger on, switch on your battery bank and your DC main breaker. If your panel gauge says about 13.6, then you're right on the money. If it says something different from what you read with your voltmeter at the charger (like 35 volts), then you have a situation that is electrically impossible, unless the charger is not really making contact with the batteries. If all that checks, I suggest looking for something that might be draining your battery. Did somebody maybe hook something up directly to the battery leads or panel feed without going through a switch and breaker?
Amplify X2
Let me amplify Gene's amplification. Although I am not familiar with your charger's specs, another possibility is that it has an at-the-battery voltage sensor that is not connected. If this is the case, the voltage will increase to the maximum of the unit's capability in order to overcome what it senses as voltage loss between the charger and the battery. The resulting 35 volt charge will quickly cook the battery. Robert Pancza
Let me amplify Gene's amplification. Although I am not familiar with your charger's specs, another possibility is that it has an at-the-battery voltage sensor that is not connected. If this is the case, the voltage will increase to the maximum of the unit's capability in order to overcome what it senses as voltage loss between the charger and the battery. The resulting 35 volt charge will quickly cook the battery. Robert Pancza
my two cents worth
I got this advice from a guy who works in a battery shop. I'm not an EE but I have to believe him since he works in the biz and I don't. 1) don't use deep cycle batteries to start your engine, it will fry them much sooner. Conversely, don't use a starting battery for your house system because . . . well, you know the answer by now. 2) don't mix battery sizes (group 27 with group 30, etc). I don't know why, I believe it has to do with charging.
I got this advice from a guy who works in a battery shop. I'm not an EE but I have to believe him since he works in the biz and I don't. 1) don't use deep cycle batteries to start your engine, it will fry them much sooner. Conversely, don't use a starting battery for your house system because . . . well, you know the answer by now. 2) don't mix battery sizes (group 27 with group 30, etc). I don't know why, I believe it has to do with charging.
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