OK all, this is turning into too much of a science project for me and I need Help! I have briefly read through most of the threads on batteries and chargers and I still do not have clear picture of what I need. I have a 2 house banks with 2 Trojan 125's each and one starter battery on my 1994 Legend 40.5. I also have a Honda EU 2000 generator for charging. I will be spending multiple weeks cruising without shore power and would like to keep the batteries topped up with a minimal amount of generator time. My current budget does not allow solar or wind power so this option is out. What is the best charger and size that will fit this bill? Oh ya, of course we need the hot water heater going too! Thanks Frank
Battery Chargers - Old Subject
- Thread starter Frank P
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1. combine your two house banks into one larger bank -- the same 4 batteries will last longer if you do that 2. with that size house bank, get a Truecharge 40 amp charger (Xantrex) 3. if your alternator is still going through your 1-2-B switch, move it to your house bank 4. install a combiner or better yet an echo charger to combine your start and house banks when charging
1. combine your two house banks into one larger bank -- the same 4 batteries will last longer if you do that 2. with that size house bank, get a Truecharge 40 amp charger (Xantrex) 3. if your alternator is still going through your 1-2-B switch, move it to your house bank 4. install a combiner or better yet an echo charger to combine your start and house banks when charging
AC Current Draw
Just to be sure, will my 2000W generator handel the load? How do I determine the max AC draw from the charger? Frank
Just to be sure, will my 2000W generator handel the load? How do I determine the max AC draw from the charger? Frank
Yes your Honda2000 will handle load...
When I plug the Honda2000 to the shore power outlet using the boat's battery charger I can see it charging over 75amps. I have 4 group27 (440amp/hrs).While charging I am able to run either the water heater OR the 110v coffee maker/grinder, but not both at the time. abe
When I plug the Honda2000 to the shore power outlet using the boat's battery charger I can see it charging over 75amps. I have 4 group27 (440amp/hrs).While charging I am able to run either the water heater OR the 110v coffee maker/grinder, but not both at the time. abe
second Stu's suggestions
Regarding batteries. We also have a 40.5 with seperate start battery and 4 - T125s in one bank which arguably minimizes the time between recharge. If you combine your 2 banks into one set of 4 batteries, you effectively increase the capacity thereby reducing the recharge interval or need to switch over to the other bank daily for recharge. Our Truecharge 40 has ample capacity to maintain all batteries properly. Get rid of the standard isolator and install a combiner or eco charger to make the start battery happier. Our experience has been that with both refrigerator and freezer running as well as the other stuff, we get 2 days+ on the hook before recharging is needed.
Regarding batteries. We also have a 40.5 with seperate start battery and 4 - T125s in one bank which arguably minimizes the time between recharge. If you combine your 2 banks into one set of 4 batteries, you effectively increase the capacity thereby reducing the recharge interval or need to switch over to the other bank daily for recharge. Our Truecharge 40 has ample capacity to maintain all batteries properly. Get rid of the standard isolator and install a combiner or eco charger to make the start battery happier. Our experience has been that with both refrigerator and freezer running as well as the other stuff, we get 2 days+ on the hook before recharging is needed.
Charging
Thanks Everyone, I always keep the house bank switch to "both" utilizing them as one bank. Is there a more efficient way of connecting them? Also, I have not yet dug into the current installation, I only know it is original equipment and I am sure it's not a 40A unit. Do you typically need to increase the wiring? Frank
Thanks Everyone, I always keep the house bank switch to "both" utilizing them as one bank. Is there a more efficient way of connecting them? Also, I have not yet dug into the current installation, I only know it is original equipment and I am sure it's not a 40A unit. Do you typically need to increase the wiring? Frank
Go with at least 8 guage for 40 amps
Frank, A dual charger rated at 40 amps will supply a max of 40 amps to one battery or 40 amps in any combination between the 2 that you connect. If your battery 1 is really low and it hogs all the current from the charger, it will take the 40 amps by itself. So, you have to size the wires for each battery so that it handles the max current from the charger. I would use an 8 guage wire unless the wire is really short - then I might go with 10 guage.
Frank, A dual charger rated at 40 amps will supply a max of 40 amps to one battery or 40 amps in any combination between the 2 that you connect. If your battery 1 is really low and it hogs all the current from the charger, it will take the 40 amps by itself. So, you have to size the wires for each battery so that it handles the max current from the charger. I would use an 8 guage wire unless the wire is really short - then I might go with 10 guage.
Batts
I have two Trojan 8Ds for a 450 AH house bank and a group 27 for a start batt, linked with a WM combiner. The alternator is a Balmar 115 with a Link system, and the shorecharger is a Xantrex. I use a Honda EU2000 on the bow for charging on the hook, run through the Xantrex, but I can't run the charger and the water heater at the same time so I have the Xantrx set to optimize only one or the other. The Xantrex will put out about 65 amps for a few minutes, then drop to about 55. I charge the batts for about one hour then turn on the water heater for 30 minutes. The Xantrex turns off the charger and allows all the current to go to the water heater. I run refrigeration only, no freezer.
I have two Trojan 8Ds for a 450 AH house bank and a group 27 for a start batt, linked with a WM combiner. The alternator is a Balmar 115 with a Link system, and the shorecharger is a Xantrex. I use a Honda EU2000 on the bow for charging on the hook, run through the Xantrex, but I can't run the charger and the water heater at the same time so I have the Xantrx set to optimize only one or the other. The Xantrex will put out about 65 amps for a few minutes, then drop to about 55. I charge the batts for about one hour then turn on the water heater for 30 minutes. The Xantrex turns off the charger and allows all the current to go to the water heater. I run refrigeration only, no freezer.
I was just thinking back a few years.
If this question would have come up five years ago, the suggestions would have been all over the map. Now they are all similar. Neat. Evolution. The fittest method survived.
If this question would have come up five years ago, the suggestions would have been all over the map. Now they are all similar. Neat. Evolution. The fittest method survived.
ECHO charger
I have a similiar setup also but having problems with the Xantrex 40+ ever going into float mode. I have the a starting bank of two group 27 and a house of 4 trojan T105s with a Link 10. The charger goes thru the cycle but I never see it go into float. The link 10 is showing 14.2 - 14.25 volts and 3.5 amps going to the house (verified with a multi-meter) and the charger will always show charginbg put does cycle down between 10 and 5 amps. This has me concern and I even added the truecharge remote panel to see what each battery was doing. They seem to stay fairly stable but I sure would like to see the charger go into float mode. When I explained this to my yard, they said they have seen this before because the different sizing of the two banks and recommended an Echo charger. I contacted Xantrex to see if I was missing something and they said the ECHO was not what I wanted, but that the Truecharge 40+ is fuine to handle two banks sized differently. The trojans are new the house are original 2003 wet cells. Ideas? also, in reading the ECHO charger install instructions on-line, it said to locate it near both banks....well, my starters are in the cockpit garage locker and the trojans are located in the cabin starboard sittee....not exactly near each other.
I have a similiar setup also but having problems with the Xantrex 40+ ever going into float mode. I have the a starting bank of two group 27 and a house of 4 trojan T105s with a Link 10. The charger goes thru the cycle but I never see it go into float. The link 10 is showing 14.2 - 14.25 volts and 3.5 amps going to the house (verified with a multi-meter) and the charger will always show charginbg put does cycle down between 10 and 5 amps. This has me concern and I even added the truecharge remote panel to see what each battery was doing. They seem to stay fairly stable but I sure would like to see the charger go into float mode. When I explained this to my yard, they said they have seen this before because the different sizing of the two banks and recommended an Echo charger. I contacted Xantrex to see if I was missing something and they said the ECHO was not what I wanted, but that the Truecharge 40+ is fuine to handle two banks sized differently. The trojans are new the house are original 2003 wet cells. Ideas? also, in reading the ECHO charger install instructions on-line, it said to locate it near both banks....well, my starters are in the cockpit garage locker and the trojans are located in the cabin starboard sittee....not exactly near each other.
Shippy - Xantrex 40+ vs. Truecharge 40
Not sure why your present charger won't go to float other than to suspect what you mentioned about different batteries but I can tell you the Truecharge 40 does handle my T125s and separate G27 start battery with no problem as evidenced by the remote panel showing the state of each.
Not sure why your present charger won't go to float other than to suspect what you mentioned about different batteries but I can tell you the Truecharge 40 does handle my T125s and separate G27 start battery with no problem as evidenced by the remote panel showing the state of each.
Don
According to Xantrex, it should handle the two just fine, that is why I'm puzzled. The chemistry of teh banks are the same (wet cells), just the capacity greatly differs. The Truecharge remote panbels will flick Ready for a fraction of a second before clicking back to charging. It will also vary between 5 and 10 amps of charging power. I planned on disconnectingthe starting batteries this week-end for a test to see if the charger will go into and maintain a float.
According to Xantrex, it should handle the two just fine, that is why I'm puzzled. The chemistry of teh banks are the same (wet cells), just the capacity greatly differs. The Truecharge remote panbels will flick Ready for a fraction of a second before clicking back to charging. It will also vary between 5 and 10 amps of charging power. I planned on disconnectingthe starting batteries this week-end for a test to see if the charger will go into and maintain a float.
Options for chargers with multiple outputs
Shorepower Chargers and Relay Devices: Some of you may have Statpower 20 or 40 shorepower chargers by Xantrex or other chargers which have multiple charging output wires to the battery banks. If so, and you have a Combiner, Echo Charge or other relay charging device, you have two choices: (1) use only one of the charger outputs connected to the house bank PDP and use the Combiner or Echo Charge to charge the start bank or; (2) wire the multiple shorepower charger outputs to each bank. Both will work, but using a single point of connection for all charging sources is less wiring and the Combiner or Echo Charge does the job. There is an advantage in using an Echo Charge over a Combiner because neither the shorepower charger’s second output nor the Combiner are “smart” like the Echo Charge in limiting the amperage into the start bank. Both will maintain the start battery at too high a voltage if your house bank is depleted and a heavy charge is required from either your shorepower charger or the alternator.
Shorepower Chargers and Relay Devices: Some of you may have Statpower 20 or 40 shorepower chargers by Xantrex or other chargers which have multiple charging output wires to the battery banks. If so, and you have a Combiner, Echo Charge or other relay charging device, you have two choices: (1) use only one of the charger outputs connected to the house bank PDP and use the Combiner or Echo Charge to charge the start bank or; (2) wire the multiple shorepower charger outputs to each bank. Both will work, but using a single point of connection for all charging sources is less wiring and the Combiner or Echo Charge does the job. There is an advantage in using an Echo Charge over a Combiner because neither the shorepower charger’s second output nor the Combiner are “smart” like the Echo Charge in limiting the amperage into the start bank. Both will maintain the start battery at too high a voltage if your house bank is depleted and a heavy charge is required from either your shorepower charger or the alternator.
Shippy
It's hard to tell exactly what is happening without looking at the whole system. About the only guess I can make is that you have the stock voltage isolator on the start battery which makes the charger sense a lower voltage than it actually has thereby causing the charger to continue to try to charge and results in a higher than acceptable charge on the entire system. Again only a guess.
It's hard to tell exactly what is happening without looking at the whole system. About the only guess I can make is that you have the stock voltage isolator on the start battery which makes the charger sense a lower voltage than it actually has thereby causing the charger to continue to try to charge and results in a higher than acceptable charge on the entire system. Again only a guess.
Fred! That is not evolution it is
natural selection. There is a big difference. Evolution is something NEW being added that was not there before, natural selection is the removal of all the existing solutions in favor of the best one. Nothing new here so can't be evolution.
natural selection. There is a big difference. Evolution is something NEW being added that was not there before, natural selection is the removal of all the existing solutions in favor of the best one. Nothing new here so can't be evolution.
Isolators?
Don, in your response to Shippy you noted "standard isolators." Is someone still using those things? You're right, they take at least 0.6 to 0.7 V away from the charging. If the battery bank isn't getting up to voltage because the charger continues to output but the battery bank and the wiring to it never get up to the charger cutoff voltage because of the isolator, that would happen. Isolators should be removed. Anyone who has them could simply replace them with switches, if they don't want to get anymore involved with electrical systems. In fact, judicious use of the 1-2-B switch would be a much better approach than constantly undercharging the batteries with isolators and over running the charger.
Don, in your response to Shippy you noted "standard isolators." Is someone still using those things? You're right, they take at least 0.6 to 0.7 V away from the charging. If the battery bank isn't getting up to voltage because the charger continues to output but the battery bank and the wiring to it never get up to the charger cutoff voltage because of the isolator, that would happen. Isolators should be removed. Anyone who has them could simply replace them with switches, if they don't want to get anymore involved with electrical systems. In fact, judicious use of the 1-2-B switch would be a much better approach than constantly undercharging the batteries with isolators and over running the charger.
battery isolator
Not sure when Hunter stopped using isolators but in '94 (Frank's 40.5 is a 1994), they did install them. My understanding is that is the first thing that should "go" in any electrical system.
Not sure when Hunter stopped using isolators but in '94 (Frank's 40.5 is a 1994), they did install them. My understanding is that is the first thing that should "go" in any electrical system.
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