How much hydrogen will a group 27 battery produce during a full changing? I need to put mine on the charger overnight, but the two options I have are equally unnerving: either I leave the boat open all night to vent the hydrogen or I charge with the boat closed and build up the gas. Which would be the lesser of two evils?
battery charge and hydrogen
- Thread starter kingprawn
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Not much.
Hydrogen keeps rising and dissipating. And to be explosive it has to be confined and a spark or flame introduced. And normal battery charging won't do it. You've got to over charge to the point of equalization before that happens. I've only had one battery blow up on me. I knew it was coming too. My cable clamps slipped and shorted causing a spark. I tried to reach for the clamp but the battery went 'boom' in my face. Bummer. I moved the battery to my trunk.(I run two Optimas now) Oh, I didn't mention that it happened on my 69 Camaro. That was '72 or so. The car is on my web site, photo's #134-139. And we were up to Kingston this week with the pups on the boat for an overnighter. Had a great time. Where is your slip?
Hydrogen keeps rising and dissipating. And to be explosive it has to be confined and a spark or flame introduced. And normal battery charging won't do it. You've got to over charge to the point of equalization before that happens. I've only had one battery blow up on me. I knew it was coming too. My cable clamps slipped and shorted causing a spark. I tried to reach for the clamp but the battery went 'boom' in my face. Bummer. I moved the battery to my trunk.(I run two Optimas now) Oh, I didn't mention that it happened on my 69 Camaro. That was '72 or so. The car is on my web site, photo's #134-139. And we were up to Kingston this week with the pups on the boat for an overnighter. Had a great time. Where is your slip?
another question
The battery charger that came with my boat is an OLD schumacher charger. It appears to be just a car charger. What is the difference between a regular charger and a deep cycle charger? Does it really make that much of a difference other than possibly having an equalizing cycle?
The battery charger that came with my boat is an OLD schumacher charger. It appears to be just a car charger. What is the difference between a regular charger and a deep cycle charger? Does it really make that much of a difference other than possibly having an equalizing cycle?
If it's an automotive charger
It won't have an 'equalize' setting. But it may well have a 'deep cycle' setting. If your battery is deep cycle, well, use that setting. You would probably have to ask the manufacturer as to the difference. And equalizing is for wet cell batteries that can be opened up and checked with a hydrometer. If the reading varies between cells then equalizing will make the plunger float at the same level between them. The charger will go to about 15.5 volts and hold it for some time, depending on the size of your bank that you previously programmed into it. Whew!
It won't have an 'equalize' setting. But it may well have a 'deep cycle' setting. If your battery is deep cycle, well, use that setting. You would probably have to ask the manufacturer as to the difference. And equalizing is for wet cell batteries that can be opened up and checked with a hydrometer. If the reading varies between cells then equalizing will make the plunger float at the same level between them. The charger will go to about 15.5 volts and hold it for some time, depending on the size of your bank that you previously programmed into it. Whew!
settings?
When I wrote OLD I meant it. This charger has 1 switch with 2 options: 6V and 12V. I'm on my way out to recon prices and such for a new charger. Hopefully I can find something that won't capsize my budget.
When I wrote OLD I meant it. This charger has 1 switch with 2 options: 6V and 12V. I'm on my way out to recon prices and such for a new charger. Hopefully I can find something that won't capsize my budget.
A new charger would be a good Idea
There are tons of threads in the archives that address batteries, chargers and all the different types of them. A quality 3 stage charger is money well spent. It is kind to your batteries, won't generate much gassing unless you tell it to by equilizing your batteries, and your batteries will love you for it.
There are tons of threads in the archives that address batteries, chargers and all the different types of them. A quality 3 stage charger is money well spent. It is kind to your batteries, won't generate much gassing unless you tell it to by equilizing your batteries, and your batteries will love you for it.
got one
I bought a Vector 3 stage smart charger today. After I bought it, I went to westmarine and boaters world to make sure I got the best deal, and I discovered something very interresting. The chargers at the marine stores were exactly the same as the one I bought except for color, the addition of "-M" on the model number, and price. I pulled the owners manuals out of the boxes and they were word for word identical except for the model number addition. The price was $10 and $20 higher for the "-M" charger. I checked Vector's website, and they don't even list this model number. Any thoughts or comments on this?
I bought a Vector 3 stage smart charger today. After I bought it, I went to westmarine and boaters world to make sure I got the best deal, and I discovered something very interresting. The chargers at the marine stores were exactly the same as the one I bought except for color, the addition of "-M" on the model number, and price. I pulled the owners manuals out of the boxes and they were word for word identical except for the model number addition. The price was $10 and $20 higher for the "-M" charger. I checked Vector's website, and they don't even list this model number. Any thoughts or comments on this?
navy base
I bought it at the auto shop on the base I'm stationed at. I got it for $49.99 (the no sales tax thing helps too). It's been hooked up on my battery for about 4 hours now. I hope it will be done charging soon. Tomorrow I'll check the battery voltage to see if that's the next purchase.
I bought it at the auto shop on the base I'm stationed at. I got it for $49.99 (the no sales tax thing helps too). It's been hooked up on my battery for about 4 hours now. I hope it will be done charging soon. Tomorrow I'll check the battery voltage to see if that's the next purchase.
You know, I've got a problem with that,,,,
I think $49.99 is just plugged with profit. You guys should get stuff for free! Are you a Costco member? The last automotive charger I bought there was in the mid $30 range, 4 years ago.
I think $49.99 is just plugged with profit. You guys should get stuff for free! Are you a Costco member? The last automotive charger I bought there was in the mid $30 range, 4 years ago.
sort of
I have a membership, but I haven't paid the dues in a while because of how much it costs every time I go in there. They have lot's of cool stuff. Any thoughts on a 15A battery charger inlet? I saw one at boaters world and started visualizing where I'd drill the hole.
I have a membership, but I haven't paid the dues in a while because of how much it costs every time I go in there. They have lot's of cool stuff. Any thoughts on a 15A battery charger inlet? I saw one at boaters world and started visualizing where I'd drill the hole.
Costco Doesn't Like Military
The last time I checked Costco wouldn't accept military people for membership. Most military people get membership because their spouse is non-military. That is unless they've changed the rules. Personally, I think that Costco rule stinks. A friend of mine who was military retired and a vet refused to shop there. With regard to blowing up batteries and hydrogen in 'enclosed' spaces, just having the battery cap off is still enough to cause the top to blow off from a spark at the battery terminal, and even with a 4amp charger! (don't ask me how I know).
So be careful, turn the battery charger off before disconnecting, use outstretched arms, and USE SAFETY GOGGLES. Since a battery charger will no doubt have capacitance it could store enough juice for a spark.
The last time I checked Costco wouldn't accept military people for membership. Most military people get membership because their spouse is non-military. That is unless they've changed the rules. Personally, I think that Costco rule stinks. A friend of mine who was military retired and a vet refused to shop there. With regard to blowing up batteries and hydrogen in 'enclosed' spaces, just having the battery cap off is still enough to cause the top to blow off from a spark at the battery terminal, and even with a 4amp charger! (don't ask me how I know).
So be careful, turn the battery charger off before disconnecting, use outstretched arms, and USE SAFETY GOGGLES. Since a battery charger will no doubt have capacitance it could store enough juice for a spark.actually...
I got my Costco membership by showing my military ID. They've done that at least since '93 when I first reported up here. Fred, I just saw your comment about being in Kingston. My "slip" is in my driveway. I usually lauch at Salsbury Point since it's about 5 minutes from my house. Busy ramp, but the price is right. I hope to launch at Kingston at least once this season. Brownsville is on the list also.
I got my Costco membership by showing my military ID. They've done that at least since '93 when I first reported up here. Fred, I just saw your comment about being in Kingston. My "slip" is in my driveway. I usually lauch at Salsbury Point since it's about 5 minutes from my house. Busy ramp, but the price is right. I hope to launch at Kingston at least once this season. Brownsville is on the list also.
Regarding Cosco
Military personell are allowed to join. The military has not set up any sort of alliance with Cosco to form a group for discounts. As a group member, any person in the group is entitled to the group discount. The military has never formed the group, but individual military can be regular rather than group members.
Military personell are allowed to join. The military has not set up any sort of alliance with Cosco to form a group for discounts. As a group member, any person in the group is entitled to the group discount. The military has never formed the group, but individual military can be regular rather than group members.
Heres a couple of links you guys may be
interested in. EDTA is a chemical used to remove sulfation in flooded batteries. The other article is about an electronic desulfanator. I have personally used commercial electronic desulfinators and can say that they work well IF you are using them on a quality deep cycle battery that was abused and died a premature death due to sulfation. It will not revive a cheapo battery that is old and the plate material is about gone. While the referenced website primarily deals with off grid home power systems and not boats, thats basically what a boat is. This website has excellent reference material for all the battery, solar panel, charger, etc. questions I see so often on this site. The people that run it are unbiased, objective and very good at what they do. http://www.homepower.com/files/edta.pdf?search=edta http://www.homepower.com/files/desulfator.pdf?search=edta
interested in. EDTA is a chemical used to remove sulfation in flooded batteries. The other article is about an electronic desulfanator. I have personally used commercial electronic desulfinators and can say that they work well IF you are using them on a quality deep cycle battery that was abused and died a premature death due to sulfation. It will not revive a cheapo battery that is old and the plate material is about gone. While the referenced website primarily deals with off grid home power systems and not boats, thats basically what a boat is. This website has excellent reference material for all the battery, solar panel, charger, etc. questions I see so often on this site. The people that run it are unbiased, objective and very good at what they do. http://www.homepower.com/files/edta.pdf?search=edta http://www.homepower.com/files/desulfator.pdf?search=edta
charged
I ran a 6A charge yesterday, took close to 8 hours. This morning the battery was at 12.39V, approximately 75%. I'm running a long 2A charge now to see if it will hold a full charge. It was left discharged so long this winter that it probably sulfated. Any ideas on how well the "reconditioning" cycle on these new chargers works?
I ran a 6A charge yesterday, took close to 8 hours. This morning the battery was at 12.39V, approximately 75%. I'm running a long 2A charge now to see if it will hold a full charge. It was left discharged so long this winter that it probably sulfated. Any ideas on how well the "reconditioning" cycle on these new chargers works?
Oh, about Costco,
Ours, (Silverdale #13) no longer requires a group affiliation to join. Anyone off the street is free to pay and, well, pay again. It's so much fun.
Ours, (Silverdale #13) no longer requires a group affiliation to join. Anyone off the street is free to pay and, well, pay again. It's so much fun.
now I'm being paranoid
So I did the 2A charge today to "top off" the battery. In the last four hours I've read voltages from 12.49 to 15.23. I know the voltage will fluctuate after a charge, and I brought the battery in the house where it's about 20 degrees warmer, but this seems like some really wild fluctuation to me. I'm sure that with temperature and time stabilization it will level off to somewhere near a full charge voltage, but right now it's kind of freaking me out.
So I did the 2A charge today to "top off" the battery. In the last four hours I've read voltages from 12.49 to 15.23. I know the voltage will fluctuate after a charge, and I brought the battery in the house where it's about 20 degrees warmer, but this seems like some really wild fluctuation to me. I'm sure that with temperature and time stabilization it will level off to somewhere near a full charge voltage, but right now it's kind of freaking me out.
voltage fluctuations
A 3 stage charger has 3 voltage settings for the 3 stages. 1 Bulk charge, 14.4 volts. 2 Absorption charge, once the battery voltage wants to go above 14.4 volts, the charger will decrease current to the battery to maintain it at 14.4 volts. 3 float charge, once the absorption charge is complete the charger will maintain the voltage at about 13.3 to 13.6 depending on the charger. This setting keeps the battery from self discharging. Your 15.23 voltage is an equilization charge voltage. Are you reading this voltage when the charger is on and in the "recondition" setting? If so this is a good thing. Batteries should be equilized about once every 4-6 weeks. Water the batteries with distilled water, and bring them up to this voltage and leave the charger on for 1-2 hours. The batteries will be bubbling vigorously. without monitoring charging amps it's hard to say exactly how long to equilize. after charging let the battery sit with no load or charge for 3 hours. A fully charged battery will read 12.6 volts. plus or minus .1 volts. You need to realise that voltage will fluctuate a bunch depending on load, state of charge, and condition and type of battery.
A 3 stage charger has 3 voltage settings for the 3 stages. 1 Bulk charge, 14.4 volts. 2 Absorption charge, once the battery voltage wants to go above 14.4 volts, the charger will decrease current to the battery to maintain it at 14.4 volts. 3 float charge, once the absorption charge is complete the charger will maintain the voltage at about 13.3 to 13.6 depending on the charger. This setting keeps the battery from self discharging. Your 15.23 voltage is an equilization charge voltage. Are you reading this voltage when the charger is on and in the "recondition" setting? If so this is a good thing. Batteries should be equilized about once every 4-6 weeks. Water the batteries with distilled water, and bring them up to this voltage and leave the charger on for 1-2 hours. The batteries will be bubbling vigorously. without monitoring charging amps it's hard to say exactly how long to equilize. after charging let the battery sit with no load or charge for 3 hours. A fully charged battery will read 12.6 volts. plus or minus .1 volts. You need to realise that voltage will fluctuate a bunch depending on load, state of charge, and condition and type of battery.
not while charging
The voltages were taken after the charge with nothing connected to the battery. It stabilized out at 12.5V. Most of what I've read lists that as typically a 75% charge. I'm going to pony up the $3 to get a hydrometer to take acurate state of charge readings. It would be really nice if exide/champion still had info for this model of battery on their website so I could know what voltage they consider to be a 100% charge. Currently I'm running a desulfating cycle on it. I'll be able to test specific gravity after I get off work on wednesday to make a final determination on whether to replace the battery or not.
The voltages were taken after the charge with nothing connected to the battery. It stabilized out at 12.5V. Most of what I've read lists that as typically a 75% charge. I'm going to pony up the $3 to get a hydrometer to take acurate state of charge readings. It would be really nice if exide/champion still had info for this model of battery on their website so I could know what voltage they consider to be a 100% charge. Currently I'm running a desulfating cycle on it. I'll be able to test specific gravity after I get off work on wednesday to make a final determination on whether to replace the battery or not.
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