Battery banks and fusing

Sailvayu · Mar 22, 2015

Fuse size is based on wire size not battery size. Personally I would not fuse the starter cable and ABYC does not require this as long as there is a disconnect switch in the circuit. I know some think you need a fuse in the starter wire but I think it is something that can go wrong at the wrong time but hey that is just me. So base fuse on wire size and load not battery size.

Stu Jackson · Mar 22, 2015

You should already have this website bookmarked:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_fusing

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Mar 22, 2015

Don't listen to the don't fuse post. There is no reason not to fuse a battery on a sailboat. Yes it is true you don't have to but your second battery isn't just a starting battery. It's a reserve battery capable of powering house loads as well.

As Stu pointed out, read Maine Sail's website. He also has a section of this forum under Musings of Maine Sail, at least read all the stickies there if not the whole thing.

Here is how I dealt with the battery issue. https://svsmitty.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/battery-upgrade/

When your 4Ds die, and they will soon I bet because you didn't put two brand new date match ones into the primary bank, go with 6V or 12V golf cart flooded batteries. Read about it on the link that Stu posted.

You also have way more battery then you need in the reserve bank. A group 24 "deep cycle" is fine.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Mar 23, 2015

Rummerful said:
I thought about the mismatch of the house bank, but went with it since they were the exact same age and about equal in strength. Both are 3 yrs old, so I do not expect much more anyway. I will not replace with 4ds since they are not the best solution and one is too heavy for me to handle. When they die, I will go for the smaller size. The 6 volts interest me.
Eric

I got about 18 months out of 4Ds doing similar to what you just did.

I went with the 6V Golf Carts. You can't really fit 4 6 volts and a Group 24 with correct orientation where the two 4Ds are. I had to remove the fiberglass battery tray and put the batteries in individual boxes. I could only get 3 of the 5 in the correct orientation so I put the other 2 as close to the center line of the boat as possible.

I think I would consider going with 12 volt golf carts if I did this again. My friend, Andrew, also owns and lives on his C310. We were at Sam's Club 2 weeks ago to look at batteries for his upgrade. He currently has two Group 31, IIRC, having ditched the 4Ds a while ago. The 12V golf cart batteries at Sam's Club also appear to be made by Dekka. I haven't called to confirm yet but visually they look to be the same. I would also want to confirm that these also have the thicker lead plates like the 6Vs. If these are a viable alternative you can get 465 Ah out of 3 in parallel but save about 20 square inches of space. I think you could get them all in a better orientation as well. But they are about an inch taller. So that might be an issue with fitting 3 as the hull curve shortens the height as you get closer to it.

Even 2 of the 12V CG would give you 310 Ah of actual deep cycle (if the research above pans out) which would be an upgrade from the 4Ds and take up less space. You could fit the 2 plus a Group 24 as a reserve bank in the same area as the 2 4Ds. No need to have a battery under the nav station. That would be plenty of battery for your typical use.

Just something else to consider and research.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

Solstice · Mar 26, 2015

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
I got about 18 months out of 4Ds doing similar to what you just did.

I went with the 6V Golf Carts. You can't really fit 4 6 volts and a Group 24 with correct orientation where the two 4Ds are. I had to remove the fiberglass battery tray and put the batteries in individual boxes. I could only get 3 of the 5 in the correct orientation so I put the other 2 as close to the center line of the boat as possible.

I think I would consider going with 12 volt golf carts if I did this again. My friend, Andrew, also owns and lives on his C310. We were at Sam's Club 2 weeks ago to look at batteries for his upgrade. He currently has two Group 31, IIRC, having ditched the 4Ds a while ago. The 12V golf cart batteries at Sam's Club also appear to be made by Dekka. I haven't called to confirm yet but visually they look to be the same. I would also want to confirm that these also have the thicker lead plates like the 6Vs. If these are a viable alternative you can get 465 Ah out of 3 in parallel but save about 20 square inches of space. I think you could get them all in a better orientation as well. But they are about an inch taller. So that might be an issue with fitting 3 as the hull curve shortens the height as you get closer to it.

Even 2 of the 12V CG would give you 310 Ah of actual deep cycle (if the research above pans out) which would be an upgrade from the 4Ds and take up less space. You could fit the 2 plus a Group 24 as a reserve bank in the same area as the 2 4Ds. No need to have a battery under the nav station. That would be plenty of battery for your typical use.

Just something else to consider and research.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but could you give me more detail on the orientation? My factory 4D's will be on Year5 this coming season and are showing a resting V of 12.62, so I have been looking for a way to get GC's in the box I have. Unfortunately there is no way to alter the box and I'm looking for a creative way to get 400AH worth of House Bank in that space (I have a reserve in another location). As you can see from the photo, if I move my fuses, I have about 2.5" to spare. However the wire channel needs to be clear. The President of Rolls Battery in Salem is a friend of mine and offered to lend me the empty case batteries that they bring to boat shows; I will take him up on this, but when I saw this, I thought your research on 12V GC's might help my dilemma...

peter_ms · Mar 26, 2015

What is that picture of? It's not a 310

Solstice · Mar 26, 2015

peter_ms said:
What is that picture of? It's not a 310

Catalina 355

Solstice · Mar 26, 2015

Rummerful said:
The photo says it is a 355. I measured the Sam's Club GC12 and I believe that 3 will fit with no modification. That will give over 400 ah for the house. When my 4ds die, that is what I will do.
Eric

Thank you Rummerful. I was interested in Jesse's research into what the relabel of these are as well. I am familiar with Maine Sail's research, but that was for the 6V's. Appreciate all the info!

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Mar 26, 2015

Solstice said:
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but could you give me more detail on the orientation? My factory 4D's will be on Year5 this coming season and are showing a resting V of 12.62, so I have been looking for a way to get GC's in the box I have. Unfortunately there is no way to alter the box and I'm looking for a creative way to get 400AH worth of House Bank in that space (I have a reserve in another location). As you can see from the photo, if I move my fuses, I have about 2.5" to spare. However the wire channel needs to be clear. The President of Rolls Battery in Salem is a friend of mine and offered to lend me the empty case batteries that they bring to boat shows; I will take him up on this, but when I saw this, I thought your research on 12V GC's might help my dilemma...

Here is the article that Maine Sail did on battery orientation if you haven't seen it.

From looking at the photo of the C355 battery area, it looks like you can't put 6V GC in port to starboard orientation. They would end up in bow to stern orientation and that is the wrong way.

However, it does look like you might be able to get the 12V GC batteries in port to starboard orientation. The width of the 4Ds are 8.25 inches each so, 16.5 inches total. The length of the 12V GCs is 13.125 inches. The length of the 4Ds is 21 inches, the width of the 12V GCs is 7.0625 inches, so you could fit 2, maybe 3 of the 12V GCs. But the height could be close. I think you need another 1 inches to fit the 12 volt GC batteries over what the 4Ds take. The height of the 4Ds is 10.375 inches and the height of the 12V GCs is 11.375 inches. I don't think that the height would be a problem with your cables but it might be a problem with the terminal fuses.

But all of that is based on your current battery box. It looks like you could take that out and go with the good Dyno battery boxes and gain the space for 3 of the 12V GC batteries.

The 3 12V GCs would give you 465 Ah theoretically.

On the C310, I don't see how to get the 3 12V GCs to fit with correct orientation even with removing the battery box and building a custom box. The 12V GCs and the 6V GCs are the same width and I couldn't bet 3 of the 6V GCs to fit with port to starboard orientation. I had to go bow to stern on two to get them to fit.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Mar 26, 2015

By the way, just to repeat what I said earlier in the thread. The 12V GC batteries look good but more research is need to see if they are truly deep cycle and of decent quality. I am have not looked into these further and I don't think Maine Sail has posted anything on these. Trojan does make a quality 12V GC battery that is similar in physical dimensions.

Solstice · Mar 26, 2015

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
By the way, just to repeat what I said earlier in the thread. The 12V GC batteries look good but more research is need to see if they are truly deep cycle and of decent quality. I am have not looked into these further and I don't think Maine Sail has posted anything on these. Trojan does make a quality 12V GC battery that is similar in physical dimensions.

Thanks Jesse,
Yes I have seen his post on the subject (read them all). As you mention, I was curious as to what they really are in terms of research. I know Trojan makes them as does Rolls, but the SC option would be compelling price wise if they are true DC from one of the reputable manufacturers. I'll make some calls...

Not too worried about the MRBF as I could move them to the Buss bar and only be a few inches beyond the standard. Unfortunately removing the box won't buy the space I need due to the slope of the hull similar to your situation.

Maine Sail · Mar 26, 2015

Solstice said:
Thanks Jesse,
Yes I have seen his post on the subject (read them all). As you mention, I was curious as to what they really are in terms of research. I know Trojan makes them as does Rolls, but the SC option would be compelling price wise if they are true DC from one of the reputable manufacturers. I'll make some calls...

Not too worried about the MRBF as I could move them to the Buss bar and only be a few inches beyond the standard. Unfortunately removing the box won't buy the space I need due to the slope of the hull similar to your situation.

Deka makes a GC12V battery but the case is blue (I suspect this battery is made by US Battery for Deka but neither source will confirm nor deny). It is a 12V golf car battery just in a 12V configuration and it competes with the Trojan T1275, the US Battery US12V XC2 & the Crown CR-GC155.

Our Sam's used to sell them but stopped a while ago. I am not certain who makes the black case version but if it says East Penn on the sticker on top then it is a Deka product. They used to have a blue case and perhaps Deka now builds their own in black vs. blue...

Deka GC-12

US battery GC-12

Crown GC-12

Trojan GC-12

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Mar 26, 2015

Maine Sail said:
Deka makes a GC12V battery but the case is blue (I suspect this battery is made by US Battery for Deka but neither source will confirm nor deny). It is a 12V golf car battery just in a 12V configuration and it competes with the Trojan T1275, the US Battery US12V XC2 & the Crown CR-GC155.

Our Sam's used to sell them but stopped a while ago. I am not certain who makes the black case version but if it says East Penn on the sticker on top then it is a Deka product. They used to have a blue case and perhaps Deka now builds their own in black vs. blue...

Deka GC-12

US battery GC-12

Great info!

Interesting because the Sam's 12V GC looks like the Deka but black.

Solstice · Mar 26, 2015

Maine Sail said:
Deka makes a GC12V battery but the case is blue (I suspect this battery is made by US Battery for Deka but neither source will confirm nor deny). It is a 12V golf car battery just in a 12V configuration and it competes with the Trojan T1275, the US Battery US12V XC2 & the Crown CR-GC155. Our Sam's used to sell them but stopped a while ago. I am not certain who makes the black case version but if it says East Penn on the sticker on top then it is a Deka product. They used to have a blue case and perhaps Deka now builds their own in black vs. blue... Deka GC-12 US battery GC-12 Crown GC-12 Trojan GC-12

As always, thanks Maine! It looks like the 12v GCs will be the footprint that will be my ticket away from the 4Ds. I will chase these down to determine the best bang for the buck. As I mentioned Jay at Rolls will lend me some dummy cases so I can dry fit, but based on Jesse's numbers it should work--just need clearance for my wire run...

Bob S · Mar 26, 2015

Where is there a SAMs club around Boston south? I bought 6v golf cart batteries at A-1 battery in Quincy. They are a distributor for US Battery. I use it in a scissors lift unfortunately they are too tall for the C30 compartment. I had to go with 2 group 31's for 260 ah. They've proven sufficient for the cruising we do.

rpwillia · Mar 26, 2015

They Fit

Not sure about all the fuss about fitting. I put the 6v batteries in and they fit where the old 4D's did. One thing I had to change was they are a tad higher so I had to re-design the bracing as the factory 2x4 would no longer fit over the top. Also had to make up jumper cables to make the 6V batteries into 12V banks.

Battery banks and fusing

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