Battery Bank Question

May 1, 2017
3
Beneteau 352 Bellingham
Hi all,
I have a "new to me" Beneteau 352 (same as 343) and the battery banks aren't acting like I expect them to.

There are three battery switches: 1 for house, 1 for engine and 1 shuts off the ground for both.

When I shut off the engine bank switch, I'd expect the engine to use the house battery, but the starter doesn't turn over.

It also doesn't work the other way, I turn on the engine battery and off the house battery and the cabin lights don't work.

Is the above behavior expected, or should I be able to start the engine with the house battery?
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,188
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Maine Sail has a lot of excellent info on this forum regarding batteries, and switch set up. I would suggest you look at his or Stu's information.
Is this the way you think your system is set up?
"from MaineSail's report on battery Switches"
154153780.jpg
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,188
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Is the above behavior expected, or should I be able to start the engine with the house battery?
Eweb... Welcome to the forum. Your question is one that cannot be answered directly.
It is the way it should work if it was designed to work that way. Of course boat owners sometimes alter the original designs and then it is upto the new owner to examine, understand and then use this information. You have not shared the boat age, but your reference "new to me" indicates there have been one or more previous owners.
As a fellow PacificNW sailor, share a bit more of what you know and maybe we will be able to help.
 
May 1, 2017
3
Beneteau 352 Bellingham
In the attached diagram, what is labeled "Emergency Switch" is what my question is about.
The emergency switch in my boat is made by albright. The triggering contacts lead into the engine harness so I can't tell what should trigger the switch.
-Is the switch supposed to be open normally?
-And if not, what is supposed to trigger it?

And I understand your point about you not being able to answer directly. The boat is a 2007 model and I've tried to trace the wires to figure out how it should work, but I'm getting stuck where the wires enter the engine.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,188
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Ok. Can you take a picture of the back of the switches?
What are the sizes of the wires? Colors of the insulation? Do you have a volt meter?
Knowing what you can see would give me a bit more to go on. I am not a marine electrical engineer like several of the forum folk, but I am rewiring my current boat, and I have wired others all with out diagrams, that required developing a diagram and then making sense of the information. Once there is a bit of info developed you'll get all sorts of responses here on line.
Did you get a wiring diagram from the previous owner? Can you scan it and post it here?
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,051
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
eweb, this question, as John said, comes up a lot. Do you have the wiring diagram for your boat? You NEED to trace the wiring on the diagram and in the field (on your boat) and understand how it works. If you do a search on "beneteau wiring" and an advanced search on that phrase by Maine Sail you'll find the earlier discussions. There was one just last week!

What you "expect" an how Beneteau wired their boats is generally different based on experiences shared by Beneteau owners here.

Here's one of their wiring diagrams:
Beneteau 411Wiring Diagram.JPG
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Stu's schematic is what is in my owners manual for the B323. It sounds like you do not have that jumper between the 2 "load" sides of the switches. In effect, that jumper is a 12 volts buss bar. When I added my 3rd battery and switch, I connected all three load sides together. In this way, you can feed the buss bar from any of the batteries . All loads and generators are wired to the buss bar.
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,916
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
There are three battery switches: 1 for house, 1 for engine and 1 shuts off the ground for both.
When I shut off the engine bank switch, I'd expect the engine to use the house battery, but the starter doesn't turn over.
My '06 Ben 343 is apparently wired the same as yours. You can not start the engine with the house bank. I have an inexpensive set of jumper cables on board in the event that the starter battery becomes problematic.
 

DougM

.
Jul 24, 2005
2,242
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
My 323 is wired as Stu's diagram indicates. Either battery can be designated as "house" or "engine" . and they can be used interchangeably. In my case, both batteries are identical.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
My '06 Ben 343 is apparently wired the same as yours. You can not start the engine with the house bank. I have an inexpensive set of jumper cables on board in the event that the starter battery becomes problematic.
Post 7: check to see if there is a cable between the 2 load sides of the battery SWITCHES (added). Any/both batteries switched on will start the engine. This pix is/was Chuck's 323. The suspect missing jumper on your boat has the string around it. Did you buy this boat new, or used? SOME people take that strap off, but I'm not gonna say why, because I don't agree with it. IIRC, that heavy cable on the top of the middle switch goes to the starter.
 

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
My '06 Ben 343 is apparently wired the same as yours. You can not start the engine with the house bank. I have an inexpensive set of jumper cables on board in the event that the starter battery becomes problematic.
Won't start , so maybe the house switch is not "on"? Otherwise, see post 7 and 11.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
By the way B guys, you can easily cut a new little panel to protect the back of the switches. On the aft side of the stringer in my BATT pic, cut a cardboard template to match the hull, then add the vertical side to your pattern. A 1 x 1 or larger vertical cleat about on that seam in the wood partition on the right. You could glue the bottom of the new panel, but mine stays put with just being screwed to the cleat. Here is a pic of my panel t=with ground cable and Victron monitor wiring.
 

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Jun 21, 2004
2,916
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Ron,
Sorry about the misinformation. With the STARTER switch ON, obviously the engine starts. With the STARTER switch OFF and the HOUSE switch ON, the engine will not start. With BOTH switches ON, the batteries are likely combined. Will have to check it with my meter. Yes, I did purchase my boat used; however, in the middle of the 343 production run, I know that Beneteau did change the wiring configuration. Also, on the 343 models with a windlass, there is relay/parallel component that is part of the system.
 

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Crimey... read post 7, 11, 12 again and again and again until you understand what is said.
 

DougM

.
Jul 24, 2005
2,242
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
Ron,
why does the picture of your panel show a "Negative" Label, then a red switch handle below it?
If it is in fact negative, handle should be black. Otherwise the label needs to be changed.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Ron,
Sorry about the misinformation. With the STARTER switch ON, obviously the engine starts. With the STARTER switch OFF and the HOUSE switch ON, the engine will not start. With BOTH switches ON, the batteries are likely combined. Will have to check it with my meter. Yes, I did purchase my boat used; however, in the middle of the 343 production run, I know that Beneteau did change the wiring configuration. Also, on the 343 models with a windlass, there is relay/parallel component that is part of the system.

A lot of folks modify the Beneteau factory wiring to isolate house & start banks. The way it is often wired from the factory you have one battery bus and can add to, or isolate batteries from it. The labeling and description are often "HOUSE" and "START" but this is simply untrue with a single bus battery system. Flipping both switches ON is really no different than using the BOTH position, all the time, with a 1/2/BOTH switch. It is often best to use them like a 1/2/B used as a "use switch" using the house bank for everything (starting and DC loads) and leaving the start switch OFF with an ECHO or ACR type device to keep the reserve bank fully charged.

I have had far too many Benetea and Jenneau owners kill both banks thinking they were indeed "HOUSE" & "START"due to the owners manual description and the two independent switches.

The most common fix/upgrade is to add a heavy duty negative busbar and to re-purpose the "negative" switch (which FWIW is not ABYC compliant) as an emergency parallel/cross connect switch. You can now have an isolated house and dedicated start bank as well as powering the entire system from either bank with either bank isolated. A simple CMD (charge management device) will keep both banks charged.

This switching also allows you to mix battery chemistry or brand. For example I have a customer with a First series, that he races, using Lifeline AGM for house @14.4V then a very tiny but very high cranking Odyssey PC925 as a start battery. The Lifeline bank charges at 14.4V and the Odyssey is charging at 14.7V via a small buck/boost Sterling DC to DC battery charger. I also have a customer with a Sydney 38 race boat that had a similar switch config and they lost all DC power mid way to Bermuda. They thought the switches were "isolated" but really it was just one large bank when both switches were in the ON position.

In the next week or two I am re-wring a Hanse that had an incident with a factory switch config. In this case the banks were isolated (not bussed) with just two ON/OFF switches. The start battery failed due to a bilge pump that had been incorrectly wired to the start bank, not house, and a stuck Rule bilge switch. The owner had no way to use his house bank to start the motor and with massive 8D batteries there was no moving them to the start battery box for a jump. He has decided on a Blue Sea 8280 three On/Off switch panel.

The Bene & Jenneau battery switches are usually made by a French company called Viatemis (though some I have come across have been no-name). They can be purchased in a red handle or just make a new label for the re-purposed negative "emergency" switch.

Also keep in mind, if you have a thruster, large inverter/charger or large bank and large alternator that these switches are only rated for 150A continuous. They can have pretty bad voltage drop across them at high current and I have had two that have been dropping close to 1 volt with less than 40A passing across them. Both boats had thrusters and large inverters. Even the smallest Blue Sea m-Series On/Off switch can handle 300A continuously, 500A for 5 minutes and 900A for 30 seconds.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
My Beneteau came OEM with a 3000 W inverter that was tied to a dedicated battery disconnect (same as the other red handle types).
 
May 1, 2017
3
Beneteau 352 Bellingham
Thanks for all the information everyone. Between reading this thread and tracing wires with the multimeter I have found that my two battery banks are not connected at all even with both battery switches on. The boat was a charter boat for the first year of its life so I'm guessing someone removed the jumper to protect charter guests from discharging the starting battery.

I will either add the jumper between the two banks or do what Maine Sail suggests and repurpose the black cutoff switch as a cross-connect.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
If you want to add that jumper, and if it's the right size/length, I have my OEM from when I reconfigured my B323. The battery switch can be googled,
"solderep switch, france" part 201540. 150 amp, 1000 for 5 seconds. 10 mm studs.
 
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