Getting ready to launch my 94 H-26. I'm charging the batteries in the basement - put the Automotive battery charger on the battery (after topping both off with distilled water) ... after a couple of hours I'm getting a stream of water down the basement floor. The battery was not overfilled with water. My second battery - same thing. Filled with water...charger on .... leaking on the floor. Is it the charger I'm using? Is this normal? Am I out two batteries? Thanks all. Tom Grass Grasshopper II 94 H-26 #174
Batteries
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Always add water AFTER charging, unless.....
the electrolyte is not or is just barely covering the plates. The level will go up when charged, and I suspect that this is your problem. Additionally, if the electrolyte is actually over-flowing, I think you have WAY over-filled the cells also. You said that you didn't over-fill, and given that as fact, I am at a loss to explain the spillage. Adding a large quantity of water to battery cells can easily dilute the acid below the "normal" range and render the battery un-usable. I would remove some of the electrolyte with a syringe to restore the normal level and then measure the specific gravity with a quality hydrometer. If after fully charged, the SG is below 1.260, then either the battery is at end-of-life or it has been over-watered. I have had some success adding concentrated sulfuric acid to an over-watered battery and have been able to get another year or two of service out of it. However, obtaining concentrated sulfuric is not easy (I got mine from a college chem lab) and you must be very careful in handling. In answer to your last three questions- I don't think the charger is at fault, it is definitely NOT normal, and yes, you may be out two batteries.
the electrolyte is not or is just barely covering the plates. The level will go up when charged, and I suspect that this is your problem. Additionally, if the electrolyte is actually over-flowing, I think you have WAY over-filled the cells also. You said that you didn't over-fill, and given that as fact, I am at a loss to explain the spillage. Adding a large quantity of water to battery cells can easily dilute the acid below the "normal" range and render the battery un-usable. I would remove some of the electrolyte with a syringe to restore the normal level and then measure the specific gravity with a quality hydrometer. If after fully charged, the SG is below 1.260, then either the battery is at end-of-life or it has been over-watered. I have had some success adding concentrated sulfuric acid to an over-watered battery and have been able to get another year or two of service out of it. However, obtaining concentrated sulfuric is not easy (I got mine from a college chem lab) and you must be very careful in handling. In answer to your last three questions- I don't think the charger is at fault, it is definitely NOT normal, and yes, you may be out two batteries.
not good
Not to disagree with Rich who is giving you good feedback but did you check the voltage on the charger while doing this? I'd bet the charger was WAY overcharging the batteries as they will typically only boil off water when the voltage rises to 15+ volts. If the batteries are not deep cycle and you overcharge for a prolonged period, you likely shortened the life of the batteries. You can get away with doing this to deep cycle batteries and in fact periodic overcharging (called equalization) is good for deep cycle batteries; not starter batteries.
Not to disagree with Rich who is giving you good feedback but did you check the voltage on the charger while doing this? I'd bet the charger was WAY overcharging the batteries as they will typically only boil off water when the voltage rises to 15+ volts. If the batteries are not deep cycle and you overcharge for a prolonged period, you likely shortened the life of the batteries. You can get away with doing this to deep cycle batteries and in fact periodic overcharging (called equalization) is good for deep cycle batteries; not starter batteries.
Good point Don, I hadn't considered......
that the overflow was from heavy boiling vs expansion of the electrolyte. Tom, can you tell us if the expulsion is from the level in the batteries rising or from heavy gassing?
that the overflow was from heavy boiling vs expansion of the electrolyte. Tom, can you tell us if the expulsion is from the level in the batteries rising or from heavy gassing?
Batteries - Again
50 some years on this planet - and I just learned that you charge - THEN - fill with water. This is the value of this forum. Again - if I remove water to say 1 to 2 inches from the top of each cell ... then put on a charger that has a trickle charge capability - do you think I should see no further leakage? If I do - then I suppose this is due to gassing? Is this caused by too heavy of charging? If I removed some water ... if the specific gravity is below 1.260 - can I buy a commercially available liquid to restore the acid to the proper level? Tom Grass
50 some years on this planet - and I just learned that you charge - THEN - fill with water. This is the value of this forum. Again - if I remove water to say 1 to 2 inches from the top of each cell ... then put on a charger that has a trickle charge capability - do you think I should see no further leakage? If I do - then I suppose this is due to gassing? Is this caused by too heavy of charging? If I removed some water ... if the specific gravity is below 1.260 - can I buy a commercially available liquid to restore the acid to the proper level? Tom Grass
charger malfunction?
Tom If the batteries are gassing, it would only be a result of a shorted plate or bad cell which causes the voltage to rise excessively, neither of which can always be identified by checking the sp gravity of each cell. Checking with a hydrometer would be a good place to start but not necessarily conclusive. I'd start by checking resting voltage and monitoring charge voltage to observe the curve at which voltage rises. Too high a spike is indicative of a shorted plate With respect to buying battery acid,as Rich said, you can get sulfuric acid but be careful what you wish for as simply putting acid in at the wrong ratio can exacerbate the problem. Using your hydrometer in a well-mixed battery is the surest way of refilling the cells. As the same thing happened to both batteries, the only common denominator is the charger which makes me question if it is the culprit.
Tom If the batteries are gassing, it would only be a result of a shorted plate or bad cell which causes the voltage to rise excessively, neither of which can always be identified by checking the sp gravity of each cell. Checking with a hydrometer would be a good place to start but not necessarily conclusive. I'd start by checking resting voltage and monitoring charge voltage to observe the curve at which voltage rises. Too high a spike is indicative of a shorted plate With respect to buying battery acid,as Rich said, you can get sulfuric acid but be careful what you wish for as simply putting acid in at the wrong ratio can exacerbate the problem. Using your hydrometer in a well-mixed battery is the surest way of refilling the cells. As the same thing happened to both batteries, the only common denominator is the charger which makes me question if it is the culprit.
Specific Gravity modification
Tom, Please note that it is important to maintain the electrolyte level above the plates at all times. And you should add water to the cells before charging IF the level is at or below the plates. However, the level normally rises with charging so you don't want to adjust the level to the final or normal level until after charging. Most flooded cells want the normal level to be 1/4-3/8" above the plates or perhaps to 1/4" below the bottom of the fill tube that extends into the cell. Many fill tubes have a slot in their sides so that if the electrolyte expands to the bottom of the tube during charging, the charging gasses can escape through the slot instead of pushing the electrolyte out of the top of the cell. Regarding buying acid- The containers of battery acid that are available in auto supply stores is 1.265 SG electrolyte. This is intended to be added to dry-charged batteries when they are put in service. This is NOT the acid to add to a battery that has been over-watered. If you have a battery that has been inadvertently over-watered, it's SG will be well below 1.260-1.270 which is the normal value for a fully charged healthy battery. It will probably be 1.250 or below. In order to bring the AVERAGE SG up to 1.265, you need to add acid that is MORE concentrated than 1.265 so you need to get concentrated sulfuric acid from a lab. You don't want to dump all of the old battery acid out and refill completely because then you will upset the chemical state of the battery. Bottom line- if you can't get concentrated acid, you can't bring up the SG of the battery. Don is correct in thinking that the charger may be the culprit since it is unlikely that both batteries have the same fault. Was the charger a high-rate booster type of unit? Also were the batteries warm to touch? Batteries can become a little warm during charging, but they should not above 110F or the heat can cause the plates to warp.
Tom, Please note that it is important to maintain the electrolyte level above the plates at all times. And you should add water to the cells before charging IF the level is at or below the plates. However, the level normally rises with charging so you don't want to adjust the level to the final or normal level until after charging. Most flooded cells want the normal level to be 1/4-3/8" above the plates or perhaps to 1/4" below the bottom of the fill tube that extends into the cell. Many fill tubes have a slot in their sides so that if the electrolyte expands to the bottom of the tube during charging, the charging gasses can escape through the slot instead of pushing the electrolyte out of the top of the cell. Regarding buying acid- The containers of battery acid that are available in auto supply stores is 1.265 SG electrolyte. This is intended to be added to dry-charged batteries when they are put in service. This is NOT the acid to add to a battery that has been over-watered. If you have a battery that has been inadvertently over-watered, it's SG will be well below 1.260-1.270 which is the normal value for a fully charged healthy battery. It will probably be 1.250 or below. In order to bring the AVERAGE SG up to 1.265, you need to add acid that is MORE concentrated than 1.265 so you need to get concentrated sulfuric acid from a lab. You don't want to dump all of the old battery acid out and refill completely because then you will upset the chemical state of the battery. Bottom line- if you can't get concentrated acid, you can't bring up the SG of the battery. Don is correct in thinking that the charger may be the culprit since it is unlikely that both batteries have the same fault. Was the charger a high-rate booster type of unit? Also were the batteries warm to touch? Batteries can become a little warm during charging, but they should not above 110F or the heat can cause the plates to warp.
finding the bad cells
I suspect your charging at too high a voltage and the cells are gassing and taking some of the water with them. The caps will not stop the water with this kind of excessive gassing. the question then becomes why is the battery overcharging. either the charger is bad or you have one or more shorted cells and the charger thinks the battery is dead. To find the bad cell without buying a hydrometer you can just stick the probes of your volt meter into the electrolite of adjecent cells (not onto the plates please) and read the cell voltage. For the first and last cells just use the battery terminal as the "adjacent cell". while I admit that the hydrometer is "the" way to measure cell charge it is plaged with not working after I add water to give me somethng to measure, needing to be compensated for temperature, and being made of glass. The volt meter works immedatly after adding water is automaticaly temperature compensated and a lot less prone to breakage! Cell voltage is 1/6th the battery voltage accross the terminals. You should see a uniform reading for all cells. Cells reading either higher than 1/6th or lower are an indication that the battery needs to be equlized or is on it's way out. A dead/shorted cell reads 0.0 volts no matter how much acid you put in it.
I suspect your charging at too high a voltage and the cells are gassing and taking some of the water with them. The caps will not stop the water with this kind of excessive gassing. the question then becomes why is the battery overcharging. either the charger is bad or you have one or more shorted cells and the charger thinks the battery is dead. To find the bad cell without buying a hydrometer you can just stick the probes of your volt meter into the electrolite of adjecent cells (not onto the plates please) and read the cell voltage. For the first and last cells just use the battery terminal as the "adjacent cell". while I admit that the hydrometer is "the" way to measure cell charge it is plaged with not working after I add water to give me somethng to measure, needing to be compensated for temperature, and being made of glass. The volt meter works immedatly after adding water is automaticaly temperature compensated and a lot less prone to breakage! Cell voltage is 1/6th the battery voltage accross the terminals. You should see a uniform reading for all cells. Cells reading either higher than 1/6th or lower are an indication that the battery needs to be equlized or is on it's way out. A dead/shorted cell reads 0.0 volts no matter how much acid you put in it.
Final Question
If I put a volt meter from '-' to '+' pole of my battery - what should I read to know whether or not I have a good battery? It's around 12 V - but not exact (I believe). Thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions. Tom Grass
If I put a volt meter from '-' to '+' pole of my battery - what should I read to know whether or not I have a good battery? It's around 12 V - but not exact (I believe). Thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions. Tom Grass
state of charge
The voltage must be measured when the battery is ‘at rest’. This means that there is no charge going into the battery and no load going out. Ideally the battery should be ‘at rest’ for a min of 20-30 minutes before measuring the voltage. Approximate values for a 12 Volt battery are: Voltage % SOC-- There is some variation in how these figures are quoted but this is a general guide: 12.57 100% 12.36 80 12.15 60 11.94 40 11.73 20 As you can see, the voltage range is fairly narrow so you need quite a good digital multimeter to measure these values.
The voltage must be measured when the battery is ‘at rest’. This means that there is no charge going into the battery and no load going out. Ideally the battery should be ‘at rest’ for a min of 20-30 minutes before measuring the voltage. Approximate values for a 12 Volt battery are: Voltage % SOC-- There is some variation in how these figures are quoted but this is a general guide: 12.57 100% 12.36 80 12.15 60 11.94 40 11.73 20 As you can see, the voltage range is fairly narrow so you need quite a good digital multimeter to measure these values.
Why wait?
Using a volt meter as I mentioned above you can test while charging or discharging. Just remember the cell voltage is 1/6th the voltage measured at the terminals and all the cells should be very nearly the same. Also, when you test a battery you usually charge it to some standard (varies by battery type) and then put a known heavy load on it and watch the voltage (a 1000 watt hair dryer is a bit much but does the trick.) The voltage will drop off the "charged up" voltage very quickly but then stabilize at around 12.6 volts with a steady slow drop in voltage. A bad battery will hold up for a few seconds at around 12.6 and then show a rapidly increasing voltage drop. Try doing that with a hydrometer. BTW I've seen batteries that have great hydrometer readings that are all sulfated up and have no capacity. Sure they have the right voltage at rest but put a load on them and they quickly go to 10 volt or less. I note that I don't really care what my hydrometer reading is but I do care about the voltage. Hydrometers are great and if you want to invest the time and effort in to making a database for each batter over time you can glean a lot of useful information. I believe that boating is about fun and not databases. Better, IMHO, to keep my cheap wet cell batteries topped off, clean, and if I have to trouble shoot one then get it done fast and get it right. The measurement of cell voltage allows you to do that while a hydrometer does not.
Using a volt meter as I mentioned above you can test while charging or discharging. Just remember the cell voltage is 1/6th the voltage measured at the terminals and all the cells should be very nearly the same. Also, when you test a battery you usually charge it to some standard (varies by battery type) and then put a known heavy load on it and watch the voltage (a 1000 watt hair dryer is a bit much but does the trick.) The voltage will drop off the "charged up" voltage very quickly but then stabilize at around 12.6 volts with a steady slow drop in voltage. A bad battery will hold up for a few seconds at around 12.6 and then show a rapidly increasing voltage drop. Try doing that with a hydrometer. BTW I've seen batteries that have great hydrometer readings that are all sulfated up and have no capacity. Sure they have the right voltage at rest but put a load on them and they quickly go to 10 volt or less. I note that I don't really care what my hydrometer reading is but I do care about the voltage. Hydrometers are great and if you want to invest the time and effort in to making a database for each batter over time you can glean a lot of useful information. I believe that boating is about fun and not databases. Better, IMHO, to keep my cheap wet cell batteries topped off, clean, and if I have to trouble shoot one then get it done fast and get it right. The measurement of cell voltage allows you to do that while a hydrometer does not.
Bill's hair dryer
Bill - how to you connect the hair dryer? Use a 1000 watt inverter? I have only 200 and 300-watt inverters, for laptops, charging cell phones and camera batteries, etc.
Bill - how to you connect the hair dryer? Use a 1000 watt inverter? I have only 200 and 300-watt inverters, for laptops, charging cell phones and camera batteries, etc.
Well let me tell you.....
The admiral can't live with out it and I don't want to be around her when she is deprived of the "basic necessities of life". The boat came with a 3000 watt inverter so it was just a matter of cleaning up the battery terminals and insuring she does not "go overboard" on using her power tools.
The admiral can't live with out it and I don't want to be around her when she is deprived of the "basic necessities of life". The boat came with a 3000 watt inverter so it was just a matter of cleaning up the battery terminals and insuring she does not "go overboard" on using her power tools.
Charger
I recall hearing that using an automotive charger isn't a great idea. A 2-stage or 3-stage charger, which decreases output as the battery reaches full charge, is the much safer option and possibly would have avoided the problem you ran into.
I recall hearing that using an automotive charger isn't a great idea. A 2-stage or 3-stage charger, which decreases output as the battery reaches full charge, is the much safer option and possibly would have avoided the problem you ran into.
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