The topping lift on my 1992 (new to me) Hunter 30 exits the mast on the port side but does not have a cleat to hold it; currently it is being tied off on the ring on the front of the mast. It's a real pain to adjust. On the starboard side of the mast, I have the main halyard, the jib halyard (for the genoa on the roller furling), and an extra jib halyard. The main halyard and the rollerfurling jib halyard all run to stoppers on deck towards the cockpit. The old/extra jib halyard has a cleat on the mast. I need some way of cleating off the topping lift. I thought about just installing a regular horn cleat for it on the mast, but I am reluctant to start drilling holes in the mast without knowing the boat a little better and pursuing other options/ideas. I don't want to install a cleat only to find out that it's really in the way or the genoa sheet snags on it every time we tack. Is the horn cleat the best solution? What other ideas? Any suggestion for exactly where to put it? Thanks!
Basic question - need cleat on mast??
- Thread starter Sherry
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Re: Topping Lift
Sherry, Do you know what kind of mast and boom you have? Is it an Isomat? I have an Isomat on my 28.5 and the topping lift runs through the boom and exits just below the gooseneck. There's a small lever under there that allows me to adjust the topping lift and then push the lever against the line to hold it. (There's actually three lines through my boom each with a "locking lever"; topping, outhaul and reef) These levers have "teeth" similar to a cam cleat. I believe most of the Isomats have this feature. You can tell an Isomat boom by the distinct shape. If you were to look at a "cross section" of it, it's actually octagonal rather than oval or round.
Sherry, Do you know what kind of mast and boom you have? Is it an Isomat? I have an Isomat on my 28.5 and the topping lift runs through the boom and exits just below the gooseneck. There's a small lever under there that allows me to adjust the topping lift and then push the lever against the line to hold it. (There's actually three lines through my boom each with a "locking lever"; topping, outhaul and reef) These levers have "teeth" similar to a cam cleat. I believe most of the Isomats have this feature. You can tell an Isomat boom by the distinct shape. If you were to look at a "cross section" of it, it's actually octagonal rather than oval or round.
not sure about topping lift?
Dave, I'm not sure about the spars. I will look when I'm on the boat later this week. Having only sailed the boat twice (once with the previous owner and once this weekend with a novice crew), I am still learning so much about her. I haven't adjusted the outhaul yet. I know my reefing line runs to a stopper (along with the previously mentioned halyards) labeled 'centerboard' of all things. The previous owner and I looked at the steps required for reefing but didn't actually do it. And I know that the bottom side of the boom has one (maybe more??) cam cleat type teeth things under it, but I haven't sorted all of that out yet. So maybe I have my solution at hand and don't know it. But I'm not sure I understand how the topping lift could be under there. The aft end of the topping lift is attached to the boom with a shackle. The other end of it exits from a hole on the mast. So how could the topping lift be held by the cam cleat device under the boom??? I'm having a hard time seeing that? I will definitely do some more checking before I start drilling
Dave, I'm not sure about the spars. I will look when I'm on the boat later this week. Having only sailed the boat twice (once with the previous owner and once this weekend with a novice crew), I am still learning so much about her. I haven't adjusted the outhaul yet. I know my reefing line runs to a stopper (along with the previously mentioned halyards) labeled 'centerboard' of all things. The previous owner and I looked at the steps required for reefing but didn't actually do it. And I know that the bottom side of the boom has one (maybe more??) cam cleat type teeth things under it, but I haven't sorted all of that out yet. So maybe I have my solution at hand and don't know it. But I'm not sure I understand how the topping lift could be under there. The aft end of the topping lift is attached to the boom with a shackle. The other end of it exits from a hole on the mast. So how could the topping lift be held by the cam cleat device under the boom??? I'm having a hard time seeing that? I will definitely do some more checking before I start drilling
check this...
Could it be that the topping lift used to run aft to the cockpit... maybe through an organizer of some type? It would be easily adjustable there. On my Hunter 31 the topping lift is secured by tying it to a small horn cleat fastened to the boom.
Could it be that the topping lift used to run aft to the cockpit... maybe through an organizer of some type? It would be easily adjustable there. On my Hunter 31 the topping lift is secured by tying it to a small horn cleat fastened to the boom.
Re: Answer
Sherry, Sounds like you have the answer. If the topping lift is attached to the end of the boom with a shackle, then the only adjustment is from the other end as you surmised. Looks like there's a cleat installation in your future.)
Sherry, Sounds like you have the answer. If the topping lift is attached to the end of the boom with a shackle, then the only adjustment is from the other end as you surmised. Looks like there's a cleat installation in your future.
)
Perhaps...
your topping lift was re-rigged differently from its original configuration. It seems yours now ties off at the end of the boom, runs up to a sheave at the mast-head, and down to exit the mast, at which point you'd expect a cleat. What Dave seems to be describing matches the way our old 1991 H23 was rigged. The topping lift tied off at the mast-head, ran diagonally along the leach (aft end) of the sail down to the aft end of the boom, around a sheave, and through the boom to the gooseneck (at the mast). At the gooseneck end of the boom, there was a "locking lever" type cleat. If you have these 3 levers at the gooseneck end of your boom, but one is unused, then I bet some previous owner changed the configuration. So one solution, which would require climbing or dropping the mast, would just be to re-run the line the original way. Assuming that my guess is right....
your topping lift was re-rigged differently from its original configuration. It seems yours now ties off at the end of the boom, runs up to a sheave at the mast-head, and down to exit the mast, at which point you'd expect a cleat. What Dave seems to be describing matches the way our old 1991 H23 was rigged. The topping lift tied off at the mast-head, ran diagonally along the leach (aft end) of the sail down to the aft end of the boom, around a sheave, and through the boom to the gooseneck (at the mast). At the gooseneck end of the boom, there was a "locking lever" type cleat. If you have these 3 levers at the gooseneck end of your boom, but one is unused, then I bet some previous owner changed the configuration. So one solution, which would require climbing or dropping the mast, would just be to re-run the line the original way. Assuming that my guess is right...
.I'll look . . .
I'll look more closely, based on info you guys provided, this week when I'm on the boat. I like the idea of running it thru the boom - assuming there's a sheave there to hold it and that the cleat at the forward end of the boom would work . . . may pursue this. Otherwise, I like the idea you suggested of running it to the cockpit. I'm no where near ready yet, but eventually I would like to single hand this boat, so the more I have in the cockpit, the better, right? Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll update you. And thanks for explaining how it works on other boats; I was having a hard time picturing it running thru the boom, but that makes sense.
I'll look more closely, based on info you guys provided, this week when I'm on the boat. I like the idea of running it thru the boom - assuming there's a sheave there to hold it and that the cleat at the forward end of the boom would work . . . may pursue this. Otherwise, I like the idea you suggested of running it to the cockpit. I'm no where near ready yet, but eventually I would like to single hand this boat, so the more I have in the cockpit, the better, right? Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll update you. And thanks for explaining how it works on other boats; I was having a hard time picturing it running thru the boom, but that makes sense.
Re: Isomat rig
Thanks Jay. You stated it much more clearly than I did. Your description exactly matches the way my topping lift is rigged.
Thanks Jay. You stated it much more clearly than I did. Your description exactly matches the way my topping lift is rigged.
Dave
No problem. It sounded like these 28.5's are rigged just like the 1991 H23 we just sold. It's pretty confusing when you first get a new boat, especially if you're new to sailing and the boat's not rigged when you get it. More so if the PO modified the setup!
No problem. It sounded like these 28.5's are rigged just like the 1991 H23 we just sold. It's pretty confusing when you first get a new boat, especially if you're new to sailing and the boat's not rigged when you get it. More so if the PO modified the setup!
Re: second reef
Was the second reef an option? I still have the original main and it has only one reef point. I can't say whether the topping lift rigged through the boom was rigged that way from the factory. Seems like a reasonable way to adjust the topping lift though.
Was the second reef an option? I still have the original main and it has only one reef point. I can't say whether the topping lift rigged through the boom was rigged that way from the factory. Seems like a reasonable way to adjust the topping lift though.
Topping Lift On My 30T
My 30T (1991) undoubtedly has the same rigging as your 1992. My topping lift is secured to end of the boom, enters the Isomat mast at mast head and exits on port side about two feet above the boom. About four to six inches below the boom a cleat is mounted so topping lift can be tied off. Cleat is secured by four aluminum rivets and I am sure was factory installed. Location of the cleat is somewhat of a pain and it would be much more convenient if topping lift terminated in cockpit through a jam cleat but I have never gotten around to this modification.
My 30T (1991) undoubtedly has the same rigging as your 1992. My topping lift is secured to end of the boom, enters the Isomat mast at mast head and exits on port side about two feet above the boom. About four to six inches below the boom a cleat is mounted so topping lift can be tied off. Cleat is secured by four aluminum rivets and I am sure was factory installed. Location of the cleat is somewhat of a pain and it would be much more convenient if topping lift terminated in cockpit through a jam cleat but I have never gotten around to this modification.
Topping lift to cockpit
Just did this at the beginning of season based on recommendation of sailmaker (new main this season). With a dutchman flaking system, it is recommended to ease the topping lift once the sails are raised for better shape. First time out, going forward and releasing the topping lift from the cleat on the mast was a pain. It took me a little while to find (West marine looked at me like I had three heads) but I found the right swivel block from shaefer to lead the topping lift back to the cockpit and organizer (had one open slot). Anyway, this works great, just have to constantly remind myself to tighted the topping life up before I drop the main (yep, done it twice now, what a mess when the boom drops into the cockpit. But in time, it will become second nature just like so many other things about sailing.
Just did this at the beginning of season based on recommendation of sailmaker (new main this season). With a dutchman flaking system, it is recommended to ease the topping lift once the sails are raised for better shape. First time out, going forward and releasing the topping lift from the cleat on the mast was a pain. It took me a little while to find (West marine looked at me like I had three heads) but I found the right swivel block from shaefer to lead the topping lift back to the cockpit and organizer (had one open slot). Anyway, this works great, just have to constantly remind myself to tighted the topping life up before I drop the main (yep, done it twice now, what a mess when the boom drops into the cockpit. But in time, it will become second nature just like so many other things about sailing.
How?
Shippy, Can you share with me the block you used? I don't have an open slot in my organizer, so I will have to install an additional one as well. Also, my organizer is on starboard and handles things coming out of the starboard side of the mast. But my topping lift is coming out of the port side of the mast. Thanks for any details you can give me. Sherry
Shippy, Can you share with me the block you used? I don't have an open slot in my organizer, so I will have to install an additional one as well. Also, my organizer is on starboard and handles things coming out of the starboard side of the mast. But my topping lift is coming out of the port side of the mast. Thanks for any details you can give me. Sherry
Topping Lift and Organizer
I have the same H30. Normally the topping lift exits the mast and is tied off on a cleat riveted to the mast as in the photo in the thread above. If you don't have a second organizer on the port side, adding it is easy. If you remove the splash hood, you'll see the mounting blocks. There are aluminimum plates under the fiberglass at the organizer mount site and on the cabin top for mounting additional line clutches. Use a drill and tap ($15.00 at Sears) for easiest and stronges mounting. I also would drill and tap rather than rivet if you are going to add anything like a cleat to the mast. Garhauer Marine (good web site) still makes the exact model you need, and it is of higher quality and lower price than Schaffer or Lewmar. I rerouted all of my lines to the cockpit, including the outhaul and topping lift, to the cabin edge using Spinlock powercleats. It is very handy to move the traveler lines to the aft cabin edge too, since as you learn to sail the boat, you'll learn that the traveler is a key element of keeping the boat flat and fast in higher winds. So, just follow these easy steps: 1. Spend money on these very necessary modifications. 2. Work on the boat, installing, etc. 3. Go sailing. 4. Go back to step one. P.S. The clam cleat on your boom was probably for a reef line or outhaul. I can't imagine the topping lift there, but then.....
I have the same H30. Normally the topping lift exits the mast and is tied off on a cleat riveted to the mast as in the photo in the thread above. If you don't have a second organizer on the port side, adding it is easy. If you remove the splash hood, you'll see the mounting blocks. There are aluminimum plates under the fiberglass at the organizer mount site and on the cabin top for mounting additional line clutches. Use a drill and tap ($15.00 at Sears) for easiest and stronges mounting. I also would drill and tap rather than rivet if you are going to add anything like a cleat to the mast. Garhauer Marine (good web site) still makes the exact model you need, and it is of higher quality and lower price than Schaffer or Lewmar. I rerouted all of my lines to the cockpit, including the outhaul and topping lift, to the cabin edge using Spinlock powercleats. It is very handy to move the traveler lines to the aft cabin edge too, since as you learn to sail the boat, you'll learn that the traveler is a key element of keeping the boat flat and fast in higher winds. So, just follow these easy steps: 1. Spend money on these very necessary modifications. 2. Work on the boat, installing, etc. 3. Go sailing. 4. Go back to step one. P.S. The clam cleat on your boom was probably for a reef line or outhaul. I can't imagine the topping lift there, but then.....
follow up questions
Dean, Thanks for the good advice. Follow up questions: I wonder if the jib halyard used to exit the mast on the port side and the topping lift on the starboard side? There's a cleat on stbd. I have two jib halyards - an 'old' one and a 'new' one according to the PO. Both on stbd. The old one is cleated off. The new one runs to the stopper at the cockpit. What do I use at the mast base to route the topping lift from its exit hole on the mast back to the stopper? I'm not sure exactly where you're recommending to move the traveler. Mine is currently in front of the companionway hatch. I am attaching a pix that shows the end of the traveler and, from your description, what I think is the place to mount the port side stopper/organizer? Is that right? While I'm doing it, should I just go ahead and install a double or triple organizer instead of just a single? Thanks!
Dean, Thanks for the good advice. Follow up questions: I wonder if the jib halyard used to exit the mast on the port side and the topping lift on the starboard side? There's a cleat on stbd. I have two jib halyards - an 'old' one and a 'new' one according to the PO. Both on stbd. The old one is cleated off. The new one runs to the stopper at the cockpit. What do I use at the mast base to route the topping lift from its exit hole on the mast back to the stopper? I'm not sure exactly where you're recommending to move the traveler. Mine is currently in front of the companionway hatch. I am attaching a pix that shows the end of the traveler and, from your description, what I think is the place to mount the port side stopper/organizer? Is that right? While I'm doing it, should I just go ahead and install a double or triple organizer instead of just a single? Thanks!
Follow Up Answers
Originally, both the jib and main halyards exited on the starboard side, along with the mainsheet. This is because the stock boat came with only a starboard winch for raising the halyards (looks like you have only one). The topping lift and spinnaker halyard exited the port side because they don't usually require the use of a winch. The second "jib" halyard is probably a spinnaker halyard. The boat came with a fished line tied off at the base of the mast so that a halyard could be easily added. If you add an assymetric sail, this is what you would use. Look carefully (with binoculars, or go up the mast), and you should find that this halyard exits over a sheave just above the very top of the jib halyard and forestay. Perhaps for racing somebody re-routed your lines (topping lift to starboard, etc.), but it is quite a job to do it... Meanwhile, to route lines from the base of the mast to the cockpit, you use a standard block fastened to a fitting that you get from Rig-Rite (Google) who is the sole supplier of Isomat parts in the U.S. Very good folks, very fast service. A pin fits into one of the holes at the base of the mast, and a special bolt slides into a horizontal slot below it, so fittings and blocks can be added without removing the mast. The slot also holds the nut perfectly, so you don't need a wrench (French design ingenuity). I wasn't suggesting that you move the traveler, just the cam cleats from the end of the traveler to the aft edge of the coach roof. With no dodger, this is less of an issue. I have a dodger, and it was always a hassle to lift the traveler lines enough to release them from the cam cleats. So I removed the cam cleats from the traveler, and installed the Spinlock cleats. You could use cam cleats as well; I got the idea from looking at other boats in the marina. It just puts all of your lines in closer reach of the helm. What you are calling a "stopper" is usually called a clutch. Yes, you mount it between your hatch and the companionway, exactly opposite the starboard set of clutches. This is where you'll find the aluminum plate for mounting. Drill a small pilot whole first, to make sure you find metal shavings. Then use a drill and tap to thread a hole for a machine screw. A wood screw thread won't be strong enough, and will shatter the gel coat. You can add one clutch now, and more later, or buy two or three in a set. A deck organizer is a set of sheaves laid flat next to each other so lines can turn direction. You must have one on the starboard side, with four sheaves, where your sheets come down the mast to its base, then turn over the organizer and back under the splash hood to your line clutches on the top of the cabin. Most boats don't have a splash hood; look around your marina. Making sense yet? You will need to add the organizer too, or there will be too much friction on any lines you run to the cockpit. I'll be at my boat tomorrow, will take the camera, and will try to post some pictures tomorrow night. Feel free to e-mail me through the owners directory. I've done a lot of modifications (sails, rigging, electrical, plumbing)and will be glad to answer your questions. D.
Originally, both the jib and main halyards exited on the starboard side, along with the mainsheet. This is because the stock boat came with only a starboard winch for raising the halyards (looks like you have only one). The topping lift and spinnaker halyard exited the port side because they don't usually require the use of a winch. The second "jib" halyard is probably a spinnaker halyard. The boat came with a fished line tied off at the base of the mast so that a halyard could be easily added. If you add an assymetric sail, this is what you would use. Look carefully (with binoculars, or go up the mast), and you should find that this halyard exits over a sheave just above the very top of the jib halyard and forestay. Perhaps for racing somebody re-routed your lines (topping lift to starboard, etc.), but it is quite a job to do it... Meanwhile, to route lines from the base of the mast to the cockpit, you use a standard block fastened to a fitting that you get from Rig-Rite (Google) who is the sole supplier of Isomat parts in the U.S. Very good folks, very fast service. A pin fits into one of the holes at the base of the mast, and a special bolt slides into a horizontal slot below it, so fittings and blocks can be added without removing the mast. The slot also holds the nut perfectly, so you don't need a wrench (French design ingenuity). I wasn't suggesting that you move the traveler, just the cam cleats from the end of the traveler to the aft edge of the coach roof. With no dodger, this is less of an issue. I have a dodger, and it was always a hassle to lift the traveler lines enough to release them from the cam cleats. So I removed the cam cleats from the traveler, and installed the Spinlock cleats. You could use cam cleats as well; I got the idea from looking at other boats in the marina. It just puts all of your lines in closer reach of the helm. What you are calling a "stopper" is usually called a clutch. Yes, you mount it between your hatch and the companionway, exactly opposite the starboard set of clutches. This is where you'll find the aluminum plate for mounting. Drill a small pilot whole first, to make sure you find metal shavings. Then use a drill and tap to thread a hole for a machine screw. A wood screw thread won't be strong enough, and will shatter the gel coat. You can add one clutch now, and more later, or buy two or three in a set. A deck organizer is a set of sheaves laid flat next to each other so lines can turn direction. You must have one on the starboard side, with four sheaves, where your sheets come down the mast to its base, then turn over the organizer and back under the splash hood to your line clutches on the top of the cabin. Most boats don't have a splash hood; look around your marina. Making sense yet? You will need to add the organizer too, or there will be too much friction on any lines you run to the cockpit. I'll be at my boat tomorrow, will take the camera, and will try to post some pictures tomorrow night. Feel free to e-mail me through the owners directory. I've done a lot of modifications (sails, rigging, electrical, plumbing)and will be glad to answer your questions. D.
Dean - thanks!
Dean, GREAT explanations! Thanks! I am heading to the boat tonight, and I will take this with me and look over everything more thoroughly. Thanks again! Sherry
Dean, GREAT explanations! Thanks! I am heading to the boat tonight, and I will take this with me and look over everything more thoroughly. Thanks again! Sherry
Schaefer Blocks
I did look at the ones from rig-right, but since my existing blocks were all schaefer, I stayed with Schaefer for this one two. I ordered the larger block, but the smaller one would work just fine. The part number is 505-20 (smaller block) and 705-20 (larger block). These are made for the isomat mast and work just like Dean states. Good luck....
I did look at the ones from rig-right, but since my existing blocks were all schaefer, I stayed with Schaefer for this one two. I ordered the larger block, but the smaller one would work just fine. The part number is 505-20 (smaller block) and 705-20 (larger block). These are made for the isomat mast and work just like Dean states. Good luck....
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