Barrier Coat Failure: Who is responsible?

[Dean Strong]

I'm just finishing up a major three week ordeal with defective barrier coat epoxy paint. Sanded her down to the gel coat, and applied 10mil of epoxy primer barrier coat per directions (even consulted the factory). Turns out the hardener in all of the gallon kits (comes in a two part boxed kit) was either really old, or not even hardener at all (it is being evaluated). The paint never hardened (18 days and counting) beyond the consistency of putty. The manufacturer has admitted there have been problems with this lot/batch.

The manufacturer has offered to replace the product.

The cost/bid to remove the defective coating (can't sand it, its too soft), restore the hull to prior condition, and reapply the barrier coat is $3,800 (including haul out charges & yard time).

Who should pay? The customer (me)? The retailer who sold me the paint? The manufacturer of the paint? Insurance? Other?

I'm interested in your opinion. I'll post the complete report with photos and video of this amazing story in a few days. Thanks.

 

[jibes138]

There is probably a disclaimer somewhere on the can or in the warranty that the manufacturer is responsible to replace the defective product, but not for liquidated damages. You will likely need to retain legal counsel to pursue any attempt to recover all this cost and the lawyer will probably cost just as much at a couple hundred an hour. What brand so we know what to stay away from?
If an entire lot was bad there must be others out there with the same problem. Could this be a shelf life problem and the store selling it sold you outdated product? Were they selling it at a big discount?

 

[Tim R.]

Who did you purchase the paint from? If they had it that long there must have been others with the same problem.

Small Claims Court may be the best route if they refuse to pay.

I would start by getting the regional rep for that paint to come look at the boat. It is much harder to deny someone compensation face to face.

Just out of curiosity, why is the boat in slings? I bet your boatyard is not happy about getting the goo all over their straps. Who are they going after to clean that mess?

 

[Bob J.]

This is standard fare in almost any industry. The manufacturer will replace the product under their warranty but won't pay for the labor. You're in a tuff place..

Who's product is it?

 

[anchorclanker]

If all your after is labor and materials (to make you whole), and you ask the company to pay it, that is reasonable. Regardless of what the company claims is their limit of liability, you always retain the right to sue. If you have evidence you can show a court that they knowingly sold a product they knew was defective, the odds shift in your favor. If they dont cough up the costs your asking for I would sue in small claims for the real damages. If nothing else it will get their attention and you need to do something to protect yourself. If that boat yard transfers any paint to other boats, could you be liable?

I sued an insurance company in small claims over an auto policy they cancelled on me without cause, and asked for treble damages. They tried to make the claim it needed to be heard in district court but once filed the court had to hear it anyway. They settled out of court rather than possibly pay some lawyer more than I was asking and still lose.

 

[Dean Strong]

Can a person on the west coast sue someone on the east coast in small claims court? How does that work?

There is no warranty on the can or the website.

The boat is is slings because the project was started at my marina yard where there are no marine stores and only mobile vendors. The paint manufacturer agreed that the boat should be moved to the dealer, who has a full service boat yard. The boat was in the water over night, and at haul out, it was evident that this two part epoxy was water soluble.

At issue for the dealer is that this was from a new shipment, and the manufacturer had not issued any kind of a recall.

I'm withholding the name of the paint company until the project is complete and the company has made its final offer. It consistently ranks near the top of Practical Sailor tests.

 

[kenn]

If the manufacturer, once they knew there was a batch problem duly notified all vendors... and the vendor you or the yard bought it from was notified, but sold one from the bad batch to you anyway... then I'd say the vendor bears at least part of the liability.

 

[KD3PC]

Can a person on the west coast sue someone on the east coast in small claims court? How does that work?

that all depends on the state....I know that in Stamford,CT (I Live in VA) you have to appear at least once to start the process, as it could not be done by mail, electronic or other wise. - not sure about the hearings themselves. I gave up after that, as it would cost more to appear twice....

others may offer their experience, but I would not expect to be made whole via small claims in another state....unless you have time and money to wager.

 

[Tim R.]

Can a person on the west coast sue someone on the east coast in small claims court? How does that work?

A friend here in Maine bought a BBQ grill from a woman in MD(via ebay). There were non-disclosed problems with it and she refused to make right. He sued her in small claims and he won. It may have been by default because she did not want to appear in court in Maine.

 

[Photo Bug]

Court is not the way to go. Even if you do win they are smart enough to know that if they do not pay you, you will have to go to the next level of court. You will have to have a lawyer to do that and you will have to find something for the court to attach and sell at auction and that will be very hard. You know what a better idea is? Get a gallon or acetone and go to work.

 

[BobM]

Options

If you need to work with the vendor in WA, mediation through the AG's office.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/FileAComplaint.aspx

They say they won't work out of WA state, but in my experience companies hate being contacted by the government. For example, it is probably a violation of some EPA laws for them to sell an epoxy product that dissolves in the ocean.

Also, if you are a BoatUS member they also mediate cases like this and have helped make many boat owners whole.

http://my.boatus.com/consumer/dispute.asp

 

[thinwater]

First lesson: when doing a large job with a 2-part system ALWAYS do a test batch in a cup, to confirm...
-- that it hardens
-- working time at temperature
Experience contractors make up a small amount in a cup before starting.

I had just this happen ~ 25 years ago for me on a refinery job--the hardener was not hardener, learned my lesson and will not make that mistake again. I do a test first, for any new product if the project is signifigant. It gives me a lot of confidence and tells me something re how the product will apply.

Second, it will prodably come off will scraping followed by a solvent (toluene, xylene--vaires with the product. Bad, but not so bad. Also, a part of the recoat cost--the material, will be cover by the manufacturer.

--------------

A hard lesson. If persuation doesn't work there is alway the threat of public humiliation. But court is a waste. If you did it yourself, you can do it again....

 

[finding41]

Get the paint stripper out now while it is still wet. It will come off like a hot knife through butter. (Or something through a goose.)
It is probably a 2-3 day job to strip and re finish. (May be 8-10 man hours!) The other time is drying time. The job can be done on a cradle with adjustable pads.
$3800 to do the job. That's crazy! I have to start doing renovations on boats!

 

[Douglast]

if the two part was allowed to stand for the specified time in your ambiant temps before application and was mixed well it should have been reasonably hard in a couple hours and recoat within the 5 to 24 hour period..i really have had great luck with interlux two part..

i feel for ya..they may not go good for anything but they might pay ya to keep quite...haha..

well practice makes perfect, if i was closer i would gladly help ya the second time around if you supplied the spirits..

 

[Douglast]

First lesson: when doing a large job with a 2-part system ALWAYS do a test batch in a cup, to confirm...
-- that it hardens
-- working time at temperature
Experience contractors make up a small amount in a cup before starting.

I had just this happen ~ 25 years ago for me on a refinery job--the hardener was not hardener, learned my lesson and will not make that mistake again. I do a test first, for any new product if the project is signifigant. It gives me a lot of confidence and tells me something re how the product will apply.

Second, it will prodably come off will scraping followed by a solvent (toluene, xylene--vaires with the product. Bad, but not so bad. Also, a part of the recoat cost--the material, will be cover by the manufacturer.

--------------

A hard lesson. If persuation doesn't work there is alway the threat of public humiliation. But court is a waste. If you did it yourself, you can do it again....

excellent advice..

 

[Dean Strong]

So far...

I didn't grab the acetone, but did grab the soap and water, since we knew it dissolved in water. In fact it did pressure wash right off, but the yard manager stopped it for the obvious reasons. So my wife and I grabbed a couple of wide putty knives and scraped off two gallons. Saturday and Sunday I got it all off with Dawn detergent and water. As of today I've recoated with four coats of Interlux 2000e (which I did test), one coat of hard bottom paint and a first coat of ablative. Tomorrow will be 2nd coat of ablative, then move the stands and do the cycle again. I do still hope to recoup my expenses from the manufacturer using some of the ideas above.

 

[anchorclanker]

You dont ever need a lawyer to file suit or collect. What you need is knowledge which is quite easy to gain. Collecting is only really difficult with private individuals who hide everything or dont have any assets. Businesses that have any worth are quite easy to collect from.

If a company does business in your state, which they have done by selling the product in your state through their vendor, you should be able to sue them in your state.

I would ask them to pay your losses and if they wont budge, tell them your going to take it to court as well as contact the BBB and other organizations.

 

[MrBee]

And don't forget about the NET. The last thing a company like them needs is a lot of pictures showing up on the net about their product and the trouble it caused !
I would give them time to make it right but they should cover ALL cost including your labor. They wanted the boat moved to a dealer for a reason...

 

[Squidd]

Just for grins...Does it say anywhere on the lable anything like " try in an inconspicous spot for compatabilty" or anything like that...?

I think Thinwater pretty much nailed it... test first...

Beside the "product only replacement" warranty, the consumer needs to buckel up to "some" responsibilty toward product acceptabilty before they do the whole boat bottom...

 

[CharlieCobra]

We just stripped a boat to Gelcoat, re-applied barrier coat and bottom paint on a customer's boat for free because of a failed barrier coat/bottom paint bond. The only thing he paid for was the bottom paint because it was supplied by him the first time and suspect in the failure. $3,800 seems excessive for a 30' boat.

As far as limitations on paint costs, a company we deal with paid for labor AND materials for a screwed paint job due to product two years ago.