Balmar Smartgauge, ProMariner Charger & Odyssey Battery

[haebby]

Hi - looking for someone who can help with the following: We have an Odyssey 31M-PC2150 house battery, a ProMariner Pronautic 1240p charger, and a Balmar Smartgauge on our boat. The Balmar Smartgauge is set to the AGM battery type. Following the instructions in the Odyssey Approved 12V Charger Listing, the ProMariner charger is set to AGM Profile 1, which according the ProMariner manual should output 14.4 VDC in conditioning mode. However, when our charger is in conditioning mode, the charger itself displays an output voltage of 14.6 V (and 0.4A.) At the same time, the Balmar Smartgauge reads 14.70 - 14.8 V and throws a Error 3 (Battery voltage has been above acceptable level for battery type) after a few seconds.

1. With the Odyssey 31M-PC2150 battery, is it it correct to set the Balmar Smartgauge to battery type AGM?
2. With the Odyssey 31M-PC2150 battery, is it correct to set the ProMariner charger to AGM Profile 1?
3. Why does the ProMariner charger output 14.6 V in conditioning mode when the description of the AGM profile 1 states it would ouput 14.4 V?
4. Why does the Balmar Smartgauge read 14.8 V and even higher, triggering Error code 3?

Any help and advice appreciated! Thanks.

 

[SeanG]

I have the Promariner 1260P. I have experienced a LOT of trouble with charging my Flooded (lead-acid) 8D cells. I had the battery charger set in accordance with the Promariner owners / operators manual. I was seeing the same higher voltage readings as you have. Also, the batteries were extremely hot while charging and gassing excessively. I called Promariner customer service. They said the higher voltage reading being 0.2 or 0.3 volts over the expected as listed on the unit label was not a problem and was to account for line loss. I was not believing this, but… In a little over two years, I went through all three 8D cells and two Group 27 batteries. After the expensive replacement of all batteries and further discussions with Promariner customer “care” I performed a factory reset on the 1260P. I removed the Group 27 from the battery charger completely. These “smart chargers” are not really “smart”. Then following the recommendation of the customer care rep, I stepped down the charger output voltage by not following the explicit instructions in their manual. I changed the Profile Flooded to Sealed and Preset 1. This lowered the charging voltage, the battery charger seems to step through charging modes in normal sequence and at a proper rate, battery charging temperature is significantly lower, and the gassing problem is non-existent so having to refill with distilled water has gone from every three-weeks to perhaps every three-month. So, do I think there is a problem with Promariner’s battery chargers, yes. I suspect it is their device’s computer software logic. I can’t advise you on where to go from AGM Profile Preset 1. But overcharging batteries is a dangerous business and a real fire hazard. Get on top of this very soon. Good luck.

 

[AlanSD]

We sell the Pronautics and a number of other chargers, and while I find the voltages to be generally in the ballpark, there are exceptions. I would suggest checking the output of any charger with a volt meter of known accuracy. Don't forget to allow for the temperature compensation of the charger using either the ambient temperature or the temp at the battery post, if a remote temp probe is attached (which it should be with the Pronautic). Pomariner doesn't publish their compensation settings, but figure on adding about 0.1V for every 5°C (9°F) below 25°C (77°F), and subtracting 0.1V above that.

Since your charger is displaying an incorrect voltage, and it's not just inaccurate metering, you could try a factory reset. Go to SETUP and cycle through the battery types until it displays FAC DEF, the hit SETUP again. No guarantees, but sometimes it helps. If not, sounds like a warranty issue.

By the way, Sean is correct to be skeptical - the charger should not boost it's voltage to compensate for line losses unless it has a remote sense (which the Pronautic does not). The manufacturer assumes that you have correctly sized cables and that losses are controlled.

 

[BillBay36]

we bought our stuff from maine sailor he was thorough with his support. we unplug the temp probe for winter and plug back in when temp gets to 70.

 

[Blitz]

we bought our stuff from maine sailor he was thorough with his support. we unplug the temp probe for winter and plug back in when temp gets to 70.

I didn't know maine sail suggested that.

 

[Blitz]

I am curious also where this thread goes. I have the ProMariner ProNauticP Series 1230P and have similar issues. I use a custom setting for my US battery group 31 batteries for the House, with a Blue Sea ACR for the Group 27 reserve battery.

I have not done a factory reset.

I find that my charger charges up to 15.1 volts even though the profile is set to 14.7 volts, but then reduces to 13.1 for a float charge after a few hours. BUT here is the kicker, this only happens when the boat is out of the water on the hard. I'm curious if the others having this problem is occurring when the boat is in the water or not??? The charger is not saying it is in the equalization phase either.

I had a very similar problem with my previous Victron charger so I'm not sure if the grounding is different or something out of the water. I know the service is different in that it's a 15 amp service where I plug in compared to 30 amp at the slip, but that shouldn't matter I would think.

I also have my temperature sensor hooked up, always thought that what it is there for. I see this issue whether it 20 degrees outside, or in the 50s like last weekend or the 70s a few weeks ago.

I don't have any solar hooked up so that's not interfering.

Hoping for suggestions as well.

 

[Maine Sail]

Keep in-mind that temp sensors adjust the regulation voltage UP when the batteries are cold and DOWN when batteries are hot. Compensating UP when the batteries are being used regularly is fine. When you are hauled out the battery will be idle at 100% SOC and at ambient or follow it somewhat based on the thermal mass of the battery. If this is below about 65F the voltage will begin being compensated UP. I am not a fan of compensating UP stored batteries just DOWN. If you are in a climate that causes the charger to compensate UP for storage you can simply unplug the sensor.

For storage, when an owner demands they have power all winter, I equalize (if possible for battery type) then unplug/disconnect the temp sensor from the chargers RJ11 port. In most cases I 100% disconnect and isolate the house bank and use the owners much cheaper start or start/reserve battery for all winter floating. For sensitive AGM or GEL start batteries I also custom program the charger to essentially two float voltages so that brown outs or power outages don't keep rebooting the charger into absorption mode any more than necessary. Self discharge in winter temps is really a non issue. The best option, when on the hard in a colder climate, is to 100% disconnect the batteries, from the boat and themselves, and turn off the charger or switch it to the cheaper start battery so the owner has DC when there in the off season. Long term unattended charging is simply a risk waiting to happen.

 

[haebby]

Quick update - took our trusted Fluke multimeter to the boat today to take a few measurements:

1. Whether the ProMariner was in Conditioning or Auto Maintain state, it always indicated 0.1V less output than what the Fluke measured at the battery terminals. For example, the ProMariner indicated 14.5V output while the Fluke measured 14.6V at the battery. This can probably be explained with ProMariner accounting for line loss, as Sean indicates above.
   
2. Whether the ProMariner was in Conditioning or Auto Maintain state, the Balmar smartgauge always indicated 0.1V more than what the Fluke measured at the exact same measuring points at the battery terminals. Who is to trust more - the Fluke or the Balmar? If the former - any way to calibrate the Balmar?
3. Outside temperature during measurements was around 29°C (84°F), so if I understand Alan and Main Sail correctly, the ProMariner should have adjusted the output voltage down rather than up. The charging profile selected on the ProMariner is AGM Profile 1, which according to the manual should output 14.4V - yet it indicated an output of 14.5V at these relatively high outside temperatures. Same in Auto Maintain state - indicated output voltage 0.1V higher than is should be.

Next time I get to the boat, might run a few more measurements with the temp sensor unplugged and also measure the output directly at the ProMariner. But for now it seems the ProMariner is putting out higher voltage than it should (could probably be overcome by customizing the charging profile rather than trusting ProMariner), and the Balmar smartgauge seems to measure 0.1V too high (if I trust the Fluke more than the Balmar.) Probably have to disable the E02 and E03 error codes on the Balmar...

Side note: I checked with Odyssey technical support regarding the recommended charging profile for their batteries. Their official "listing of approved 12V chargers" indicates to select AGM profile 1 for the ProMariner charger. However, the optimal charging and float voltages for the Odyssey battery are 14.7V and 13.6V, while said profile is targeted to output 14.4 VDC and 13.0-13.4 VDC. The ProMariner AGM Profile 2 is targeted to output 14.6 VDC and 13.0-13.6 VDC, which is closer to the optimal charging voltages for the Odyssey. When I pointed this out to Odyssey technical support, they confirmed and stated that indeed AGM profile 2 is the recommended one and that the entry in the "listing of approved 12V chargers" is questionable. Now - having seen the measurements above, it seems selecting the "incorrect" profile 1 might just be the way to go in order to compensate for the incorrect voltage output the ProMariner seemingly has...

 

[Maine Sail]

#1 The battery temp sensor is monitoring physical battery temp not ambient air temp. Battery temp will lag ambient due to thermal mass. It's likely the actual battery temp was cooler than air temp due to the lag in heating the thermal mass. If the boat is in the water, and the batts are near waterline, typical of most sailboats, they will rarely peak above 80F. I was on a boat yesterday and air temp was 76F but actual battery temp was 53F..

#2 Where are the Smartgauge wires physically connected? Remember the SG only displays voltage in .05V increments. It is a "guide" for voltage only.

Internally the accuracy is NIST level accuracy, for measuring SOC, but the display is only to .05V. While Fluke is a great instrument they can suffer calibration drift over time. Mine get sent back and recalibrated bi-yearly. My NIST calibrated Fluke 289 has always agreed with any Smartgauge I've compared it to, taking into account the .05V resolution.

#3 The ProCharge Ultra and ProNautic P both offer a "custom charge profile" and this is why the are perfectly suitable for Odyssey TPPL AGM batteries. USE THE CUSTOM PROFILE AND SET IT FOR 14.7V and 13.6V! This is why it is there. The custom profile is really one of the top reasons to buy these chargers. If these chargers did not have the ability to set a custom absorption & float voltage I would have never recommended either one.

 

[haebby]

Thanks much for response!

1. Yes, makes sense. Boat is in the water and batteries are near water line. Yesterday's output indicator on ProMariner was 0.1V lower than two weeks ago on a (much) cooler day, which conforms with your explanation of adjusting charge voltages based on temperature.
   
2. The Smartgauge wires are physically connected directly to the terminals of the battery. That particular Fluke is pretty new.
3. Will give this a try.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Haebby, I am sure that you are aware of this but I thought I would just point out that, temperature compensation of output voltage is based on battery temperature not ambient temperature

 

[haebby]

DayDreamer41 - Thanks, yes. I just didn't think there would be that much of a difference between outside temperature and battery temperature, but was probably wrong with that assumption. With an outside temperature of 29°C (84°F), I had assumed the battery temperature to be above the 18°C (65°F), which per Main Sail is the temperature below which voltage will begin being compensated up (which seems to be the case here.)