Balmar 6 Series 150 Amp alternator, Balmar MC 614 Regulator

[DayDreamer41]

Having some difficulty with this, I posted this same issue (2) years ago which I never did resolve health issues prevented me from using the boat last year. When running on the engine the SG-200 shows negative amps but voltage at 14,8 volts. Yesterday went out and motored for (2 1/2) hours when returning the battery monitor indicated SOC at 100% the charge voltage never dropped to 14.3 which is the setting I inputted for absorption voltage?
When on shore power the charge amperage indicates a positive input amperage.

I have checked the grounds, the connection to the shunt and can make no sense of why the amperage would go negative when motoring, this is with all system breakers in the open position and when I initiated all the systems (instruments, autopilot and chart plotter) the negative amperage did increase by about 5 amps??

 

[dlochner]

Check the wiring on the shunt. There is a battery side and a load side, reverse them and the reading will be backwards.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Check the wiring on the shunt. There is a battery side and a load side, reverse them and the reading will be backwards.

First thing I did, I have had this system since 2019 with no issues nothing has changed (I don't remove the batteries in the winter) I checked the amperage with a clamp-on and it indicates the same negative amperage on the positive coming from the alternator and the negative at the ground bar and yet after motoring yesterday for 2 1/2 hours there seemed to be no drain at all on by house bat's.

2 concerns, the voltage after 2 1/2 hours didn't drop to absorption (14.2 V) and the charge amperage never was above "0" amps.

I don't believe that a V regulator would cause this issue, as I was told these things (MC-614) are darn near bullet proof,

 

[heritage]

Your clamp meter should have an arrow that needs to be oriented in the normal direction of current flow. If you flipped the meter the other way, it would falsely show negative current flow..

 

[DayDreamer41]

Your clamp meter should have an arrow that needs to be oriented in the normal direction of current flow. If you flipped the meter the other way, it would falsely show negative current flow..

Yes absolutely, very puzzling issue that is why I am reaching out to the incredible brain power of this forum

 

[jssailem]

Do you have the shunt properly wired?

If wired backwards then I suspect you could get a negative amp reading.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Do you have the shunt properly wired?
View attachment 225685
If wired backwards then I suspect you could get a negative amp reading.

No its not wired backwards, this system worked flawlessly for 3 years and for some strange reason last year on commissioning the above described is my problem. Incidentally as described above the same shunt that measure charge voltage and amperage from the alternator/ regulator, also measures charge amperage and voltage from the invertor/charger and it reads correctly from that system.

 

[Stu Jackson]

2 concerns, the voltage after 2 1/2 hours didn't drop to absorption (14.2 V) and the charge amperage never was above "0" amps.

I don't believe that a V regulator would cause this issue, as I was told these things (MC-614) are darn near bullet proof,

I think I understand your issue, but this statement ^^^ confuses me. The regulator is what determines the "stage" or "phase" of charging, i.e., bulk, absorption, float. Have you checked all the fuses and connections between the regulator and the electrical system/alternator? The MC614 program should also be rechecked; have you looked at it as it cycles through? I often do this when motoring to make sure it's working properly.

 

[DayDreamer41]

I think I understand your issue, but this statement ^^^ confuses me. The regulator is what determines the "stage" or "phase" of charging, i.e., bulk, absorption, float. Have you checked all the fuses and connections between the regulator and the electrical system/alternator? The MC614 program should also be rechecked; have you looked at it as it cycles through? I often do this when motoring to make sure it's working properly.

Stu, I didn't have the sheet handy for the regulator with my programming on it and don't have the bc, al and all the other short forms committed to memory but thanks for the advice, I did look at the reg scrolling thru the setting but without the sheet it didn't make much sense and it scrolls quite quickly. So this week when the boat goes for a (3) hour tour I will be looking at it.
I know that the regulator is sealed, but I am wondering if the winterization antifreeze which appears to have been spilled or sprayed on it has anything to do with this issue?
Mark

 

[Davidasailor26]

I know that the regulator is sealed, but I am wondering if the winterization antifreeze which appears to have been spilled or sprayed on it has anything to do with this issue?

My initial impression was that 14.8 volts with negative amps seems unlikely. Have you checked voltages at the battery posts and alternator output to make sure it’s really 14.8? Assuming it is, and as you said you’ve already double checked the amperage, then I would suspect something awry in the regulator.

 

[jssailem]

Getting a negative AMP reading is difficult unless something is wired "confused" on the sensor.

 

[DayDreamer41]

The wiring to the sensor/Balmar SG-200 battery monitor hasn't changed since its original installation at which time it was working fine, so to say there is something with the wiring the only thing I believe that I may check is for possible corrosion, but we are in the great lakes where corrosion is not typically a factor.
Davidasailor26 - what I need to do is go thru all the programming points on the regulator (Balmar MC 614) to ensure they haven't changed although I would not know how that could happen, if there is something awry there I may have to purchase an new regulator and that hurts a bit at almost $700, oh well BOAT=break out another thousand.

 

[dlochner]

I would not know how that could happen, if there is something awry there I may have to purchase an new regulator and that hurts a bit at almost $700,

A new Balmar 618 is about half that cost and if you add bluetooth you can easily program the regulator from your phone.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I know that the regulator is sealed, but I am wondering if the winterization antifreeze which appears to have been spilled or sprayed on it has anything to do with this issue?

Is the regulator inside the engine room? You know, the place where they say it should never be located?

I may have to purchase an new regulator and that hurts a bit at almost $700,

Before you even consider replacing anything, you should implement your troubleshooting forensic work.

You're online, right? Go to www.balmar.net and download the MC618 manual. I have all my equipment manuals downloaded on my computer laptop.

Good luck

 

[DayDreamer41]

Is the regulator inside the engine room? You know, the place where they say it should never be located?

Absolutely not! - I worked with Rod to set this system up, there is a spot in front of the companionway stairs where all the thru hulls are. This is a deep area and I mounted it just under the cabin sole in that area out of the way, but visible once the sole access panel is removed.

Before you even consider replacing anything, you should implement your troubleshooting forensic work.

I have been doing forensic work, checking amperage, voltage, ground connections, shunt connections and have yet to find anything wrong. I am just back with the boat, last year I was laid up with medical issues as well as this spring, the doctors think they have found the issue and I have had some iron transfusions and am finally feeling much better, really hoping it stays that way.
I did take the boat for a 2 1/2 hr ride yesterday and all seems to be OK except for the displayed negative amperage, not to worried about drawing the amperage from the 650 Ahr house bank, just need to find out why its doing it. While underway with my son at the wheel I was able to look at a few things but I really need to dig deeper into this issue.

You're online, right? Go to www.balmar.net and download the MC618 manual. I have all my equipment manuals downloaded on my computer laptop.

Good idea download to my phone that way I can have the symbols they use for the programmable portions of the regulator.

Good luck

 

[DayDreamer41]

A new Balmar 618 is about half that cost and if you add bluetooth you can easily program the regulator from your phone.

I did not know you could this thanks for the heads up. As long as the connections are the same I would be happy to have that, especially if it displays live data while the engine is running.

 

[dlochner]

I did not know you could this thanks for the heads up. As long as the connections are the same I would be happy to have that, especially if it displays live data while the engine is running.

The Balmar SG200/618/Smart Shunt/Bluetooth system is a great and affordable option for many of us. It is not as slick as the Victron Cerbo system, but it works for us with more modest needs.

The system is pretty well documented on the Balmar website. The Blue Tooth display will show battery and alternator temps, voltage, amps in/out, SOC and State of Health. It will also provide voltage readings only for up to 2 batteries not on the house shunt.

I've been pretty happy with it.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Sounds like upgrade is in the near future 614 to the 618.
I was looking at the website and I have a question for the blue tooth dongle, can it plug in on the back of the SG-200? I see I would need the "Y" to connect to the 618 and a com's cable from the shunt to the "Y" correct?

 

[dlochner]

Sounds like upgrade is in the near future 614 to the 618.
I was looking at the website and I have a question for the blue tooth dongle, can it plug in on the back of the SG-200? I see I would need the "Y" to connect to the 618 and a com's cable from the shunt to the "Y" correct?

It has been a couple of years and a few dead brain cells since I installed the system on Second Star. The network connections are all Deutsch connectors which are pretty easy to work with. The dongle can go most anywhere on the network. Mine is attached to the SG200 gauge.

 

[DayDreamer41]

It has been a couple of years and a few dead brain cells since I installed the system on Second Star. The network connections are all Deutsch connectors which are pretty easy to work with. The dongle can go most anywhere on the network. Mine is attached to the SG200 gauge.

Sounds good that is what I gleaned from the Balmar site.