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I'll bet..
I'll bet you've got a 23 - right? The answer is - a few have with varing degrees of success. Hunter is against it though. Try to sail with REALLY big people. Greg-
I'll bet you've got a 23 - right? The answer is - a few have with varing degrees of success. Hunter is against it though. Try to sail with REALLY big people. Greg-
Why more ballast?
Repercussions, do you mean like more stress on the hull structure, more difficulty in trailering the boat if its in that size range, slower acceleration and more load on the rigging to move your heavier boat? Z , before adding ballast, think carefully about what you want different in the boat's handling,and the law of unintended consequences. It may be that something as simple (and cheap) as putting people on the windward rail or easing your sheets will solve your complaints. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Repercussions, do you mean like more stress on the hull structure, more difficulty in trailering the boat if its in that size range, slower acceleration and more load on the rigging to move your heavier boat? Z , before adding ballast, think carefully about what you want different in the boat's handling,and the law of unintended consequences. It may be that something as simple (and cheap) as putting people on the windward rail or easing your sheets will solve your complaints. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Better than ballast
I invested in a good tiller extension and get out of the cockpit when going to weather, like I used to do when I sailed dinghies. From my perch on the coaming, I can still ease the main in the puffs, I have a better view to weather, I can see my jib telltales, the rudder stays deep in the water where it belongs... and I can check the condition of my bottom paint whenever I want
Look closely at the wings on the keel. They have a negative angle of attack when the boat is level on its lines. If the fore and aft trim of the boat is correct and you keep the boatspeed up, the wings will generate downforce, just like the spoilers on an Indy car. The wing keel gives the boat the stiffness under way that you would expect with more ballast, without the penalty of additional weight. More ballast (mass) means higher inertia, so your boat will take longer to accelerate out of the tacks. More weight also makes the boat sit deeper in the water, resulting in more wetted surface and more drag. I'm not making this up. I emptied the water tank and moved a bunch of stuff from the cockpit locker and rear quarter berth to the underseat storage near the forward bulkhead and back of the V berth, and the boat now feels noticeably stiffer. Peter s/v Raven
I invested in a good tiller extension and get out of the cockpit when going to weather, like I used to do when I sailed dinghies. From my perch on the coaming, I can still ease the main in the puffs, I have a better view to weather, I can see my jib telltales, the rudder stays deep in the water where it belongs... and I can check the condition of my bottom paint whenever I want
Look closely at the wings on the keel. They have a negative angle of attack when the boat is level on its lines. If the fore and aft trim of the boat is correct and you keep the boatspeed up, the wings will generate downforce, just like the spoilers on an Indy car. The wing keel gives the boat the stiffness under way that you would expect with more ballast, without the penalty of additional weight. More ballast (mass) means higher inertia, so your boat will take longer to accelerate out of the tacks. More weight also makes the boat sit deeper in the water, resulting in more wetted surface and more drag. I'm not making this up. I emptied the water tank and moved a bunch of stuff from the cockpit locker and rear quarter berth to the underseat storage near the forward bulkhead and back of the V berth, and the boat now feels noticeably stiffer. Peter s/v Raven2 things....
No.1 I think we need to find out just what boat he/she's got. and.... No.2 he/she may have bought one boat thinking of another. The stability issue tends to go with performance and/or trailer ability. The person may just need the time to familiarize themselves with the other characteristics, and I mean the good stuff like speed, maneuverability and flexibility as a trade off for being a little “tender”. I don't think it's practical to greatly improve the stability of these boats. The alternative is to take the steps necessary to get the more stable boat you really want (new boat time!).
No.1 I think we need to find out just what boat he/she's got. and.... No.2 he/she may have bought one boat thinking of another. The stability issue tends to go with performance and/or trailer ability. The person may just need the time to familiarize themselves with the other characteristics, and I mean the good stuff like speed, maneuverability and flexibility as a trade off for being a little “tender”. I don't think it's practical to greatly improve the stability of these boats. The alternative is to take the steps necessary to get the more stable boat you really want (new boat time!).
More BALLAST
YES, I did add ballast :+) and YES, I have a 23. We were cleaning out the house, and also getting ready to move, so we had 3-400 lbs of books (grand-dad's encyclopedias too) and they went under the cabin seats. They also balanced out the port side outboard. YES, I will add 100 more too, to the compartment under the vbirth. Books are easily added, moved, removed...cheap. I'm not so concerned with speed, but am with stability. The H22 had 500lbs more ballast than the 23 I think. I sail the Chesapeake, and we get gusts 10 knots more than the surrounding wind. I also just bought a main (21x8 - std is 25x10) which is basically a doubly-reefed built-in, with another reef. Now I can use that 30% storm jib and get out there in 20-25 knots I hope.
YES, I did add ballast :+) and YES, I have a 23. We were cleaning out the house, and also getting ready to move, so we had 3-400 lbs of books (grand-dad's encyclopedias too) and they went under the cabin seats. They also balanced out the port side outboard. YES, I will add 100 more too, to the compartment under the vbirth. Books are easily added, moved, removed...cheap. I'm not so concerned with speed, but am with stability. The H22 had 500lbs more ballast than the 23 I think. I sail the Chesapeake, and we get gusts 10 knots more than the surrounding wind. I also just bought a main (21x8 - std is 25x10) which is basically a doubly-reefed built-in, with another reef. Now I can use that 30% storm jib and get out there in 20-25 knots I hope.
Crossthreaded
This reminds me of a popular story line about outboard motors and transom strength. Wonder where that was. I agree with Greg on this one: You can solve both problems with one solution: Buy a Bigger Boat, come on, you know you want to. Although inboards vibrate, I have yet to see one do damage to the transom except for the diesel fumes/smoke that builds up and has to be cleaned off everytime you crank the motor. Maybe that's why I sail in and out of the slip. But that means I don't need a motor at all and therefore really don't need the bigger boat. Sheesh! Nevermind. I think Dave's wearing off on me or something.
This reminds me of a popular story line about outboard motors and transom strength. Wonder where that was. I agree with Greg on this one: You can solve both problems with one solution: Buy a Bigger Boat, come on, you know you want to. Although inboards vibrate, I have yet to see one do damage to the transom except for the diesel fumes/smoke that builds up and has to be cleaned off everytime you crank the motor. Maybe that's why I sail in and out of the slip. But that means I don't need a motor at all and therefore really don't need the bigger boat. Sheesh! Nevermind. I think Dave's wearing off on me or something.
Beer vs Books for Ballast
1) Books get heavier as soon as they get wet (leaking chainplates?), so they work better as ballast. Weight gains due to beer usually take a little longer. Advantage: Books 2) Nothing goes down like a tall frosty beer after a long hot afternoon on the water. I have never seen a tall frosty book. Advantage: Beer 3) A book will stay put if you set it down on the cockpit seat. Even if it slides off onto the cockpit floor, you can dust it off and it will still be good. Beer will do neither. Advantage: Books 4) A 12-pack of beer is easily carried by the average sailor. A 12-pack of books will give the average sailor a hernia. Advantage: Beer 5) Books are just as hard to take off the boat as they are to bring to the boat. At the end of the day, beer will usually walk off the boat under the power of its "container". If you are out past the three-mile limit, beer doesn't even have to be brought back, it will just "whizz" away Advantage: Beer Looks like beer wins!! Have a good weekend. Peter s/v Raven
1) Books get heavier as soon as they get wet (leaking chainplates?), so they work better as ballast. Weight gains due to beer usually take a little longer. Advantage: Books 2) Nothing goes down like a tall frosty beer after a long hot afternoon on the water. I have never seen a tall frosty book. Advantage: Beer 3) A book will stay put if you set it down on the cockpit seat. Even if it slides off onto the cockpit floor, you can dust it off and it will still be good. Beer will do neither. Advantage: Books 4) A 12-pack of beer is easily carried by the average sailor. A 12-pack of books will give the average sailor a hernia. Advantage: Beer 5) Books are just as hard to take off the boat as they are to bring to the boat. At the end of the day, beer will usually walk off the boat under the power of its "container". If you are out past the three-mile limit, beer doesn't even have to be brought back, it will just "whizz" away
Advantage: Beer Looks like beer wins!! Have a good weekend. Peter s/v RavenI do not have the time to read but give me a beer or better yet, home made peach brandy, that is the ballast I will add. There is so much that could be discussed on this issue plus the various boats. Z, I would appreciate that you first let us know which boat you speak about and be kind to let us know who you are and where you sail. As a general rule, adding ballast is good if planning to sail in high winds but most folks tend to get queasy in high winds. If you are caught in high winds, that is one thing but to go out in high winds may not be as fun either. As I tell everyone, put roller furling on the jib and with the Hunters, you generally get 1 set of reef points. You can always add a second reef to the main. With that you can learn to control the boat without extra ballast. Crazy Dave
Are you sure that's what ballast does?
I have been bemused by the discussion of beer as ballast. From my observations, the more beer used as ballast, the more you become suseptible to knockdowns. and some of the comments I've heard suggest its no help whatsoever for improving stiffness. On a more serious note, I spent 9 years as a volunteer search and rescue diver, which experience contributed greatly to my distrust of mixing alcohol and water. A cold beer can be wonderful on a hot day, but too many, at the wrong time, can get expensive in a hurry. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
I have been bemused by the discussion of beer as ballast. From my observations, the more beer used as ballast, the more you become suseptible to knockdowns. and some of the comments I've heard suggest its no help whatsoever for improving stiffness. On a more serious note, I spent 9 years as a volunteer search and rescue diver, which experience contributed greatly to my distrust of mixing alcohol and water. A cold beer can be wonderful on a hot day, but too many, at the wrong time, can get expensive in a hurry. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
Response to Jim
Jim; On the matter of to much beer, your post was needed. Too often i see folks driving powerboats and jet skis that are drinking too much, they have no buisness driving the machine. I have too seen several skippers of sailboats that had no buisness piloting the boat. Thank you for your response from all of us and me too. Crazy Dave
Jim; On the matter of to much beer, your post was needed. Too often i see folks driving powerboats and jet skis that are drinking too much, they have no buisness driving the machine. I have too seen several skippers of sailboats that had no buisness piloting the boat. Thank you for your response from all of us and me too. Crazy Dave
Response to Jim
Jim; On the matter of to much beer, your post was needed. Too often i see folks driving powerboats and jet skis that are drinking too much, they have no buisness driving the machine. I have too seen several skippers of sailboats that had no buisness piloting the boat. Thank you for your response from all of us and me too. Crazy Dave
Jim; On the matter of to much beer, your post was needed. Too often i see folks driving powerboats and jet skis that are drinking too much, they have no buisness driving the machine. I have too seen several skippers of sailboats that had no buisness piloting the boat. Thank you for your response from all of us and me too. Crazy Dave
Sleeping???
Looking at the times associated with these posts leads me to a question - do you people ever sleep?
Looking at the times associated with these posts leads me to a question - do you people ever sleep?
moving ballast to improve stability
I noticed the outboard, five gallon water tank and the battery were all on the port side of the boat. This would not do. First I installed an electric water pump/faucet combo from West Marine($37.00). Next I moved the water tank into the space close to the sink, under the port seats. I then moved the battery to the starboard side, also under the seat. This moved the weight forward and centered the weight, about 50lbs per side. The outboard is still on the port transom, but the 6 gallon fuel tank and engine supplies are in the starboard fuel locker, nearly balancing the 45lb outboard. Works well. Keith Smoot aboard Gwaihir a 1987 wing-keeled H-23
I noticed the outboard, five gallon water tank and the battery were all on the port side of the boat. This would not do. First I installed an electric water pump/faucet combo from West Marine($37.00). Next I moved the water tank into the space close to the sink, under the port seats. I then moved the battery to the starboard side, also under the seat. This moved the weight forward and centered the weight, about 50lbs per side. The outboard is still on the port transom, but the 6 gallon fuel tank and engine supplies are in the starboard fuel locker, nearly balancing the 45lb outboard. Works well. Keith Smoot aboard Gwaihir a 1987 wing-keeled H-23
Sleeping: Am I really getting into this?
I think the server is on west coast time, because I see my posts are time-stamped 3 hours prior to my local time in Florida.
I think the server is on west coast time, because I see my posts are time-stamped 3 hours prior to my local time in Florida.
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