I was told that my boat needs to be balanced. The mast is up. Is there anyway to move the foot of the mast while it is rigged or even when it is down. I never looked to see if it can be moved an inch or more. I have excessive weather helm and my forward stay is two blocked. If need be I will cut the stay and clamp it until I renew the forward stay using a new wire and fittings.
Balancing Mast
- Thread starter Super Harry
- Start date
- Status
mast balancing ideas
Generally, you should not have to relocate the entire mast; forward or backward. The designer placed it where it is for good reasons and I would not move it except as a last resort. My first suggestion is to tune the rig as per manufacturer recommendations. When I purchased my used Hunter Legend 35.5 it had extreme weather helm. Tunning the rig solved the problem. I would then examine the mainsail for shape under load, both in light and heavy air, and make adjustments to it. Check your traveler settings also. As a rule of thumb, attack problems with the least invasive solution first. Moving the mast, in my opinion, is an extreme measure. Hope these suggestions help
Generally, you should not have to relocate the entire mast; forward or backward. The designer placed it where it is for good reasons and I would not move it except as a last resort. My first suggestion is to tune the rig as per manufacturer recommendations. When I purchased my used Hunter Legend 35.5 it had extreme weather helm. Tunning the rig solved the problem. I would then examine the mainsail for shape under load, both in light and heavy air, and make adjustments to it. Check your traveler settings also. As a rule of thumb, attack problems with the least invasive solution first. Moving the mast, in my opinion, is an extreme measure. Hope these suggestions help
Rig tuning
There is an excellent article on Rig tuning in Sail magazine, either this months or last. Your owners manual for the boat, if you have one, may also provide some helpful, though sparse, information. I wouldn't even consider moving the mast location.
There is an excellent article on Rig tuning in Sail magazine, either this months or last. Your owners manual for the boat, if you have one, may also provide some helpful, though sparse, information. I wouldn't even consider moving the mast location.
Excessive weather helm is invariably caused by too much mast rake. Moving the mast base will affect it, but it can be fixed much easier by just moving the mast head instead. I recommend you check the mast rake setting. A general ratio of 50:1; mast height to rake is a standard reading.
rig tuning guides
Here are a few links, courtesy of GOOGLE, that will help you understand and solve your weather helm problem. Moving the mast is not the solution!!! Study these links.... for more, go to google and type in "mast tuning sailing"... and try to find one for your boat. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/masttuning/tuning.htm http://www.sailingsupply.com/articles/Tuning_Your_Rig/body_tuning_your_rig.html http://www.northsailsod.com/class/catalina22/catalina22_tuning.html
Here are a few links, courtesy of GOOGLE, that will help you understand and solve your weather helm problem. Moving the mast is not the solution!!! Study these links.... for more, go to google and type in "mast tuning sailing"... and try to find one for your boat. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/masttuning/tuning.htm http://www.sailingsupply.com/articles/Tuning_Your_Rig/body_tuning_your_rig.html http://www.northsailsod.com/class/catalina22/catalina22_tuning.html
Brian Toss is the man
Check out Brian Toss. He is the a rigger and when you read about tuning you will proabably heare his name. Go to the source.
Check out Brian Toss. He is the a rigger and when you read about tuning you will proabably heare his name. Go to the source.
Weather Helm
What kind of boat is it and what wind conditions and sail combination are resulting in weather helm? Very often weather helm is not caused by rig tuning but by sail trim and heeling. In particular if the sails are old and "blown out" they may be producing more heeling moment than drive. When a boat heels past a certain point the hull shape makes it tend to round up which feels like weather helm. Some boats are more prone to it than others. Look carefully at your sail trim for a solution before you mess with the rig trim.
What kind of boat is it and what wind conditions and sail combination are resulting in weather helm? Very often weather helm is not caused by rig tuning but by sail trim and heeling. In particular if the sails are old and "blown out" they may be producing more heeling moment than drive. When a boat heels past a certain point the hull shape makes it tend to round up which feels like weather helm. Some boats are more prone to it than others. Look carefully at your sail trim for a solution before you mess with the rig trim.
23'
Others have said on this forum, and I now agree, the mast is raked too much on the h23s, at least for cruisers. I tightened the forestay turnbuckle as much as possible on mine, loos-guaged the shrouds and then tightened the backstays. I've also improved my sail-trimming and kept the rudder trimmed up tight. Weather helm is greatly diminished. Below is a link to a lot of good information that a lot of good sailors gave me in January. Mac
Others have said on this forum, and I now agree, the mast is raked too much on the h23s, at least for cruisers. I tightened the forestay turnbuckle as much as possible on mine, loos-guaged the shrouds and then tightened the backstays. I've also improved my sail-trimming and kept the rudder trimmed up tight. Weather helm is greatly diminished. Below is a link to a lot of good information that a lot of good sailors gave me in January. Mac
Back stay
That's probably correct. Shortening the forestay will decrease weather helm, but what you are doing is pissing in the wind. Find a rigger that understands your problem or go to Brion Toss's website. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does.
That's probably correct. Shortening the forestay will decrease weather helm, but what you are doing is pissing in the wind. Find a rigger that understands your problem or go to Brion Toss's website. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does.
Harry
What kind of boat are we talking about? I'd strongly recommend against moving the mast step. There are several potential causes of your weather helm that should be looked at first. If you've got the factory rig and hull, and your sails and everything else are in decent condition, you should be able to fix it with substantially easier and less drastic measures. Excessive weather helm means (simplified) the center of effort [COE] (sails/spars/etc) is too far aft w/ respect to the Center of Lateral Resistance [CLR] (keel/hull/etc). Some factors that cause excessive weather helm: Kick-up rudder (if so equipped) not fully down - As the rudder is raised, it's own local CLR moves further from the fulcrum (gudgeon/ rudder-post/etc), amplifying the force required at the tiller to hold it steady. (Slight weather helm is normal, and a good safety "feature", as long as it's not exhausting to hold it for an hour or so.) Centerboard/swing-keel/daggerboard - If it isn't all the way down, the CLR is further aft, increasing weather helm. Excessive heal - as your typical monohull heals, the shape of the underwater part of the hull changes such that the CLR moves forward relative to the COE on the sails. Reduce heal by trimming and or reducing sail, or putting several 300# deck apes on the windward rail. Sail Trim - any number of trim adjustments may cause the COE on the sails to move aft. Sheeting, sail twist, sheeting angle, luff & foot tension, etc. Sail choice - Flying a small jib w/o reefing the main might cause weather helm. Blown out sails - old stretched sails make it harder to achieve proper trim and can contribute to excess weather helm. Mast rake - you can move the entire sail plan (and it's COE) fore or aft by moving the masthead. You say your forestay is "double blocked". Either your forestay is too long (old and stretched?) or mast rake is clearly not the problem. (If you have an adjustable backstay, tensioning it bends the mast like a bow aimed forward, which flattens the mainsail, which may reduce weather helm. But you are also moving the rig aft, which increases weather helm. The net result may vary.) If you can't remedy the weather helm with adjustments (sail/centerboard/rudder/etc.), it's time to tune the rig (Joe of Mission Bay pointed out some links, and I'll second Bil sv Makai's comment about Brion Toss. See below.) If you're forestay is still "double blocked", or too close to complete the tuning procedure, it may be simply too long (old and stretched, or a mis-measured replacement?). If you decide to replace the forestay be sure to check out the following link:
What kind of boat are we talking about? I'd strongly recommend against moving the mast step. There are several potential causes of your weather helm that should be looked at first. If you've got the factory rig and hull, and your sails and everything else are in decent condition, you should be able to fix it with substantially easier and less drastic measures. Excessive weather helm means (simplified) the center of effort [COE] (sails/spars/etc) is too far aft w/ respect to the Center of Lateral Resistance [CLR] (keel/hull/etc). Some factors that cause excessive weather helm: Kick-up rudder (if so equipped) not fully down - As the rudder is raised, it's own local CLR moves further from the fulcrum (gudgeon/ rudder-post/etc), amplifying the force required at the tiller to hold it steady. (Slight weather helm is normal, and a good safety "feature", as long as it's not exhausting to hold it for an hour or so.) Centerboard/swing-keel/daggerboard - If it isn't all the way down, the CLR is further aft, increasing weather helm. Excessive heal - as your typical monohull heals, the shape of the underwater part of the hull changes such that the CLR moves forward relative to the COE on the sails. Reduce heal by trimming and or reducing sail, or putting several 300# deck apes on the windward rail. Sail Trim - any number of trim adjustments may cause the COE on the sails to move aft. Sheeting, sail twist, sheeting angle, luff & foot tension, etc. Sail choice - Flying a small jib w/o reefing the main might cause weather helm. Blown out sails - old stretched sails make it harder to achieve proper trim and can contribute to excess weather helm. Mast rake - you can move the entire sail plan (and it's COE) fore or aft by moving the masthead. You say your forestay is "double blocked". Either your forestay is too long (old and stretched?) or mast rake is clearly not the problem. (If you have an adjustable backstay, tensioning it bends the mast like a bow aimed forward, which flattens the mainsail, which may reduce weather helm. But you are also moving the rig aft, which increases weather helm. The net result may vary.) If you can't remedy the weather helm with adjustments (sail/centerboard/rudder/etc.), it's time to tune the rig (Joe of Mission Bay pointed out some links, and I'll second Bil sv Makai's comment about Brion Toss. See below.) If you're forestay is still "double blocked", or too close to complete the tuning procedure, it may be simply too long (old and stretched, or a mis-measured replacement?). If you decide to replace the forestay be sure to check out the following link:
- Status