Bad Light

Justin_NSA · Jun 28, 2013

Thanks !

I should replace my mast light with a better LED version while the mast is still down. We can't sail our lake so might as well get some projects done to her.

tkanzler · Jun 28, 2013

I've seen this before, and can't understand how the manufacturer can market such a light as a masthead light when it doesn't fit the technical requirements. By a lot. It's not like this is some arcane requirement (horizontal sweep angle, and rate of diminishment beyond that) that only folks 'in the know' would have access to.

Justin_NSA said:
I should replace my mast light with a better LED version while the mast is still down. We can't sail our lake so might as well get some projects done to her.

Why bother with LED on the masthead light? It's only on when under engine power, at which point you have battery charging going on. The others, plus anchor light, can/will be burning with no engine, but the masthead is the one that's only used with the engine. Not trying to be difficult; just wondering is all.

Justin_NSA · Jun 28, 2013

tkanzler said:
Why bother with LED on the masthead light? It's only on when under engine power, at which point you have battery charging going on. The others, plus anchor light, can/will be burning with no engine, but the masthead is the one that's only used with the engine. Not trying to be difficult; just wondering is all.

Actually, I don't have a generator. Just a simple pull start motor. I'm on battery anytime we're away from the docks

tkanzler · Jun 28, 2013

Justin_NSA said:
Actually, I don't have a generator. Just a simple pull start motor. I'm on battery anytime we're away from the docks

Well, then, I would suggest you look into an LED masthead light.

[Rosanne Rosannadanna voice]Never mind.[/RRv]

Justin_NSA · Jun 28, 2013

tkanzler said:
well, Then, I Would Suggest You Look Into An Led Masthead Light.

[rosanne Rosannadanna Voice]never Mind.[/rrv]

:d

Lol!

Sumner · Jun 28, 2013

Under power you can also run an "all around" light so if you have an 'all around' anchor light it can serve two purposes if you want. That is what we do with a 2 watt...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/outside-23.html

...LED anchor/running light. Run the bow lights under power or sail. The all around under power with the stern light off and turn the all around off and the stern on under sail.

We try to be on anchor by dark and yes we usually have other lights down near deck level below the anchor light at the top of the mast.,

Sum

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StinkBug · Jun 28, 2013

Justin_NSA said:
Actually, I don't have a generator. Just a simple pull start motor. I'm on battery anytime we're away from the docks

I was gonna say the same. Most smaller boats that get power from an outboard dont get electrical power from that motor, so it's all battery power for us. So far I've upgraded every light on my boat except the stern light to LED, partially for energy savings and partially because I seem to always have contact problems with the bulb sockets. Even with new bulbs and freshly rebuilt sockets they haven't been terribly reliable for me. I recently changed my original mast light (which would also not meet these requirements) for an all round masthead light and plan to use it the same way Sumner described.

There are some other discussions on this board about this USCG warning and it made me think about the stock lights on my boat. The original mast light on my Mac25 was simply a hole in the front of the mast with a socket for a bulb inserted and a clear lens over it. This would have provided 180* of coverage at best, the same as this LED that's being warned against. Seems the aftermarket isn't the only one cutting corners.

tkanzler · Jun 28, 2013

Sumner said:
Under power you can also run an "all around" light so if you have an 'all around' anchor light it can server two purposes if you want.

My boat came (from the PO) with a Perko socket in the stern coaming for a running all-round light-on-a-stick, with the circuit labeled 'anchor light'. It was too low to get over the bimini, so I cut it shorter and use it for a flag staff, with a light on it for illuminating the cockpit.

I now use a 54" light-on-a-stick as the only white light when motoring without the mast. It's higher than the bimini, and USCG 'approved' for 2 mile visibility, and does double-duty as an anchor light. I pull the bulb in the stern light when doing this, but will put it on it's own switch when I replace the panel (project is in process).

I hang a light from the rigging for anchoring when the mast is up, and the standard boat lighting is all in play when sailing or motoring then, too; bicolor sidelights, masthead (steaming) light halfway up the mast, and stern light.

Doc_holiday · Jun 30, 2013

Maybe it's been said, just differently but your anchor light on top of your mast is a legal light for our boats. It serves the stern light and steaming light purpose but is no harm when under sail either.

I know the spirit if this post was to warn of cheap off shore parts not meeting USCG requirements and that's a shame. Bought online its buyer beware, I don't think WM or any other marine store would present that as legal. They know the rules.

Sumner · Jun 30, 2013

Doc_holiday said:
... It serves the stern light and steaming light purpose but is no harm when under sail either. ....

I personally wouldn't use the top of the mast light under sail. One purpose of the different light configurations is so that one can identify the type of boat at night that is in view. If you have the top of the mast on under sail other boats can assume you are a power boat and won't give you the right of way that you are due as a sailboat. Likewise if one ran their running lights on anchor someone might assume that they were underway and not anchored.

Here is a link to identifying different boats at night...

http://www.boatsafe.com/flash/reviewlights.html

... it doesn't cover all of the different combinations, but a number,
Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

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centerline · Jun 30, 2013

Sumner said:
I personally wouldn't use the top of the mast light under sail. One purpose of the different light configurations is so that one can identify the type of boat at night that is in view. If you have the top of the mast on under sail other boats can assume you are a power boat and won't give you the right of way that you are due as a sailboat. Likewise if one ran their running lights on anchor someone might assume that they were underway and not anchored.

Here is a link to identifying different boats at night...

http://www.boatsafe.com/flash/reviewlights.html

... it doesn't cover all of the different combinations, but a number,
Sum

I agree that the light patterns are designated in such a way as to better identify the type of vessel coming thru the fog/night

But just to play devils advocate

, I will point out, an oncoming boat probably wont be able to see the stern light anyway (unless they are approaching from rearward).... and any skipper that isnt willing to give the right away when it becomes apparent there is an issue with the boat ahead of him, or just out of simple courtesy, probably doesnt care what kind of a boat is in his path anyway....and may continue to bear down:cussing:
and although, what i think makes no difference to the regulations, if i were to see a white masthead light 20-50 feet above the red/green nav lights, i would strongly assume its a sail boat that isnt moving too fast and take the proper precautions to insure there are no tense moments.....

I like and use the masthead light at night because in addition to being legal here, it illuminates the windex.... the stern light is not used but it works just in case of any hard nosed, bull headed officers during an equipment inspection

....

StinkBug · Jun 30, 2013

Thing is there is a difference between a sail boat under power, and a sail boat under sail. If a person who knows what the lights mean (and anyone piloting a vessel should) saw a mast head light many feet above a red/green bow light they would rightfully assume that it's a sail boat under power and that it has the ability to easily alter course and may treat you as such. If you are under sail and cannot easily alter your course this could lead to a sticky situation. It's unlikely, but very possible. This is why there are different light requirements for boats under sail, and boats under power. It's not about speed, it's about maneuverability.

I have my boat wired much the same as yours, but I never sail at night. Around here the wind dies right before sunset, so anything in the dark is under motor. If I were to sail at night I could easily go up on deck and unplug the masthead light though.

Justin_NSA · Jul 1, 2013

It looks like the OEM wiring on the Macs is correct if used properly. Running lights and masthead are on separate circuits. I would have put them on the same circuit and used switches but that costs more.

Doc_holiday · Jul 5, 2013

I wouldn't either, I'm simply saying its legal. I have a stern light, steaming light, anchor light and running lights. Of course the wiring to the mast is set up that I plug in to the deck either the steaming or anchor light.