Bad gas!

[shnool]

Nope I've not eaten too much chilli....
No I don't want to make this all political.

What I want to know is, how the heck do you folks keep ethanol (which is what I presume is causing my problems, as I've been told this by now 3 outboard repair shops), from destroying your outboard...

I've now had 3 different outboards suffer from carb bowl lacquering. Of course a rebuild puts them back on top again (yeah I know I should learn to rebuild them myself)...
The solutions I've gotten to prevent this before was to "always run out your fuel." Which I do. And to "always use fresh fuel." Which I do, and I have several 2 cycle (which all these outboards have been) motors that all require 50:1 to my weed eater, my chainsaw and my leaf blower all use the same fuel, and I rarely go more than 3 or 4 weeks all summer long with my mix. I'd figure that was a pretty good turnover.

I've had it suggested to me that 92 octane is "better"
I've had someone suggest I use jet fuel? REALLY?
My life experience tells me that most of these motors want lower octane not higher, but I could be wrong.

The ONLY thing that has made sense to me (if the ethanol is truly what is causing this) is the suggestion someone made that I use "Truefuel," which is a pre-mixed long shelf life 50:1 fuel. See it here: http://www.trufuel50.com/ProductInfo.aspx
The GOOD news is that it's readily available from the local hardware stores. The Bad news is, it's $8 a QUART! Granted my little 3.5hp motor only uses 1 liter at a time, but I always carry a 2 gallon jerry can with me (usually only with 1 gallon in it, as I like to use UP my fuel)... so that's a pretty expensive Jerry can of fuel!

Before you POO POO a $32 a gallon can of fuel, lemme tell you paying SOMEONE else to rebuild my carbs (and retune) runs into about $300 each time, and I usually get about 1 year (2 seasons) out of my motor before I wind up back in the shop.

I really don't use my motor that much but when I do, I usually run it 1/2 to 3/4 throttle for 20-30 minutes at a pop. I also run the motor about a half dozen times a month until it's dry. IF I use more than say 4 gallons all season that'd be a lot.

Thoughts?

 

[Curt]

So far I have not had any problems with the 6 HP Yamaha I have had for the past 5 years. Shnool, I swapped motors when I sold my 18 and took ownership of the 22. Kept the Yamaha and passed the Johnson along. Thought it best to stay with a motor I know.

My understanding is that Ethanol dries out the seals and gaskets in older motors and seperates with time. At least that is what I was told by a (well respected) contributor on the BMW Z3 forum when I asked about my wifes 1998 Z3 and Ethanol. One solution was to add Star Tron made by Starbrite to each tank of mid grade gas to counter the harsh effects of Ethanol as well as the seperation that occurs. So far it has worked well in the Z3. I started adding it to each tank of gas in my 2003 Vulcan Drifter as well.

I have used Star Tron in my Yamaha since I got it and have not yet had any carb issues. I do not run the tank dry after each use, only at the end of the season. I dropped the motor off at the shop to have the water pump rebuilt, as is suggested due to age and lack of a repair history. While there I asked the mechanic his opinion. He said Star Tron the new Stabil and others help but he would suggest using a prduct called Gas-RX from Enertech Labs. $10.00 for 8 oz and treats up to 60 gallons. ( I have no affilliation with this product) Said to be newly formulated for Ethanol and removes water, prevents corrosion and helps clean gums and varnishes.

I have had no issues while using Star Tron but Gas-RX was available from the shop only at the time so I will try it this summer. Any problems and I will be having a conversation with the mechanic.

Just my $.02
Curt

 

[HERSH]

My 2 cents;

In all my small engines ( lawn mowers, & 2 stroke chain saw & Evinrude outboard) I always use HIGH TEST. Gas. When I pick up the 2 stroke oil for the chain saw, the shop always says use mid grade gas minimum.

At the end of the boating season I put what is left over of the oil/gas mix for my outboard, into my lawn mowers and burn it up there. I do run the outboard dry though.

I have had good luck with the outboard A little problem with a lawn mower. None with the chain saw, but it is used lightly.

Hershey

 

[Mattw79]

Try looking for a station close by that has ethanol free gas (link below). I thought my outboard (15hp 1996 Merc 2-stroke) was having the same problem when I first bought the boat, turned out to be something I was doing wrong, but I can tell that the motor isn't liking the fuel so much after it's been sitting a month or two in the tank. But it always starts and runs eventually. I go through about 8-10 gallons a season, and when I fill up the 6 gallon tank, I remove the fuel screen and clean it with a solution. Not sure if that's really helping or it's just the fresh gas, but someone told me it would make a difference. As for lawn equipment, this gas has been a nightmare with anything new. I have a new Honda push mower that takes way too long to start, and Snapper (with a Briggs) that would start cold, but wouldn't restart after warming up when I emptied the bagger. Of course all the older equipment (10-15+ years old) runs fine on the same gas. And I don't take care of the order stuff like I probably should.

http://pure-gas.org/

 

[Curt]

Shnool,
Maybe not jet fuel but AV Gas for sure. Aviation gas is available at most any small airport and costs a bit more but is Ethanol free and extremely clean. May be worth the effort for the few gallons a year used in our little putt around engines. A little bit of bad goes a long way in a 6HP engine.

I have a friend that would take his 1965ish Shelby Mustang to the airstrip for every fill up. He spent lots of money and time rebuilding the motor to original. Still runs great today.

 

[NewportNewsMike]

I have had success for many years - through many outboards (2 and 4 cycle) and lawn mower type small engines with the following:

- I always use mid-grade gas.
- I always use a "name" brand gas, either Texaco, Sunoco, or Shell. Others may work as well, but these are the ones I have experience with.
- I always use a storage additive (Sta-Bil). Not just for winter storage, but for every tank I run. Every tank, every time.
- On the outboards (where it is easy to do so), I always run the carb dry. Some of the mowers can be run dry, others cannot.

Is all this maybe over kill? Yeah, probably so.
Does this add to my operating costs? Yes, most definitely.
But I have had no (none, zero) carb problems. And that has to be worth something.

 

[shnool]

Good info guys...

For the record, I've used that pure-gas website, and according to it, the nearest station that has ethanol free gas to me is about 250miles.

I just got that 6hp Johnson running good again Curt.. that was a good motor, but I totally understand.
I ditched a perfectly good 6hp Mariner that came with my Capri 25 (sold for $800)... mostly because it was over 80lbs.

 

[jepomer]

So much worry. That's why I went solar...

 

[sinnettc]

Is there any agriculture around there? You may find ethanol free gas where the farmers go. Might be $pendy in 5 or 10 gallon cans but it's better than repair bills. Otherwise find a small airport with a chevron, mobil, whatever sign. They'll have e-free as airplanes can't take it at all.

 

[HERSH]

Aviation Gas ... now that is an idea. I have a small airport about 5 miles ( or less) from me.
I have a couple of tanks for my outboards. I use the smallest, 2.5 gallons. Maybe fill it up 2 times during the season. Not counting the first top of at the beginning of the season.

Right know I am 100% happy with my 1987 Evinrude 2 cylinder 2 stroke. 35# I think.

A friend uses a Honda 3.5HP on his 22 ft Ranger. I believe it is air-cooled and has a centrifugal clutch.
One does not have to worry about replacing the water-pump impeller every 3-4 years. For an item that has to be replaced that frequently, you would think they would have made it easier. On both my old 4 hp. Merc and my Evinrude it is a challenging task.

Hershey

 

[Rightbrainer]

The marinas nearby me sell no-ethanol high-test gas and a couple of gas stations do too. I buy one 6-gallon can and use it in all my small engines...power washer, snow blower, lawn mower, chain saw, outboards, leaf blower, weed eater, etc., etc. It's worth a few bucks extra a year to keep them all happy. Aviation gas sounds pretty cheap compared to all those carb kits and fuel pumps. I also would put it in any engine that I was going to lay up for more than a few months.

 

[HERSH]

The marinas nearby me sell no-ethanol high-test gas and a couple of gas stations do too. I buy one 6-gallon can and use it in all my small engines...power washer, snow blower, lawn mower, chain saw, outboards, leaf blower, weed eater, etc., etc. It's worth a few bucks extra a year to keep them all happy. Aviation gas sounds pretty cheap compared to all those carb kits and fuel pumps. I also would put it in any engine that I was going to lay up for more than a few months.

Where are you located ? I am not sure what the Marinas on the Hudson River (NY) are Pumping.

Hershey

 

[Rightbrainer]

I'm in Canandaigua, NY. Just about every marina around here has no-ethanol gas...so do the FasTrac gas stations. check online http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=NY

 

[HERSH]

I'm in Canandaigua, NY. Just about every marina around here has no-ethanol gas...so do the FasTrac gas stations. check online http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=NY

RightBrainer;

All the locations listed seem to up-state & west of Albany ( home of the crooks) . I did not recognize any near me --- Dutchess County NY. I think different counties in NY go under their own "rules" as far a gas goes. So-- in the meantime I will continue to use high-test with ethanol and a little extra oil in my Evinrude 2-stroke. My small 4 strokes I us high-test.

You are definitely in the snow belt where are. I guess you hope that when summer comes, it lands on a weekend

Hershey

 

[sinnettc]

There's a sta-bil for ethanol gas. Can't remember for sure but I think it's the green.

 

[sail_flathead_lake]

Four stroke motors are incredibly sensitive to gas issues, and ethanol in any amount will surely clog up the carb. When I first got my boat I had a similar experience to the one you're going through, except the $250 that the local shop wanted to clean the carb was money I didn't have. I went on youtube and found a video of someone cleaning the carb on my exact outboard (Nissan 4HP 4 stroke). I encourage you to figure out how to take the carb off of your outboard, take it apart, remove the jets, and clean it properly. It's not rocket science - the guy you're paying good money to do this job likely knows less than you do about most other things. All you need to do is take photos as you take the carb apart so you can put it back together.

Another tip - I was told that carb cleaner sprayed on the parts doesn't do the trick. You really need to dip the carb. I use Pine Sol, which has worked great for me. It's less toxic and smells better than Berryman's. I clean the carb by dismantling and soaking in Pine Sol at the beginning of each season, and it's been trouble free. Obviously you flush it out with water, then spray all passages with carb cleaner after the Pine Sol dip.

Lastly, I'll say that while I've not tried it, I did hear from a friend that aviation gas works wonders on four stroke motors. This guy used it exclusively for his sailing club because he got tired of cleaning carbs on all their outboards.

Just remember, if you don't lose the parts you can always take them in to the shop if you get overwhelmed. My bet is that once you do it once you'll wonder why you ever paid money to have the thing cleaned in the first place.

 

[shnool]

I should be clear, I've never had a 4 stroke motor.

Also my last repair came in requiring a new carb gasket, my normal cleaning, and apparently a new plug. I have an older 2.2 that ran OK before, and I've experimented on it... it no longer starts (my diagnosis, and it's unofficial) is that the coil is bad... but it's an older flywheel/points type.