Bad gas

[BobM]

Well, I certainly had heard a lot of stories about bad gas but this is the first time I got burned. I had to bring my dinghy down to the club, as after Labor Day you have to rely on your own transportation. I threw a quick coat of bottom paint on then decided I better test my reliable and neglected 4hp Suzuki outboard. Four hours later it was running like a top.

Yes I did say four hours! When it wouldn't start I drained about a cup of water out of the built in 1 gallon fuel tank. I couldn't believe there was so much water in it and I'm a chemist. Furthermore, there was flock in the fuel, like something had grown in it. After a number of rinses I still was getting cloudiness when I shook the tank, so I finally pulled it off to shake fuel around in it and dump it out. It still wouldn't start. Finally after we had the carb on and off a number of times we cleared a bunch of crap out of the bowl but eventually figured out that the float was stuck in place with corrosion (motor is used in salt water and is never flushed ). After we got it cleaned up we also replaced a connection on the kill switch that looked corroded.

Runs like a top now! Then of course we hit a ridiculous amount of traffic so we never did end up going sailing yesterday. We did go for a brief sail this morning though. We were busting to get the outboard running because the plan was to sail, then to watch the Pats/Giants game, crash on the boat overnight, grab breakfast at a nearby diner and come home.

 

[Stu Jackson]

After we got it cleaned up we also replaced a connection on the kill switch that looked corroded.

Yup, that happened to me on our 1990 9.9 Evinrude. Didn't have the carb problems though.

ETHANOL.

One nasty word.

The "Word" as Stephen Colbert would say, has been out there for quite some time, so I'm surprised that you were surprised, being a chemist and all, I'm just a lowly engineer.

BoatUS has a lot of info about it on their website, so it's not worth repeating here.

Happy outboarding.

 

[sailaway78]

Crud and corrosion

That crud and corrosion that had the float/needle stuck is not from a salt environment. It is from the gas itself, and the water it contains. Being in salt water I don't think has any effect on the carb. But this stinkin ethanol does. Keep in mind that alcohol absorbs water, till it reaches it's saturation point, the the water comes out of suspension.
I have a little 2hp Suzuki, and like yours it is as dependable as a hammer. But I never shut if off. Always let it run with the gas turned off, till the carb runs dry. Use Sta-bil, and never keep gas more than 30 days or so. This is the only way I have found to keep it running.

 

[KD3PC]

at least you can get to the tank, take it off, shake it around and deal with it...now imagine 300 gals in an inaccessible fuel tank...

idiots to think ethanol was a good thing in the first place, worse to let the EPA have jurisdiction over it's use.

 

[Stu Jackson]

1. at least you can get to the tank, take it off, shake it around and deal with it...now imagine 300 gals in an inaccessible fuel tank...

2. idiots to think ethanol was a good thing in the first place, worse to let the EPA have jurisdiction over it's use.

1. Yup, and think of all those folks with fiberglass fuel tanks that got rotted out from the inside out. Talk about unforeseen consequences. And then it got worse when they upped the corn content.

2. There's also the "corn lobby" that has a tad to do with it. While I don't know the details for sure, sometimes it may be incorrect to blame the enforcement arm with the folks who originated the concept, although the "danged environmentalists" may have had something to do with it. Really a stupid, stupid idea - for many, many reasons.

 

[Fly_H23]

Forego the ethanol altogether in your outboard by using Avgas from your local small airport. It costs more but will last a year or two with no additives. A few bucks more for a tank full and no more carb issues!

 

[CalebD]

So far this year I've read that E15 was approved by the bozos at the EPA as pushed by the 'corn' lobby. There was also talk about ending the 'corn' subsidies altogether. Anyone care to guess which way this goes?
Avgas is the best option if the DHS will allow you to get it.

 

[sailaway78]

Ethanol free gas

I have found one station near me that sells ethanol free gas. My little 2hp uses very little, and a gallon will last me a pretty good while. It's not a problem when I'm local, but hard to get AV gas, or ethanol free when out and about, with no wheels. You just have to take what you can get. So I keep Sta-bil on board at all times.

 

[LooseDiamond]

Although the site appears to be down this am, I have found it to be a good source of EtOH free gasoline.

http://pure-gas.org/

 

[BobM]

I certainly knew ethanol could be a problem.

...but couldn't believe a cup of water would find its way into less than a gallon of fuel! Part of the issue was likely due to the tank design. There is a nipple welded to the bottom that projects about 3/4 of an inch above the floor of the tank on the inside. It allows a fairly significant amount of water / sediment to accumulate in the bottom and never drain out / burn.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html is a good source of info.

I amazed to see that the E10 can hold 7000 ppm or 0.7% water! No more holding fuel in mowers, snowblowers, etc... for me. It should be safe in entirely sealed containers, like gas cans though. Even with that they say the max shelf life is 3 months.

 

[sailaway78]

3 months

I think three months is at the outer limits, if you use Sta-bil. I wouldn't want to consider keeping E10 for three months without it. No more than the little outboards use, just pour it in your car and use it up. Much easier than pulling a carb, and having hard starting problems. My little 2hp has not been touched for two years, and starts on one or two pulls every time. Be sure you run the carb dry, EVERY time you have it running.

 

[thinwater]

A few links on e-10 I've collected

First, from Al Gore, who campaigned for e-10 and now sees it as bad policy.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/11/al-gore-and-ethanol-so-now-its-not-good.html
Pretty hysterical, if it weren't real.

And more useful information.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/04/epa-memo-on-e-10-and-phase-separation.html.

And this for the future.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/10/e-15-approved-by-epa-for-2007-and-newer.html.

This is probably the most important EPA memo, explaining e-10 water absorption and temperature instability. As fall approaches, we will no doubt get a surge of e-10 posts.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf


As a chemical engineer in the petroleum industry, I have researched this and written articles on the subject. I will offer only these 2 bits:
1. None of the additives tested do anything useful to prevent separation. None have been able to demonstrate anything useful in an independent lab that I have seen.
2. Running the carb MT is useful and may help prevent some carb problems, but the solution to tank problems is KEEPING THE TANK NEARLY (90%) FULL. Don't fill-up before you go out, fill when you return. On small engines, keep the vent closed.

 

[Fly_H23]

Just remember this at election time. Perhaps all their good intentions can be repealed someday soon?