Hi Guys and Gals: What should have been a good day of sailing wasn't. Winds were about 20 knots from the South and I started out with a reefed main and the genoa partially deployed. I noticed a tear developing in the genoa and furled it in. At that point I proceeded to unreef the main to compensate somewhat for the loss of the headsail. Surprise, the engine (Atomic 4) would not start and it was impossible to stay turned into the wind without it. I untied the reef points and attempted to try to raise the sail without being turned into the wind and sailing close hauled. No luck there. At that point, with all the tension on the now mishapen main, it was impossible to retie the reef points and raise or lower the mainsail. What a mess. We were making almost no progress trying to return to the marina. I redeployed the genoa and watched a second tear develop but we were at least making progress. The sun was setting and not much time to get in. I gave up and called for towing. Guys and gals, when the motor fails what is an alternative way for staying turned into the wind to manage the sails? What if this had been a storm and no way to stay turned into the wind to take the main down? After getting into the slip, the tow guy listened to my engine. He said I was either not getting spark or residue from the gas tank was stirred up my the chop. Well fine, but it all boils down to non-performance of my equipment when I needed it. Everything worked fine two days earlier. Question, has anyone had a similar experience and what did you do to increase the reliability of your engine and peripheral equipment? The fact that I had a guest on board didn't help either. Thanks Melody
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SEAN
Bad Day
Melody, It's almost impossible to keep the boat and sails into the wind by yourself. You probably should have had your guest( with some quick training) hold the tiller into the wind while you tended the sails. I always tell my friend that there will be a lot of flapping and noise but to ignore it. Also, you have to have a little boat speed going into the stall, or the sails will once again fill. You could do a quick 360 degrees to get your boat speed up. I think I would get rid of the sail ties on the reef and get jiffy reefing. You can reef in about 30 seconds. Hope this helps. Sean-Carnaby Street
Melody, It's almost impossible to keep the boat and sails into the wind by yourself. You probably should have had your guest( with some quick training) hold the tiller into the wind while you tended the sails. I always tell my friend that there will be a lot of flapping and noise but to ignore it. Also, you have to have a little boat speed going into the stall, or the sails will once again fill. You could do a quick 360 degrees to get your boat speed up. I think I would get rid of the sail ties on the reef and get jiffy reefing. You can reef in about 30 seconds. Hope this helps. Sean-Carnaby Street
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GERRY HULL
Bad Day
Melody; Turning the BOAT into the wind may have been nearly impossible under the circumstances but turning the MAINSAIL into the wind [which is your real objective]requires only that you let the main sheet out enough until the sail luffs and shakes. Just don't lose the end of the main sheet. Then you just yank the sail down, go back and bring the sheet in and make sure, before starting, nothing is trailing overboard to foul the prop. Not easy but it works. A little upper body workout now and then will give you surprising ability to fight the lines. As far as your engine goes it sounds like your mechanic didn't know the cause but a dirty fuel tank will kill a running engine but it is unlikely to prevent an initial start. I'd have the tank cleaned to be sure to replace the ignition parts yearly. Send the genoa out for a complete re-stiching. At 20 kts. it sounds like you were overpowered even with your limited sail set. Put on a set of lazy jacks [ the kind that can be carried foreward out of the way when not in use. They will free you from fooling with reefing ties for the first reef at least. Best advice is to go out with a good sailer on other dusty days and learn your boat all over again. At 20+ kts it's a whole new deal! Good luck
Melody; Turning the BOAT into the wind may have been nearly impossible under the circumstances but turning the MAINSAIL into the wind [which is your real objective]requires only that you let the main sheet out enough until the sail luffs and shakes. Just don't lose the end of the main sheet. Then you just yank the sail down, go back and bring the sheet in and make sure, before starting, nothing is trailing overboard to foul the prop. Not easy but it works. A little upper body workout now and then will give you surprising ability to fight the lines. As far as your engine goes it sounds like your mechanic didn't know the cause but a dirty fuel tank will kill a running engine but it is unlikely to prevent an initial start. I'd have the tank cleaned to be sure to replace the ignition parts yearly. Send the genoa out for a complete re-stiching. At 20 kts. it sounds like you were overpowered even with your limited sail set. Put on a set of lazy jacks [ the kind that can be carried foreward out of the way when not in use. They will free you from fooling with reefing ties for the first reef at least. Best advice is to go out with a good sailer on other dusty days and learn your boat all over again. At 20+ kts it's a whole new deal! Good luck
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Jeff Walker
No fun :>(
I've had a few of those experiences during my last 30 years of sailing. Sorry to hear about yours but it makes for a good story once you get back safe and sound. I do a couple of things when I sail solo or with people that are new to the sport. I trade out my 145% genoa for my 110% working jib before we leave. The 110% is very durable and easy for one person to handle. It's very hard to get overpowered with just that sail flying and most of my guests don't like excessive heel anyway. As suggested, if I have to reef I tighten the jib and point up, turn on the autopilot (better than turning the helm over to a novice), loosen the main sheet until it luffs (also lessens the heel) and the jib gives me headway. At this point you can decide to reef or wait a minute to see if the wind will calm down. I've been out in 35 knots and this works pretty well with minimal panic from the crew. Not much you can do about the Atomic 4. I used to have one and could never really count on it working. The Universal Diesel replacements are a lot more forgiving with no carburetor or electrical distributor. Once it starts only the absence of fuel can stop it. I think you should congratulate yourself on getting the boat back safely and nobody was hurt. Sailing is a lifetime of learning and you just helped us all get smarter :>)
I've had a few of those experiences during my last 30 years of sailing. Sorry to hear about yours but it makes for a good story once you get back safe and sound. I do a couple of things when I sail solo or with people that are new to the sport. I trade out my 145% genoa for my 110% working jib before we leave. The 110% is very durable and easy for one person to handle. It's very hard to get overpowered with just that sail flying and most of my guests don't like excessive heel anyway. As suggested, if I have to reef I tighten the jib and point up, turn on the autopilot (better than turning the helm over to a novice), loosen the main sheet until it luffs (also lessens the heel) and the jib gives me headway. At this point you can decide to reef or wait a minute to see if the wind will calm down. I've been out in 35 knots and this works pretty well with minimal panic from the crew. Not much you can do about the Atomic 4. I used to have one and could never really count on it working. The Universal Diesel replacements are a lot more forgiving with no carburetor or electrical distributor. Once it starts only the absence of fuel can stop it. I think you should congratulate yourself on getting the boat back safely and nobody was hurt. Sailing is a lifetime of learning and you just helped us all get smarter :>)
R
Richard
Several ideas
The motor issue (have owned two A4 engines and still have the second). If properly maintained they will be very reliable! They are easier and cheaper to maintain than a diesel, but then it does require a physical person to maintain it. The most likely thing that happens in rough seas is sediment from the bottom of the tank clogs a jet in the carb. It is a pain to clean the carb in bouncing seas (been there and done that) so clean out the fuel tank and install a fuel filter and water seperator. Simple prevention... I would never have shook out the reef in 20+ knots of wind. If the tear was near the luff of the jib then run with it partially furled (if you have it). I recommend always carrying a spare sail anyway. I have run with about 4 square feet of jib before in strong winds. If running downwind you can run jib only. Lastly ways to point the boat into the wind. Any form of sea anchor would likely do the job for you. Since you had no jib heaving to was not an option. Get a long rope and tie a bucket, weighted life jackets, etc. Anything that would create drag and tie the rope to the bow. Not sure what you had to work with and I will assume it was too deep to anchor. The idea someone had about letting the main sheet go and the sail will point into the wind is good, but probably a last resort. When the winds are that strong the waves are getting larger and the deck is unstable, not to mention a boom flailing around. It is a good way to get hurt unless you can guarentee that your body is below the boom most of the time. If you have reefing lines led aft then it is no problem. Screw tying the three reefing lines on the boom till you are sailing again. Richard
The motor issue (have owned two A4 engines and still have the second). If properly maintained they will be very reliable! They are easier and cheaper to maintain than a diesel, but then it does require a physical person to maintain it. The most likely thing that happens in rough seas is sediment from the bottom of the tank clogs a jet in the carb. It is a pain to clean the carb in bouncing seas (been there and done that) so clean out the fuel tank and install a fuel filter and water seperator. Simple prevention... I would never have shook out the reef in 20+ knots of wind. If the tear was near the luff of the jib then run with it partially furled (if you have it). I recommend always carrying a spare sail anyway. I have run with about 4 square feet of jib before in strong winds. If running downwind you can run jib only. Lastly ways to point the boat into the wind. Any form of sea anchor would likely do the job for you. Since you had no jib heaving to was not an option. Get a long rope and tie a bucket, weighted life jackets, etc. Anything that would create drag and tie the rope to the bow. Not sure what you had to work with and I will assume it was too deep to anchor. The idea someone had about letting the main sheet go and the sail will point into the wind is good, but probably a last resort. When the winds are that strong the waves are getting larger and the deck is unstable, not to mention a boom flailing around. It is a good way to get hurt unless you can guarentee that your body is below the boom most of the time. If you have reefing lines led aft then it is no problem. Screw tying the three reefing lines on the boom till you are sailing again. Richard
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Bob Robeson
Mr. Murphy
Every heard of Murphy's Law that states what ever can happen will. Well I also believe in the domino theory where when things start going bad, they just keep getting worse. I have had to sail home a couble of times due to engine failures of one type or another. Getting home is the success. How you do it is the adventure. Good job having called the tow service and getting home safely. I am a memeber of tow boats US just in case. Bob
Every heard of Murphy's Law that states what ever can happen will. Well I also believe in the domino theory where when things start going bad, they just keep getting worse. I have had to sail home a couble of times due to engine failures of one type or another. Getting home is the success. How you do it is the adventure. Good job having called the tow service and getting home safely. I am a memeber of tow boats US just in case. Bob
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Melody Miller
Hey Jeff:
Jeff: You mentioned something about Universal Diesel replacement parts as they relate to the Atomic 4 engine. Are you saying that there is a way to convert this engine over to diesel? My Atomic 4 is a 97 and I really would like to work with it. However, if the gasoline engine is, by it's design, less reliable (e.g. sensitive to water) then forget it! Melody
Jeff: You mentioned something about Universal Diesel replacement parts as they relate to the Atomic 4 engine. Are you saying that there is a way to convert this engine over to diesel? My Atomic 4 is a 97 and I really would like to work with it. However, if the gasoline engine is, by it's design, less reliable (e.g. sensitive to water) then forget it! Melody
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Jeff Walker
A 1997 Atomic 4?
Hi Melody, I may be mistaken but I was not aware that Universal was still making Atomic 4's or that Catalina was putting them in their boats. Is yours a re-built engine? My 1983 Cat 30 was one of the first years they converted to the Universal M25 diesel (replacing the Atomic 4) and I thought all models after that had also gone to diesel. There are some basic differences with the engine blocks and other things that would prevent the conversion. Diesels combust fuel by putting it under very high pressure (no spark plugs). The heat release causes the mixture to ignite. This high pressure requires a stronger and thicker block and head to take the pressure. I liked the suggestion about putting in extra fuel filters and a water separator. In another boat I had with the Atomic 4, I had some electrical problems involving moisture in the distributor cap and excess water condensing into the carb. I know they are good engines if you service them regularly and make sure everything is relatively dry and protected. As a side note, diesels can also have problems if there is too much water in the fuel and tank sludge can clog the filter and stop the flow of fuel to the engine. Maybe someday they will invent the perfect marine engine (nuclear powered?) Best of luck, Jeff s/v Suzanne
Hi Melody, I may be mistaken but I was not aware that Universal was still making Atomic 4's or that Catalina was putting them in their boats. Is yours a re-built engine? My 1983 Cat 30 was one of the first years they converted to the Universal M25 diesel (replacing the Atomic 4) and I thought all models after that had also gone to diesel. There are some basic differences with the engine blocks and other things that would prevent the conversion. Diesels combust fuel by putting it under very high pressure (no spark plugs). The heat release causes the mixture to ignite. This high pressure requires a stronger and thicker block and head to take the pressure. I liked the suggestion about putting in extra fuel filters and a water separator. In another boat I had with the Atomic 4, I had some electrical problems involving moisture in the distributor cap and excess water condensing into the carb. I know they are good engines if you service them regularly and make sure everything is relatively dry and protected. As a side note, diesels can also have problems if there is too much water in the fuel and tank sludge can clog the filter and stop the flow of fuel to the engine. Maybe someday they will invent the perfect marine engine (nuclear powered?) Best of luck, Jeff s/v Suzanne
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Richard
1982 had and A4
A4 engines were last made in the late 1970s and catalina put them in till around 1982. It is impossible to 'convert' and A4 to a diesel. You will need to replace the fuel tank, exhaust, engine, wiring, etc to do the conversion. You might be able to keep your tank if you have a return fitting on it. Richard
A4 engines were last made in the late 1970s and catalina put them in till around 1982. It is impossible to 'convert' and A4 to a diesel. You will need to replace the fuel tank, exhaust, engine, wiring, etc to do the conversion. You might be able to keep your tank if you have a return fitting on it. Richard
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Melody Miller
1997 Atomic Four
Hi Jeff: I looked at the fact sheet on my boat and the surveyor's report. Both say a 1997 Atomic Four. Interesting. Melody Miller
Hi Jeff: I looked at the fact sheet on my boat and the surveyor's report. Both say a 1997 Atomic Four. Interesting. Melody Miller
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Melody Miller
It's the Little Things . .
Guys and Gals: It looks like what cause my Atomic Four engine to stall was a combination of two things- a loose connector from the distributor cap to the coil, and fouled distributor points. I was getting plenty of spark between points but apparently no spark was getting to the spark plugs. Reconnecting the wire between the distributor and coil, and filing the points with sandpaper allowed the engine to start. Glad it was not fuel line problems. The engine was fixed in time for me to sail into the Bay and see the 371 foot, four masted tall ship "Esmeralda " enroute to the Atlantic and on to New York Harbor. Cool. Thanks Melody
Guys and Gals: It looks like what cause my Atomic Four engine to stall was a combination of two things- a loose connector from the distributor cap to the coil, and fouled distributor points. I was getting plenty of spark between points but apparently no spark was getting to the spark plugs. Reconnecting the wire between the distributor and coil, and filing the points with sandpaper allowed the engine to start. Glad it was not fuel line problems. The engine was fixed in time for me to sail into the Bay and see the 371 foot, four masted tall ship "Esmeralda " enroute to the Atlantic and on to New York Harbor. Cool. Thanks Melody
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Bill Parks
Unreefing the main
Hi, You didn't mention if you were single handing or not. Unreefing is a lot easier with two aboard. I just gave my 1979 Cat 30 to my daughter when I got a Cat 36 in April. I've never encountered a time when I couldn't get my boat to head into the wind. Just sheet in the Main until the boom is amidships. You may end up tacking - but for a brief period the boat will be "head to the wind", and the luff under less tension. That's when you work on the halyard. You may have to do this several times, but eventually you should be successful in getting your main halyard all the way up. It can be done single handed - is easier with two. Good luck. By the way. My Atomic 4 was 21 years old when I gave it to my dau. Can't be converted to diesel. parts are available through Westerbeke - Universal's new owner. Mine ran like a charm when I left it. Keep the head clean so it doesn't overheat, change the plugs every year and they'll run forever. Good luck. Bill
Hi, You didn't mention if you were single handing or not. Unreefing is a lot easier with two aboard. I just gave my 1979 Cat 30 to my daughter when I got a Cat 36 in April. I've never encountered a time when I couldn't get my boat to head into the wind. Just sheet in the Main until the boom is amidships. You may end up tacking - but for a brief period the boat will be "head to the wind", and the luff under less tension. That's when you work on the halyard. You may have to do this several times, but eventually you should be successful in getting your main halyard all the way up. It can be done single handed - is easier with two. Good luck. By the way. My Atomic 4 was 21 years old when I gave it to my dau. Can't be converted to diesel. parts are available through Westerbeke - Universal's new owner. Mine ran like a charm when I left it. Keep the head clean so it doesn't overheat, change the plugs every year and they'll run forever. Good luck. Bill
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patrick boole
slab reefing
i have installed with miminal amount of work or money slab reefing. i have two lines. one come through the rear reef poing and tied to boom and then led along the boom to the mast where it is turned to the rear cabin through a spinl;ock. the forward line goes through the forward reef point and tied to boom. led and turned to rear of cabion to a spinlock. when i need to reef i lower main to preselected spot on main halyard and pull the two line from the reef points tight and clamp them off. raise the main tight and i am done. alll from the cockpit.
i have installed with miminal amount of work or money slab reefing. i have two lines. one come through the rear reef poing and tied to boom and then led along the boom to the mast where it is turned to the rear cabin through a spinl;ock. the forward line goes through the forward reef point and tied to boom. led and turned to rear of cabion to a spinlock. when i need to reef i lower main to preselected spot on main halyard and pull the two line from the reef points tight and clamp them off. raise the main tight and i am done. alll from the cockpit.
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