Bad (coffee) break?

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Tom S

Waffle I don't totally disagree. It just depends

Where and when you use closed cell foam (or even better Honeycomb) and where you use end grain balsa. I totally agree that in the old days of boat building they used marine plywood and over the years we have learned that end grain balsa is much better as it does not allow water to migrate horizontally. If I had all the money in the world I would probably have a Honeycomb composite for the hull if I made sure it was meticulously built with full epoxy through hull openings. It has been seen that the deck core foam has shown more compression defects over time. Yes its better than plywood for wood rot, but not nearly as good as end grain balsa for compression stability which turn out to be a bigger issues on decks over time. As this site says " Balsa has a lot of advantages that foam does not. For example, because of the exposed end grain, when you coat it with resin, the wood cells suck up that resin via the capillary effect and makes for an extraordinarily strong bond. It does not require any special adhesives as many, if not most, foams do." And there is more - like I said it really depends. So just saying foam is better is not necesarilly qualified. Remember - It depends He even make the argument "So it is that we end up with problems like this in foam cored boats that almost never appeared with balsa cored boats. Instead of making a boat better, it made it worse. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/core_materials.htm This guy goes so far as asking the question "Should Hulls Be Cored Below Waterline?" And then answers the question " I don't hesitate for a moment in saying no. Not with any kind of material. The risk is too high that something will go wrong, mistakes either by the builder, the owners of the boat, or someone working on " For extra reading and more perspective Here is some fun late night insomnia reading ;) http://www.balsasales.co.uk/ http://www.corecomposites.com/balsa.cfm?family_id=2 http://www.jcrocket.com/bulkheadtest.shtml
 
F

Fred

The others on this thread have covered

everything except; Foam comes in many strengths and densities. To say Foam is weak, or strong or whatever without specifications for the foam is to say nothing. There is foam strong and dense enough to bolt your chain plates through. I agree with the folks who say this is a hardware bedding problem. The toe rail and stanchions are prime suspects.
 
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
Water magic

Have you ever heard of a piece of kitsch called "The Drinking Bird"? It's not an illusion. Water can seep uphill. Now, I'm going to go contemplate how a hardware rebedding project fits into the spring schedule. Ross, would you go so far as to remove the caulking from the bottom of the rubrail to allow drainage, or just leave it be at this point? I hate not knowing what is going on behind/underneath stuff, places I cannot see.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I never caulk a place where water

drips out. Why would I want to keep it in. Water runs down and wicks up,sideways and through. But if it is dripping out you must find where it is getting in and stop it there. As to cores, foam, balsa, honeycomb, plywood and anything else you can think of.(don't you love my dangling prepositions?) When cores are properly used they are very good ways to strenghten a structure without adding significant weight. You must however recognize their limitations and work around them.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Yes caulk the top and leave the bottom...

Yes caulk the top and leave the bottom open!!
 
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
Hull Deck joint constuction

Maine Sail, What did you make of the photo of my hull/deck joint? It's not screwed from the side as yours is; it's through bolted. It doesn't really change the liklihood (or unliklihood) of water seeping by capillary action up and through the joint, but I'm curious. Is your hull deck joint screwed at the bow and bolted at midship? Is it a question of length of boat, or did Catalina change construction methods at some point?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Mine is through bolted too..

Those "screws" you see going through my hull are actually, counter sunk, flat headed machine bolts and not screws. The rub rail is mostly screwed but is through bolted as well about every second screw..
 
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