I just got a new 260. My previous boat was a Catalina 25. The new boat is great, but I do have a concern. As I look at the standing rigging it looks to me like if I should lose the forestay that the mast is coming down (and right into the cockpit). On my previous boat if I lost any one of the stays there were others that would support the mast. What I am considering doing is to put the line into the mast for a spinnaker (I don't have one and probably won't) and secure the end that comes out of the upper mast above the forestay to the bow pulpit. I figure that then if I should lose the forestay that the line will keep the mast from coming down until I can get back to port. Before I did this I figured I'd ask for advice from this forum to see if perhaps I had missed something in terms of this extra line causing more harm than good.(I do have a furler for the jib). I'm sure that the likelyhood of losing the forestay is small, but I am a great believer in 'belt and suspenders'. Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
- Status
Response
Does your boat have a furlex furler? If so simply relocated the jib halyard you use to raise the mast above the furler. It will still work to raise the mast and can now be used as a spinaker halyard. Very simple process while the mast is down. I've done this on my 98 H240. I have a cruising spinaker. I attach the halyard to the pulpit in the manner your talking about. Since purchasing the boat in 98 I've never had a problem with the forestay letting loose.
Does your boat have a furlex furler? If so simply relocated the jib halyard you use to raise the mast above the furler. It will still work to raise the mast and can now be used as a spinaker halyard. Very simple process while the mast is down. I've done this on my 98 H240. I have a cruising spinaker. I attach the halyard to the pulpit in the manner your talking about. Since purchasing the boat in 98 I've never had a problem with the forestay letting loose.
Agree w Ed A - Don't Use Pulpit
If you would know how the pulpit is attached - typically with some small (1/4-inch?) spot welded bolts in the base of each tube, you'd agree too. Ed A's advice is good - pick something more solid.
If you would know how the pulpit is attached - typically with some small (1/4-inch?) spot welded bolts in the base of each tube, you'd agree too. Ed A's advice is good - pick something more solid.
Bow Pulpit
On the 240 and 260 there is no toe rail. If you attach the halyard to the bow cleat it will interfere with the furler. If you are going to use this in an emergency because of forestay failure I'm sure you are going to be dropping sail. If the bow pulpit cant support the weight of the mast when not under pressure of sailing I would look for a new boat because it's not going support you when you get ready to fall overboard. Just my opinion
On the 240 and 260 there is no toe rail. If you attach the halyard to the bow cleat it will interfere with the furler. If you are going to use this in an emergency because of forestay failure I'm sure you are going to be dropping sail. If the bow pulpit cant support the weight of the mast when not under pressure of sailing I would look for a new boat because it's not going support you when you get ready to fall overboard. Just my opinion
Not a Problem
The rigging on the 260 is very solid and as long as you look at it occasionally to check for broken wires or corrosion (once a year) you should have nothing to worry about. (Do you drive tank so you won't worry about the wheels falling off? Forstay failure is about that likely.) Brigg
The rigging on the 260 is very solid and as long as you look at it occasionally to check for broken wires or corrosion (once a year) you should have nothing to worry about. (Do you drive tank so you won't worry about the wheels falling off? Forstay failure is about that likely.) Brigg
No need to worry
I wouldn't worry about the B&R rig and its 3 point attachment. It's a solid concept. Look at communications towers. They all use guy wires on 3 sides, not four. Having a backstay as your 4th point of might make you feel more secure, but probably doesn't make the rig less likely to come down. If you lose the forestay, then there must be a significant aft load on the mast, so the backstay isn't going to be of any use keeping it up. Minimizing rigging might actually make safer by reducing the number of parts that can fail. Kind of like the way aerospace engineers now design large commercial jets to have two engines instead of four. They used statistical analysis to determine what made for a safer jet and the answer was fewer engines. Fair winds, Ron Mehringer h26 Hydro-Therapy
I wouldn't worry about the B&R rig and its 3 point attachment. It's a solid concept. Look at communications towers. They all use guy wires on 3 sides, not four. Having a backstay as your 4th point of might make you feel more secure, but probably doesn't make the rig less likely to come down. If you lose the forestay, then there must be a significant aft load on the mast, so the backstay isn't going to be of any use keeping it up. Minimizing rigging might actually make safer by reducing the number of parts that can fail. Kind of like the way aerospace engineers now design large commercial jets to have two engines instead of four. They used statistical analysis to determine what made for a safer jet and the answer was fewer engines. Fair winds, Ron Mehringer h26 Hydro-Therapy
Fitting in Anchor Locker
I agree that the chances of the forestay failing are very remote, but, if you do see a problem developing, rig your gin pole as if you were raising or lowering the mast. The jib halyard and mainsheet will keep your mast up until you return to port.
I agree that the chances of the forestay failing are very remote, but, if you do see a problem developing, rig your gin pole as if you were raising or lowering the mast. The jib halyard and mainsheet will keep your mast up until you return to port.
Thank You
Thanks to all for your kind suggestions. I will give them consideration. To those who felt that I am over reacting to a potential problem, I would mearly point out that I have seen two posts on this site where people related having the mast come down due to the loss of the forestay and two other posts where they caught a problem in time that would have resulted in this problem. I have driven my car for 40 years and never had an accident ... but I still put on my seatbelt every time I drive. Thanks again for the input from all. Tim
Thanks to all for your kind suggestions. I will give them consideration. To those who felt that I am over reacting to a potential problem, I would mearly point out that I have seen two posts on this site where people related having the mast come down due to the loss of the forestay and two other posts where they caught a problem in time that would have resulted in this problem. I have driven my car for 40 years and never had an accident ... but I still put on my seatbelt every time I drive. Thanks again for the input from all. Tim
The Forestay is backed up.
Tim On a boat a little paranoia is healthy - this is a concern so check the fitting often. Realize as well that the forestay is backed up if you have the jib attached. Both the forestay and jib halyard would need to fail for the mast to come down.
Tim On a boat a little paranoia is healthy - this is a concern so check the fitting often. Realize as well that the forestay is backed up if you have the jib attached. Both the forestay and jib halyard would need to fail for the mast to come down.
I guess I should weigh in since
my wife and I appear to be the only H260 owners that have experienced a forestay failure. By the way, it is not fun to see the mast come down on top of you. This happened last July 4th, with winds of about 15 mph. We were sailing downwind at hull speed when the end of the forestay popped out of the mast and the jib came tumbling down. Of course, when that happened all rational thinking went out the window. As my wife climbed over the cabin to retrieve the jib out of the water, I made a big mistake. I had my daughter turn the boat into the wind. Dumb move. I should have had my wife connect the jib halyard to the bow and we would have been fine until we could get to the dock. As it was the mast came down as we turned and the pressure in the main lessened. No one was injured, but my pride was seriously damaged and well as my confidence in the rigging. How did this happen? Well after some study, it appeared that the end of the forestay somehow twisted out of the slot, when the mast was likely forced forward (even thought the jib was full of air). A portion of the cable near the mast connection was bent (we still do not know exactly why). I still have our former forestay and I will try and post some pictures for your enjoyment sometime within the next couple of days. Total damage cost us $100 or the price of a new forestay and its installation. I have also toyed with the idea of using the jib halyard as a forestay, but have yet to try it.
my wife and I appear to be the only H260 owners that have experienced a forestay failure. By the way, it is not fun to see the mast come down on top of you. This happened last July 4th, with winds of about 15 mph. We were sailing downwind at hull speed when the end of the forestay popped out of the mast and the jib came tumbling down. Of course, when that happened all rational thinking went out the window. As my wife climbed over the cabin to retrieve the jib out of the water, I made a big mistake. I had my daughter turn the boat into the wind. Dumb move. I should have had my wife connect the jib halyard to the bow and we would have been fine until we could get to the dock. As it was the mast came down as we turned and the pressure in the main lessened. No one was injured, but my pride was seriously damaged and well as my confidence in the rigging. How did this happen? Well after some study, it appeared that the end of the forestay somehow twisted out of the slot, when the mast was likely forced forward (even thought the jib was full of air). A portion of the cable near the mast connection was bent (we still do not know exactly why). I still have our former forestay and I will try and post some pictures for your enjoyment sometime within the next couple of days. Total damage cost us $100 or the price of a new forestay and its installation. I have also toyed with the idea of using the jib halyard as a forestay, but have yet to try it.
Pat, whether forestay is backed up....
...by the halyard depends on the furler. CDI furlers (the furlers most commonly found on Hunter water ballast boats) have an internal halyard which provides no backup for the forestay.
...by the halyard depends on the furler. CDI furlers (the furlers most commonly found on Hunter water ballast boats) have an internal halyard which provides no backup for the forestay.
I have the CDI Furler
I had considered using the jib halyard as Phil mentions, since it is of no use with the furler, however it comes out of the mast below the attachment for the forestay and I am pretty certain that it would interfere with the jib. I think I will rig the extra line through the opening for the spinnaker which is located above the forestay. Phil, it sounds fortunate that there was no injury and you suffered such small damage.
I had considered using the jib halyard as Phil mentions, since it is of no use with the furler, however it comes out of the mast below the attachment for the forestay and I am pretty certain that it would interfere with the jib. I think I will rig the extra line through the opening for the spinnaker which is located above the forestay. Phil, it sounds fortunate that there was no injury and you suffered such small damage.
Regarding Phil's commments
It sure sounds to me like your rig was way too loose. Did you use a loose gage to tension the shrouds? It is very important for the reliability of the rig to be properly tensioned. Ball park number to use if you don't have specific info is 20% of the breaking strength.
It sure sounds to me like your rig was way too loose. Did you use a loose gage to tension the shrouds? It is very important for the reliability of the rig to be properly tensioned. Ball park number to use if you don't have specific info is 20% of the breaking strength.
Quite the contrary, the general opinion
was that the rigging was too tight, causing the failure of the forestay end. My understanding is that the end of the forestay is designed to slide up and down in the slot in the mast and should not come out if it is loose. In my case the over-tensioned forestay likely caused the failure. So when the mast was pushed forward by the pressure in the mainsail, the forestay was able to "pop" out. Sorry, I forgot to take the pictures of the forestay end last night. I will eventually get it done.
was that the rigging was too tight, causing the failure of the forestay end. My understanding is that the end of the forestay is designed to slide up and down in the slot in the mast and should not come out if it is loose. In my case the over-tensioned forestay likely caused the failure. So when the mast was pushed forward by the pressure in the mainsail, the forestay was able to "pop" out. Sorry, I forgot to take the pictures of the forestay end last night. I will eventually get it done.
Side Note:
If you are unfortunate enough to have the mast come down, get out of the sternrail seats. the ends of the spreaders stopped about 6 inches above each seat.
If you are unfortunate enough to have the mast come down, get out of the sternrail seats. the ends of the spreaders stopped about 6 inches above each seat.
- Status