Baby stay or forward lower shrouds?

[Ray Bowles]

I want to be able to use an adjustable backstay on my 82 San Juan 23. This boat only has upper and lower shrouds and therefore the stick can't be bent. SJ uses alot of mast rake compared to my 80 C22.
The choice is either a babystay or lower shrouds mounted forward of the mast. Either solution is easy to install so I was looking for input from others that might have made this change.
I do use a tri-radial spinnaker on a pole.
A babystay would allow the use of my 50% jib as a staysail and that might be a kick just for the heck of it.
Thanks, Ray

 

[Richard Bryer]

From a SJ 24 perspective

The SJ24 uses a babystay. That has enabled me to put about 3 inches of bend in the mast with an adjustable backstay- the backstay is split about 7 feet up. We sail with about 5 inches of rake and anything up to 3" of bend up wind. The babystay is fixed.

Seems to me the babystay would be easier as it would not require additional chainplates for lower shrouds.

On the staysail topic- the babystay on the 24 is close enough to the mast that it would only fly a very small sail. I attached the pole downhaul to a short length of track and the car is adjustable. I have often thought of flying the mule- which is probably about 70% from it in a cutter rig. Maybe some night in the season when we are dead last and have nothing to lose in the protest room.

 

[RichH]

An alternative to consider..... *mast bending moment-arm* or mast 'bending crane' mounted at the top of the mast.
If your mast is sufficiently 'springy' an easy alternative is to weld a small (12-18") horizontal extension at the top of the mast. These work best with boat that have 'keel sttpped or 'restrained' masts (somewhat difficult on 'deck stepped' masts). The backstay terminates to a 4 or 6 part pulley system which is easily in reach of the helmsman. Just pull on the line to bend the mast. If the headstay is also tacked to a roller at the bow (adjustable length headstay with control lines back to the cockpit), with both these you can rake AND bend all at the same time, ... and 'on the fly'.

Look at http://www.inland20.org/BoatSpecs.aspx, look at the mast top to see an example of mast bending moment arm. The backstay goes to a thru-deck roller at the stern, to a 4 or 6 part block along the flooring, and then terminates to a cam cleat on both sides of the cockpit (like a 'gun tackle'). No individual backstay tensioner required ... just a bunch of rope and pulleys.


This might be easier than adding the necessary (underdeck) structural support needed for a babystay. Babystays are simple but need quite strong structural support at the deck/hull because of the 'trigonometric angles' involved ... for instance with the babystay intercepting the mast at an approximate 10 degree angle it will take ~10 times the load (in pounds) in the wire to get 1 lb. force perpendicularly/horizontally generated at stay's attachment to the mast. If you install a baby stay, run the attachment to the deck/hull - 'as far forward as possible'.

;-)

 

[Richard Bryer]

The SJs are little boats

The baby stay attachment on my 24 is backed by a ss plate about 2"X3" and it is about 24" from the mast base. I would like to see it a bit bigger but this is a <30' mast. The back stay adjuster is 3:1 and simply squeezes the split backstay together.

I find the adjustable bs very necessary on the 24- I am sure you will find the same on the 23- but keep life simple

 

[ted]

mast bend

I have a C&C 29 which has single lowers, a split backstay and a very powerful babystay. I tried putting a babystay on my previous boat which had double lowers but found that it was difficult to bend the mast on the fly. The tension in the aft lowers had to be reduced in order to get maximum mast bend. Otherwise you would be working against the aft lowers trying to get additional bend. The single lowers and babystay allow you to easily bend the mast on the fly without having to adjust the lowers. The down side is that the babystay gets in the way of the genoa when tacking. If you are racing, having a foredeck crew bring the genoa around the babystay is a faster way to tack. My babystay is easily removable from the deck chainplate by way of a snap shackle. This comes in handy going downwind as the babystay is an obstacle when gybing a genoa or spinnaker. I would recommend the babystay over additional lowers. Make sure you have a strong attachment point because the load will be a large when fully tensioned. If you don't have a bulkhead below the attachment point, you might want to consider installing a short adjustable cable and turnbuckle attached to the lower hull.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Thank You All, I'm going with the baby stay and will make it removeable. It appears that bulking up the area of the attachment and moving it forward enough are easily done. Again, thanks. Ray